This reminds me of a number of years back when I ordered, well it must have been at least a dozen pairs of white jeans from Zappos, and only kept 1 pair. But they were so worth the hunt!

Thanks for the commiseration, ladies.

Suz, if I was after BF jeans, I'd give those a try. They look like my fab KUTs.

Gryffin, I read your question a few times, but don't understand what you mean. Would you like to know about fabric or fit?

Suz, not sure if you're a Gap fan, but I just got cropped white skinnies from Gap that, to me, are a little looser than a skinny without being straight. Which is odd because they are the same (supposedly) cut and size as dark-wash skinnies I just got from there that are decidedly skinny ... anyways just thought I'd mention them fwiw!

UmmLila, thanks for the suggestion. Those jeans don't look bright white, despite their potential.

Sorry to be unclear Angie. I'm trying to discern skinny jeans that feel like denim vs jeggings (stretch elasticized pseudo denim form the description). I used to think any jean made of stretch denim like material that is meant to fit like a legging would be marked jeggings. That's not the case now. What I'm trying to be able to separate is a jegging (stretch legging jean) from real denim which has body and shape and when you size up looks and feels like denim not stretch elasticicized denim looking legging material. We be bought 98% cotton that was real denim and 98% "denim" that was stretch stuff. How do you tell from description or fiber content? Even from the madewell reviews no one mentioned that these had sooo much stretch and skin tight fit despite sizing up. I know girlfriends or straights will have more body but some is still much to elastic and thin. Is it all trial and error or am I missing crucial descriptors or fiber information

AHA, got it. Gryffin, I wish I knew the answer because that's exactly what I'm trying to do. Most jeans are jeggings these days. You used to be able to distinguish the look from the online photo - but not anymore. Look what just happened to me...

Angie, I was going to say that they are a little slimmer than true BFs, at least on me, but now that I look at the photos (at least some of the photos) they do seem like a BF fit, more or less.

Though to be honest, it somewhat depends on the day...they fit more snugly right out of the wash and do stretch a bit. And perhaps because I am a few pounds up (since these photos were taken) they feel snugger.

And the rise is definitely "mid" on me. (It would be higher on you, though!)

The Cara is another style to try if you want a higher rise slim cigarette style ankle. (It comes in optic white as well). But I feel the waist is a bit too high, at least on the pair I got (though it does not look high on the model). It looks fine on me... I think...but feels a bit off. Maybe I should have sized up...they fit, but are not so comfy...too "girdling" in the midsection for my taste.

Rises are so difficult. What is high enough for one is too high for another and too low for still another! You really have to experiment, I find.

I like the rise on the Rockets better, but they are a true skinny. Sigh....

TG, thanks -- I will order a pair to try them!

I'm having this fabric content problem with my husband too. He prefers for his pants to have no stretch whatsoever, because stretch feels weird to him, but it's becoming increasingly popular in men's pants and jeans. Not every website lists fabric content, so I (since I help him online shop as I'm better at it) had to find things that were specifically listed as 100% cotton. It's even trickier with women's pants and jeans, though. I think I'm also finding that the best way to know is whether "stretch" is in the name of the item or in the description or not. FWIW, Levi's is good at describing fabric content.

Also, Gryffin, I hear you loud and clear!!!

I want exactly what you want -- jeans that feel like jeans, not like jeggings. No matter what the cut. I have found that certain brands tend to be closer to this ideal in their fabrications than others, but it is not absolute and even within makers some styles will turn out to be more like jegging material than others -- and you cannot even tell from the description of the fabrication. I read the reviews like crazy and see what people say.

For me, Citizens are mostly (but not invariably) more "jean like" and Rag and Bone are also mostly (but not invariably) more "jean like."

I know just what you are saying about sizing up. If you size up in the jegging like material, all you get is a terrible fit, elephant skin lines on the backs of your legs (instead of a smooth line). If you size up in denim-like material, you get a slightly looser but still structured/ tailored fit.

Exactly Suz. I just wish I could tell the difference. Otherwise I'm kind of stuck with the Gap Girlfriends for now. I do like the C/E Love let out the hem jeans. They are real denim. The old kuts diana I think are a little stretchy but still denim like. Like you, I prefer cigarette, slouchy or boyfriend skinny, straights but real denim. It's finding it that's the problem!! I used to love Lucky jeans but they changed to stretch denim and I won't even bother trying them on any more. Shame they fit me very well....

I still have the Kut Catherine which are still good in some said, but are reall too low in rise. I think I would like a “ slim BF” type style, very slightly slouchy but trim, but denim , to have more substance than a chino.

