Could I be a "soft" autumn? Difference between "soft" and "warm?" - YouLookFab Forum

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Could I be a "soft" autumn? Difference between "soft" and "warm?"

nancylee

Veteran

Suz's taupe discovery plus Astrid's recent post about colors and color palettes started me thinking about my own colors.

Way back in the 80's, when everyone was doing the seasonal color charts, mine was a hard case to figure out! I have highlighted blonde hair that tends toward mousey if I don't color it and golden brown/green hazel eyes. I think my skin tone is more warm than cool (pastels look horrible on me), and I am definitely low-contrast. My hair, skin, and eye color are very close, and I look much better in muted/mid-tone/neutral colors than I do in clear/bright colors.

On the Chic Fashionista website I came across the concept of "soft" color palettes, and I'm wondering if this is where I fall...specifically a "soft" autumn. Although, reading the descriptions again, I'm a little confused about what makes a coloring "soft" vs. "warm." Help?

http://www.thechicfashionista......lysis.html

Dressing

26 replies

Latest reply was from nancylee

Anonymous

I've spent quite a lot of time on that very page in that website Nancylee! I think soft means the colors are toned down a bit--not quite so saturated. When you look at a warm autumn, the "warmness" of her coloring would be the most remarkable thing about her (as opposed to the contrast she had or the clarity). FWIW, I think you *are* soft as opposed to clear. I'm not sure if your softness trumps your warmness though. How do the palettes compare to each other and to your closet?

My coloring has changed a lot over the years and I need to change my colors to compensate. Old habits die very hard though.

Anonymous

I want to say that because of your low contrast and soft hair color, you would fall into the soft category, like Drew Barrymore. You could probably easily borrow other colors from the warm palette too. It's not an exact science, that's for sure!

shiny

Veteran

I am no expert but my understanding is that the soft shades are "muddied" -- mixed with gray -- to mute them down and make them less bright/clear. These are also my best shades but I can still get away with the occasional bright color too, balanced by the softer shades.

Warm vs cool, in my opinion, has more to do with your skin tone than anything else. Do you have yellow undertone (warm) or pink/blue (cool)?

As an example, my best friend and I have very very similar coloring (we're often mistaken for sisters). Like you, we both have hair that is mousey if we don't color it. You can't tell by my photos but I actually have a LOT of red in my hair; my mother and sister are natural redheads, and my hairdresser has been dying to get me to go red. Right now my best friend is playing up the red in her hair and skipping the blonde highlights. She and I also both have hazel eyes.

Yet, she is warm (probably soft autumn) and I am cool. The difference is all in the skin. She and I used to wear the same foundation -- I forget the brand, but it is coded N for Neutral, W for warm, and C for cool. She once was visiting and forgot to bring hers, so borrowed mine, which at that time was "C." It looked like she'd smeared calamine lotion all over her face! (I later realized that "N" worked even better on me than C; in fact, I use this product that tones down the red in my face because I have a lot of it).

What's more, she and I have totally different lip color. Here lies another clue to whether one is warm or cool! The inside of my lips is very definitely in the "mauve" range and in fact I can reliably choose any mauve lipstick at the drugstore and it'll work on me. Whereas she goes with the peaches instead.

All that said... if I dye my hair darker to bring out the red, I have to completely overhaul my make up and my wardrobe, and wear warm autumn tones instead. My hairdresser says this is because I'm "neutral" -- and says I can pull off either. But honestly? I think I look better siding towards the cool and summer end of the range. Which is why I continue to lighten my hair.

Vix

Veteran

Hi Nancylee --

Soft is about saturation, warm references temperature.

Since those terms are often used with the Sci/Art system, I'm quoting what color analyst Christine at 12 Blueprints says:

>>Q: I am still confused with the terms “soft” and “muted” – what is the difference.

>>A: For our purposes, there isn’t one. They mean desaturated, closer to the pot of grey paint you started with before you began adding colour pigment. If the colour appears dusty, heathered, greyed, then it is called muted or soft.

Most important to always remember, colour is relative. Closer to grey compared to what? Wedgewood blue or electric sapphire? Compared to Bright Spring, True Spring is soft, but we don’t call True Spring’s colour low in saturation or muted.

Full text here: http://12blueprints.com/betwee.....rk-autumn/

*******

You really need to experiment to see how bright, how deep, how warm, and how cool you are. Sounds as if you've done a lot of that over the years, so it may come down to fine tuning.

As Claire says, if you need warmth more than softness you may want to look at other warm shades when building your closet. If soft more than warmth, you could look at Soft Summer.

Another color analyst, Shelley of 16seasons.com, explains her take on the above here:

http://16seasons.com/2012/09/your-best-friend-2/

Suz

(website)

Veteran

My guess is that "soft" or "muted" would be right for you, Nancy.

I believe there is some flexibility as long as you find your general range -- warm or cool, first, and as Jennifer (Shiny) says, checking inside of lips is a great way to figure that out. Like her, I can pick almost any fuchsia or rose and it will work with my natural lip colour, whereas peaches and salmons look hideous on me.

By the way..."summers" do NOT necessarily look good in pastels. Quite the contrary. I am classified as a cool or true summer and the only pastels I can wear are pale but not icy blues or pinks, and I can only wear those in the summer when I have some tan. If I wore them in the winter I would look invisible.

nancylee

Veteran

Claire, Shiny, and Vix, you all have imparted a boatload of wisdom on this whole color palette topic.....and I'm starting to get a glimmer of understanding re "warm" v. "soft." But I have to confess that my head is spinning a little!

Vix, I am going to set aside some time later in the week to study the 12 Blueprints theories and try to wrap my head around them! I feel like I have some sort of mental block about this color thing. For the time being, I am able to grasp (somewhat!) Shelley's 16season system. So, by her definitions:

I am definitely "muted" and not bright/clear.
I am definitely "light" and not dark.
I am PROBABLY more toward the warm scale than the cool, although this is where things get murky.

To Claire's point, I don't know if my "warm" qualities are strong enough to trump my "muted" qualities. Hmm. I think I'm somewhere on the spectrum between the two, and my highlighted hair confuses matters. Like Shiny I think I'm something of a "neutral."

More study and experimentation is in order, I think.......

nancylee

Veteran

Suz, we posted at the same time! Thanks for weighing in. I think we share a lot coloring-wise, and I've always thought that you are more on the cool end and I'm more on the warm.

HOWEVER, your comment about summers not necessarily looking good in pastels has me thinking. I've always used that argument to plead my "warm" coloring case! Hmm.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

When you're draped in a colour analysis, they pull your hair completely away from your face and cover it so it doesn't confuse matters. So many of us colour our hair (not always in flattering tones...and even if they start out great, the colour fades, etc. - I'm talking about myself today right this minute!) Anyway, the point is, it's best to go with the skin tones.

People in the mid-range can be confusing to the analysts. The woman who analysed me thought I might be an autumn when I walked in. She quickly changed her mind about that, but she imagined I would be a "soft" summer due to my fair skin and hair. Turned out I was "cool" so the very opposite of the "warm" she'd first pegged me as!

shiny

Veteran

I really like Vix's explanation and that link she provided; it explains why there are some autumn colors I can wear. Looking at that chart, it makes me even more certain I am primarily a soft summer, with soft autumn as my "best friend." Because all the other summer pairings don't work... a lot of true winter colors look horrid on me, and spring colors are the worst.

That said, I'd prefer less, rather than more, colors to choose from. Because my closet explodes if I allow myself to build the warm colors into it.

Pastels are the reason I did not want to be a summer, back in the 80s!! They look so ... baby-ish and cutesy... or little old lady. Although yes I admit they are flattering on me.

deb

Veteran

When the color discussions started popping up I found this site which helped me understand soft color.

http://www.prettyyourworld.com/colortheory.html

shiny

Veteran

Nancy, another question is to ask which you look better in, silver or gold? I wear both but hands down, silver looks better than gold. Silver = cool; gold = warm.

You've got me thinking now about my daughters. The youngest has blonde hair and blue-blue eyes. We wear very similar colors, she looks smashing in pastels, pinks, blues, purples. She is summer for sure. The oldest has caramel/Jennifer Anniston blonde hair (often dyed red, which looks amazing on her), and blue-blue eyes. She wears muted summer shades -- but also looks great in a fair amount of autumn colors -- and wears gold better than silver. Both girls have noticeable blue to their skin.

nancylee

Veteran

Shiny, gold is definitely the better metal for me. I almost never wear silver jewelry, and feel a little "off" when I do. This is another reason I feel I skew toward the warm end of the spectrum. That said, I still don't think my "warm" factor outweighs my "soft" factor.

The whole Jennifer Aniston comparison is intriguing. When I started pinning on Pinterest, my first pins were ALL of Jennifer Aniston in muted neutral outfits. More evidence that maybe I'm a soft autumn........

Vix

Veteran

Hi Nancylee --

Glad we are giving you some tools to hopefully help you!

I always think it's helpful to realize that there are a lot of different color systems out there, including ones which pull from one's body colors in micro detail.

Sci/Art (12 Blueprints and others) is just one system, and it's one that's worked well for many...but it has certain parameters for the 12 "color spaces" and it plunks one in a palette. Borrowing from other of their palettes is a no-no.

FWIW, both the Soft Autumn (neutral leaning warm) and Soft Summer (neutral leaning cool) palettes are approved for silver and gold tone jewelry.

Soft palettes below -- colors vary online blah blah -- are from Elea Blake's pinterest. You may want to browse the makeup/clothing pairings by season to see what resonates with your experience.

http://pinterest.com/eleablake/

Personally, I respond best to color systems that are structured to allow for flow as I seem to be able to wear a mix of traditionally defined "summer" and "winter" shades -- cool is great on me, cool but too bright/dark/muted is not-so-good. It's one the reasons I really like Shelley's explanation of best friend shades.

You could experiment with pulling together items you know you glow in and seeing what zone(s) they seem to fall into. I did that using online representations of some of the Sci/Art shades (yes, rule-breaking...photos #3 and 5).

I'd also be looking for the level of contrast you can take in printed/patterned items.

I can go a lot lighter in background or overall "read" than I'd originally thought when darker tones are there too. As a pale brunette I know higher contrast looks are ok on me, but I thought I'd have to play in the darker end of my personal spectrum with SOME light mixed in when really it works both ways (photo #4). IMO, anyway!

Anyway: You may find you need to keep your contrast low or medium or you may surprise yourself!

ps Not to confuse/derail, but FWIW most analysts "armchair" type Jen Aniston as a Summer. She does tend to wear the lighter Summer-y shades a lot unless she's in black...and I prefer her in them. When she goes too gold/yellow I generally think she can do better. /judge-y

[Also, remember nature made her a dark brunette, so she's actually pretty high contrast.]

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Suz

(website)

Veteran

Pssst....Jennifer Aniston is a soft or muted SUMMER...

She looks great in taupe. Hmmm. Maybe *I* should be pinning her on my board. But I never have! Sheesh. <hangs head in embarrassment>

ETA: hangs head in further embarrassment having only now read Vix's comment! Sorry for the doubling up.

I agree with Vix, FWIW. I think JA looks best in those cool lights.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Also, I agree with Vix that those systems that allow for flow and individual variation are more congenial to me.

I also find it more helpful to look to those colours that make me glow vs. carrying a wallet of colours around with me, although I have a pretty good intuitive grasp of colour, so can usually guess pretty accurately.

Having said that, getting my colours "done" was a good thing in that it reminded me of a whole family of colours I'd forgotten about as possibilities for me - plums.

nancylee

Veteran

Vix and Suz..thanks. You've given me a lot to consider. (JA = Soft Summer..got it!) But....well....this whole topic of color palettes is MASSIVELY confusing to me. *sigh*

I guess the only way to get to the bottom of it all is to go through my wardrobe piece by piece and analyze what works best and what is just so-so and WHY. As much as I long for it, there's no easy fix or simple explanation to what colors work best. You just have to go deep and analyze, and then analyze some more. *double sigh*

Well......it's late and I'm feeling overwhelmed so I'm going to put this whole wardrobe color issue to bed for today. (*buries head in pillow and wishes that she were the happy-go-lucky sort with no pathological need to analyze her wardrobe to death*)

Anonymous

I'm late posting in this thread, but want to say that I'm a Summer who looks awful in light colors. The only way a light color works for me is if it's mixed in a print with darker colors. I figured this dreadful truth out after being draped and told I was a Summer, only to discover that the pastels in the palette prompted people to ask me if I was feeling okay. I do find the expanded color analysis system a lot more helpful than the original 4-season system. Lora Alexander at http://www.prettyyourworld.com says to start by eliminating the dominant seasons you're NOT, and that the only seasons who are truly warm or cool are the ones whose coloring is completely warm or cool. That is to say, if you're a warm, then your skintone and your hair color and your eye color must all be warm. Same with cool. If not, then scratch those seasons off your list. She has more information on her website. Other useful websites are http://www.12blueprints.com and http://www.stylemakeovers.com.

After much trial and error (mostly error, lol), I figured out I'm actually a Soft Summer. I think it helps to have a swatch book as a reference, and I carry one in my purse, but I know the items I buy don't have to exactly match the swatches. As long as they blend, I'm on the right track. I rarely make color mistakes now, mostly because of awareness of what looks best on me, but also because I've learned to trust my own judgement.

Vix

Veteran

Here Nancylee, have a drink to regroup....

I'd say that pro analysts are a shortcut, but from my color forum experience it seems the analytical types end up doing several consults over the years and doing lots of experimentation anyway. So for you it might only be a jumping-off point vs a one and done.

Assuming you are on the DIY path, though, you really can step away from the palettes a bit once you have a general understanding of the general categories personal color systems use to help people rule colors out or in.

Especially if you don't have one -- or more -- palette in hand when shopping/analyzing!

In addition to my own trials, I've shopped with friends who are trying to build color-capsule-based wardrobes and IMO you will be looking foxxxxy if you know:

* how to identify the stinkers and mega-winners

* when to walk away from a so-so item (the toughest for me/many!)

* how to "cheat" with the passable-but-not ideal colors (show more skin, pair with your winners via scarf/top/blazer/bold necklace etc)

[What with the usually horrid lighting, shopping in a winner or dragging along a scarf or top that you know looks great on you can really help.]

I believe it was Claire who had us all remembering that even if we are armed to the teeth with our most fabulous swatches and know how to recognize "the colors in between the colors," the manufacturers may not be aligned.

So if you want to do the color thang, the above really helps.

[And sure, lately I've gotten around what's in the market by having 2-4 clothing items per year made locally, but I need the above tips even more when I'm in Ye Olde Fabric Shop!]

Good luck -- and remember, there are enough hardcore color folks on this board to help you characterize "good, ok, bad" if you need us. Though IME the votes will sometimes differ, ha.

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Anonymous

I agree that store lighting is problematic. Shopping online is equally as difficult. When I placed my CWC order for Fall, I relied mostly on the catalog they sent me in the mail. The colors in the catalog turned out to be accurate. Also, what often helps me is to search for garments in a certain color, say red. Once all the red tops show up, I can compare and see which reds are light, which are dark, which are fully saturated, which are muted, etc. Lastly, reading online reviews sometimes helps. When I ordered that "casis" blouse, what tipped the scale for me was a reviewer who said the color looked dull. That was my cue that the color would probably work for me, and I was right. Now before you ask why I'd ever want to buy a dull color, it's because muted colors only look dull when they're paired with bright colors. When your entire wardrobe is filled with muted colors, they look beautiful when worn together. They don't look dull. They just look soft. I like to think of "soft" or "muted" as toned down rather than dull. Hope this helps!

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Right...and it also depends on the reviewer's colouring. Something will look "dull" if it doesn't suit the wearer.

Nancy, I hear you on how confusing all the written materials are. Some of what the various colour theorists say seems contradictory and some of the recommended palettes include different colours (for example, in the one I received there is NO yellow, even though I notice a soft yellow in the ones Vix linked to...which is just as well, because I've never found a yellow I can wear, at least not since I was three). And you don't see any taupe in those summer palettes (although some systems do include it). In other words, it's not as much of a science as it is an art. Which is good news, in the end. Once you find some colours that you are CERTAIN of, then you can look to these systems for guidelines about what else might work.

Anonymous

The various color analysis systems are indeed different. I found I'm most happy with the swatch book I ordered from http://www.stylemakeovers.com The one I recently received from Lora Alexander has some pale colors I know for a fact I can't wear. Also, her swatches are not fabric, so it's more difficult to see the actual colors. Fabric DOES affect the way color looks. My CMB swatch books look accurate, but I'm not a fan of the 4-season system, so I have those only for reference; the CMB books include the names of the colors. My decision to go with the http://www.stylemakeovers.com swatch book was simple: it contains all the colors I already wear. Interesting how what's already in my closet corresponds to a swatch book, eh? You'd think it would be the other way around--buy the clothing to match the swatch book. Instead, I've been purchasing clothing colors that I know flatter me, and they just happen to go with that particular Soft Summer swatch book. My makeup does, too.

So go ahead and experiment. It really is the only way to know. That said, I like having a swatch book in my purse for reference.

nancylee

Veteran

Ruth, VIx, and Suz, thanks for talking me down off the color anxiety ledge!

Vix, you are just too funny. I enjoy reading your posts as much for their cleverness as for their wisdom. I am indeed on the DIY track as of now, so I am going to take your advice and familiarize myself a bit more with the color palettes and also focus on identifying winners and losers and so-so colors for me.

Ruth, thanks for the links and for sharing your experience. I just took the stylemakovers.com quiz and came up as a Soft Autumn (which has been my suspicion about my coloring). That said, I could be identifying myself all wrong!

One of your observations really resonated with me: "When your entire wardrobe is filled with muted colors, they look beautiful when worn together. They don't look dull. They just look soft." I think I needed to hear this, since I was developing some confusion over soft vs. muted....and also feeling a little disappointed about what seemed like limited options for me color-wise. Thanks!

Suz, thanks for the therapy. It really is more of an art than a science....and as writers we sure know how much trial and error THAT involves! *sigh*

Onward!

Anonymous

Glad I could help, Nancylee. I've had several "duh" moments about color analysis, which I'll share with you now:

Since I didn't look good in light colors, my MIL advised me to wear darker colors. I did, but instead of gravitating towards soft colors, I went for Winter colors. This was because I didn't know about the 12-season system at that time. All I knew (from being draped) was that I look horrible in warm colors. I figured I just needed to wear Winter colors, which are also cool like Summer. That didn't help, and all I could think of was that my colors needed to be toned down.

My hairdresser in NM said she thought I was a Spring, so I tried that for a short while. Short because I quickly realized how overpowering the clear bright colors are on me.

Back to the drawing board.

I discovered the 12-season system and started eliminating the seasons I knew didn't work for me. I ended up with Soft Summer. I didn't have a swatch book at that time, so I just started shopping for colors that were not too light, not too bright, not too dark, and not too warm. I also remembered what that color analyst told me so many moons ago--that I could easily wear dark colors; they just needed to be muted. I was so young and unquestioning back then that it never occurred to me to ask her exactly what she meant by that. But now that I've experimented with my makeup and wardrobe colors, I realize she was right.

Oh, and somewhere along the line I figured out I actually need a warm foundation color (my skintone is neutral) with a neutral rose colored blush--that pink that's neither warm nor cool and goes with everything. It's the same color as the pink in my fingertips. Right now I wear Jane Iredale Amazing Base in "Warm Silk" and Jane Iredale pressed powder blush in "Parfait" or "Dubonnet."

Too bad it took me about 20 years to figure all this stuff out, but I guess it's better late than never, and along the way I did manage to wear the right colors from time to time in spite of myself. LOL!

Hope this helps! Enjoy the journey of self discovery, and let us know where you end up colorwise.

Lyrebirdgully

Thanks to Nancylee for starting off a great discussion, and what great comments from all the contributors here- Vix, Suz, Clearlyclaire, Shiny and Ruth. I've learnt a lot already following the finer points, and also from reading those links (thanks folks, they are new to me). Loved the "friends" concept , ( thanks Vix!) which pretty much describes what I do with my colours already. Looking forward to the next discussion!

Anonymous

It also helps to know what to look for. I know I'm in the wrong color if my skin looks washed out (pale like I'm sick) or gray or yellow (sallow like I have jaundice), or if the color makes me (my personal coloring such as my eyes) look dull.

nancylee

Veteran

Thanks for weighing in again Ruth...and Lyre for joining the discussion.

I did some research/musing yesterday, and am starting to understand the warm v. soft distinction a little better. Will post more later...maybe in a new post.