Confused about long waisted vs short waisted. (Diane G?) - YouLookFab Forum

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Confused about long waisted vs short waisted. (Diane G?)

Peri

Veteran

I've always heard these terms but it seems confusing what they mean. I will think I understand and then run across someone who uses them in the opposite way from what I think.

I know I am long torso overall. But that isn't the same as long vs short waisted, is it?

From shoulder to waist I am 16 inches and from waist to crotch, 13 inches. Well, that seems like an exceptionally long rise to me, proportionally speaking, since I'm not that tall, only 5' 5". Maybe that's why I have trouble finding comfortable pants?

Anyway, that means my waist hits at just a bit lower than half my torso. Do I say I'm long waisted because I am long from crotch to waist, or do I say I'm short waisted because I'm not that long from waist to shoulder? Even though the top half is really 3 inches longer, it seems less of a deal than that long rise I've got going.

Of do I say I'm nuts to think of stuff like this?! I'd just like to understand what people mean when they say long or short waisted, just to help with finding good fits. And Diane G, if you read this, from your seamstress experience, is that 13 inches freakish for someone who isn't like 5' 10" or more? When I say I want something to have a longer rise, I don't mean I want it to come up to my waist. I mean I want it to sit right at hip bone level and go down longer from there. I don't know how to explain that!

One thing to add...thank you Angie for YLF where I can actually talk about stuff like this!

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18 replies

Latest reply was from gardenchick

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Peri, have you tried Imogen's proportion measuring exercise? It's pretty enlightening. If also, admittedly, confusing! or some reason the actual page is not loading for me now, but if you go here: http://www.insideoutstyleblog.com.au and then look under "proportions" you'll find the video where she gives the instructions.

I came away with the surprising information (to me) that I am actually a bit short-waisted (something I never knew). http://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/who-knew-1

And not as short-legged (proportionately) as I imagined -- just shorter calved! Oh -- and I have, apparently, a disproportionately huge head, which sort of skews all my measurements.

My measurement from shoulder to waist is around 15" and from waist to crotch about 12" and I am about 5'4". For whatever that is worth. Yet I have often felt "long in the rise" and it is a reason that pants have sometimes been a difficult fit in the past, especially if poorly cut or when I am at a higher weight. I think our hip bones can be placed differently also (in addition to rise length) so that is another factor. I've recently learned that some LOW rise jeans are surprisingly comfortable for me. But they have to be cut higher in the back, with a curved waistband.

Anonymous

I also have a long torso, a short waist and a long rise. If you can't talk about this crazy stuff here, where can you? It affects me the most when the waist of a dress or trench is a lot higher than my actual waist. It feels sort of funny, but it actually looks okay because it makes my leg line look longer.

catgirl

Veteran

Ok, this STILL confuses me! Claire if you are short waisted then wouldn't the waistband of a dress always hit lower than your waist? Does short refer to from the neck down or the hips up? And how does this relate to low or high waist? Can you have a short low waist?

Aren't you all glad I'm back and still dense as ever?

Aida

Veteran

Una I was thinking the same thing! I'm a bit short waisted (determined solely through visual means) and dresses very often hit higher than my waist. Normal torso length though. I think the shortness refers to where the waist is in relation to the bust, so the top half. The bottom half is the rise.

EDIT: Gah I meant LOWER than my natural waist, duh :p

Peri

Veteran

Yep, that's why I'm confused! I hope we can get the official word!!

I'm going to check Suz's link when I have time. Maybe the official definition is there!

Diana

Veteran

I use Angie's definition.

http://youlookfab.com/2007/07/.....t-waisted/

http://youlookfab.com/2009/06/.....g-waisted/

Basically, distance between your shoulders and natural waist. I am extremely short waisted and waistbands are generally too low for me on dresses, cropped tops hit too low, etc. According to the Imogen exercise I am short both from shoulder to bust, and bust to waist. I could see that confusion occurs when one of these measurements is long and one is short, but I think in terms of clothing fit it is the overall length (as in Angie's definition) that is most important.

I think people who are more rectangle shaped have more wiggle room here because their natural waist is not so well defined. Being a pear/hourglass, there is no mistaking where my natural waist is and it is high.

I have a normal length rise though. My torso overall is short and my legs are long.

Gigi

Veteran

I use "short-waisted" to refer to the distance between your shoulder and your natural waist. This is an important measurement because if you are significantly short in this measurement, tops in the misses' department are going to have the waist positioned too low for you. This means that said tops will have their waist fall more on your hips—just where a person is widening out! This creates an ill-fitting top. That is one of the big differences of petite-sized clothing: the waist hits at a higher spot on the garment than in misses' clothing. (I have to buy exclusively petite-sized clothing because I have a very short waist, and misses' tops always look frumpy on me.)

As far as overall proportions go, the book The Triumph of Individual Style had a quick-and-easy way to assess this. You take your height (in your case, 65 inches), and you divide it into 8 pieces (=8.125). The "perfectly proportioned" breakout is that your head is 1 piece, your chin to natural waist is 2, your waist to crotch is 1, your crotch to knee is 2, and your knee to base of foot is 2. According to these measurements, your waist is almost perfectly positioned on your torso, but you do have a longer rise. In fact, I think your rise matches E's—I remember her saying one time that her rise was 20% of her entire height, and that seems to match your measurements also.

I have a long head, a short torso, a long rise, short thighs, and "perfect" calves. I'm not sure anyone would come out of this exercise unscathed. The authors of the book point out too that if everyone matched this ideal (which they don't even call the "ideal" but the "easy-to-dress figure"), things would be very boring. Our body shapes are part of what makes us unique persons.

Gigi

Veteran

Oh, and you're not nuts. Because if you are nuts, then the rest of us are too.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

I could have written Diana's whole post. I've also come to realize that my thighs are long -- not only is my height in my legs, it's mostly in my thighs. Oh, and I have a little pin head, which makes all of me look larger than it is in photos.

catgirl

Veteran

Aida, so glad you clarified! I was all "Whaaa....?"

Peri

Veteran

So that was some of my confusion...I thought the area being defined as long or short was crotch to waist, not waist to shoulders.

But, I'm going to have to read those links. Because by this understanding I'd consider myself short waisted (where I always thought long), so I should be joining some of you in saying the waist of dresses fall too low on me. NO!!! They are always too high.

Still more to study.

And Gigi, thanks for doing math for me!

E

Veteran

As Gigi mentioned, I have a very long rise too! I don't remember the measurements right now, but luckily Gigi does. I'm 63 inches, so 20%=12-13" on 5'3" me. I'm also long waisted, at least compared to clothing manufacturers: dress waist lines always hit above my natural waist, which drives me nuts, because my rib cage (where it inevitably hits) is much broader than my true waist. Jacket waist lines are similarly too high up. And this is in regular sizes even though I'm technically a petite! (Oddly enough, vintage clothes usually have the waistline in the right place though. Maybe because they use princess seaming instead of one straight line?) I can't remember if the measurement exercise Gigi mentions dinged me as long waisted, but for Imogen's test, I can easily fit 3 hand widths in there. I suppose all that torso length means my organs will never be squished. lol

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Gigi, that was helpful -- I had forgotten the breakdown. Where I get most messed up is with my long head. But I also have a long rise (technically). I am long from chin to bust but short from bust to waist -- it is the mid bust to waist measure that makes you technically "short-waisted."

E -- I join you in LONG rise club. I am basically the same height, maybe an inch taller -- with the same rise.

Anonymous

I'm here! Just got back from a four day break in Wales (UK) with no Wi-Fi, so I'm trying to get to speed. I hope what I write makes sense as I have 'switched off' brain

Ok, so firstly, waist length is measured from nape of neck at back to natural waist line at back and I have found over the years of measuring people for the average to be about 15 or 16 inches.

From crotch to navel is the rise and I too measure 13 inches Peri and I'm 5'5 and a bit. Where problems can arise with trouser fit can be our own proportions in comparison to other measurements on our bodies, like you mentioned with the short or long neck to waist measurement and also leg length etc. Other factors can affect trouser fit, like how far below where your ribs end do your hip bones come? or do you have a pelvic tilt and do you tuck your tail bone under or out? Lots of factors to consider. I have a strange shape and I have to alter crotch seams in my trousers like the photo below. The red line indicates what would be the new stitch line. I think I am lower at the back and my actual crotch point is more forwards than central. I also have what we in the UK call a low slung bum!

In my opinion I'm surprise anyone can ever find trousers which fit as comfortable as they should. I can make my own, but I still have a hell of a problem to get my fit right!

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April

Veteran

"Long-waisted" is one of those things that you can see visually far easier than you can explain what it means. You know how some people are described as having a swan neck? I think of long-waisted ladies as having swan waists. The narrow part goes on and on before the hip area chimes in.

E

Veteran

Ohhh, April I'm going to think of my torso as swan waisted from now on. Thanks so much for such a beautiful image.

Peri

Veteran

Thanks for all the combined wisdom and knowledge! I'm in a rush this morning but I'm going to come back in the afternoon and study this!

gardenchick

Veteran

This is a helpful thread, and I need to start running some calculations--and get one of those soft tape measures!

I have always thought of myself a short waisted because it seems visually that my legs are longer and my top is shorter. Also I have a big challenge with the fit of tops-it feels like 90% of them don't fit right...which has led me to the conclusion that I don't have those easy-to-fit proportions.