Angie - thank you. I missed you reply. I always feel like I'm totally inept and uninformed when I made these mistakes. But it's even worse, when someone as knowledgeable as you can't tell without trying, there's just something wrong with the system when that happens!!

Gryffin, exactly. It's a real challenge. Maybe we should have a "real denim" thread. There are, of course, some 100% cotton denim jeans out there, but I guess we're looking for the holy grail of a tiny bit of stretch yet a denim feel.

I agree with you about the old Kut Diana's.

I haven't tried the GF jeans from Gap but will do so thanks to your recommendation. They didn't work on my child so I had sort of ignored them. But my child has a different shape from me so maybe I'll be in luck!

I sorted out the overstuffed jeans section of my closet yesterday, trying on each pair on for look and (especially) comfort. Every legging-tight pair went on the "no" pile except one super-soft and stretchy black pair I use as leggings under long tops or dresses. I'm only comfortable these days in straight-leg or slim-boyfriend style, so I can imagine your disappointment with the too-close fit in the calf. I'm very glad NOT to be looking for white jeans this season, as I happened on a beautiful pair of Loft white straight-legs while thrifting at the end of last Summer. Not sure whether this style is still available: Loft Curvy Skinny (though not particularly curvy or skinny on me) and 98% cotton, 2% spandex, bright-white, non-see-through. They look brand-new and fit perfectly, and one white pair is enough for me, so that's that. Good luck with your search, Angie!

Suz, those white jeans are the bomb. Like my white KUTS, from a few years ago (see Find). If ONLY I could repeat them...and wish I did a few years ago. And those are high rise on me.

Gryffin, you are far from inept! We need to do a white jeans search together. I'kk have another go later.

Christina, lucky for hubs that you help him out.

Unfrumped, I love my KUT Catherines.

Tulle, than you. Good job attacking your jeans capsule. Loft cuts tend not to work on me, but they do AMAZING curvy cuts for clients - like Talbots.

Oh how frustrating. I saw your post and I had a dalliance with a pair of Boden white jeans before my retail exile (!).

The jeans were good but not quite good enough. I see you’ve put a few Boden items in the blog today. I wondered if you’d tried their jeans?

Thanks for sharing your experience. I really appreciate that you are picky about what you're looking for and that you demonstrate to us the value in identifying gaps and evaluating potential items based on your needs list.

Onwards....

I do think that the online desciptions and pictures for clothing have big scope for improvement - and terms are used so broadly (I think I know the difference between leggings, jeggings, skinnies and slim jeans but shopping for them the descriptions are all over the place)

My calves are muscular/bulky and I find this the crunch point with so many pants/jeans. A compressed calf is a horrible feeling!!

Oh my gosh, those Reese jeans are PERFECT!! Yes! That's exactly what I want. And 9 1/4 would be a fairly high rise on me, too (despite my long-ish rise...). I find I can go up to about 9 3/4 and I'm okay but more than that and it is simply too high for me.

I hope they make them again!

ME TOO.

I've ordered these - second round:

Ok, I’ve revisited this thread with interest. Even though white jeans are not on my radar at this point, I would like another pair of non-skinny, not-so-stretchy *blue* full-length jeans with a slight boyfriend vibe. I am craving a little ease in the leg in the next jeans I get, and that’s really hard for me because I have thick legs to begin with.

I still have my old AG boyfriend jeans from a few years ago (wearing them today in fact), and they are really close to what i would like — they’re quite a close cut in the hem at the ankle though. They are 98% cotton/2% polyurethane and that blend seems perfect for my preferences. Agreed with griffin that Lucky used to be awesome but now has too much stretch.

So if a “real denim” thread gets started, I’ll be paying attention!

Finding the right pair of jeans is soooo difficult. I'm getting tired of the skinny look, and wish retailers would offer better fitting jeans in more of a straight leg silhouette. It seems like everything in the stores is either skinny or distressed (or both!) and I'm about ready for a change.

Ooh, those AG and Vince jeans look great--hope they work! It does seem important not to be swayed too much by a brand's own descriptors; I've seen jeans labeled "skinny" and "bootcut", both of which were perfectly straight from knee to ankle--the definition of straight-cut in my book. And "straights" which tapered to hug my ankles. What can you do but try on every single pair with potential?

EXACTLY, Tulle. A cut can look different on a specific body type too.

How is it that the jeans look looser-fitting and relaxed on the models, then they're like leggings on a slim person, in real life? It seems like there's a lot of bait-and-switch in retail photography.

Good luck on round 2. Will be watching with interest.

And I've ordered a few more from Zappos: