Ask Angie: what are "dress pants"? - YouLookFab Forum

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Ask Angie: what are "dress pants"?

cindysmith

Veteran

I suspect a showdown could be headed my way at work. The dress code requires "dress pants", which to the management team means 'pants with a button zip fly'. They mostly wear chinos and khakis, straight leg (very Casual Friday, if you ask me).

I have a few pairs of pants that have hidden zippers on the side or rear seam. Like, JCrew slim leg pants and a pair of slim straight Lafayette 148 pants in a khaki color. I also have a pair of skinny leg black velvet pants from Gap that do have a button and zip. Today, I'm wearing a khaki colored pair of slim straight chinos. IMO, the Lafayette 148 and JCrew pants are almost more business formal, but I'm not a stylist or any other sort of fashion/style professional.

Ultimately, I would like to get some information from a subject matter expert (which includes all of you fabbers, too). What makes a dress pant a dress pant? Are my hidden zipper pants dress pants? I know a velvet skinny from Gap is open to interpretation, so I get it if I have to take those out of work rotation. The others 2 pairs, what say you experts?

Dressing

30 replies

Latest reply was from cindysmith

KikiG

Veteran

In the purest definition, a dress pant is a non-denim pant with a non-jean styling, typically in a suiting fabric. A dress pant could have a hidden or side zipper, it could have pockets or no pockets. But it would not have rear patch pockets like a jean.

Elizabeth P

Veteran

My interpretation of a "dress pant" is not cotton chinos, and not denim. And not leggings. Pretty much anything else would fit the definition... and the location of the zipper means nothing. Some dress pants could be pull on ones. A side zipper is definitely used a lot in women's dress pants. I probably wouldn't wear skinny ponte pants as "dress pants" although I do wear them to MY work. I think of them as being a wider (than skinny) leg, but that is totally my interpretation.

Bijou

Veteran

I think of dress pants as being the trousers that you would wear in a suit - so normal suiting fabric such as gaberdine. It will be interesting to hear Angie's response.

notsaf

Veteran

If they wear chinos and khakis, that's probably what they think a dress pant is, no matter what anyone says around here!

Vildy

Veteran

Interestingly, I think this is discriminatory against women because in the past it was common for women's pants to have side zippers. In fact, when I started wearing fly zipper pants as a teenager my earthy father used to joke with me about why women would want these.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Exactly, Vildy.

I have to agree with notsaf, though. If preserving relations at your job is important, what matters (sadly) is not what a stylist thinks or what we think, but what they think at your workplace. Unless there are other women who are frustrated, as you are -- in which case you might, as a group, be able to make a stronger case.

I think KikiG and Bijou are right about the definition.

Christina F.

Veteran

Sounds like this dress code was written by men with men in mind, to be honest. If you are in a neat and presentable pant that's not a jean and is in a "dressy" fabric, it shouldn't matter where the fly is! And khakis are not dress pants!!

always trying

Veteran

Dressy fabrics, no denim and no double side stitch like jeans. If they have back pockets they are not patch pockets like jeans.

L'Abeille

Veteran

I kind of suspect when they say "dress pants" they mean NOT jeans, NOT leggings, and NOT athleisure. And that the dockers style pants, khakis and cargoes, are the most casual version your co-workers can come up with that are both dressy enough for the official dress code and rugged enough for the demands of the job.

As far as interpretations, I suspect skinny pants could fly if you could picture them on Audrey Hepburn, but not if they could be mistaken for leggings.

April

Veteran

KikiG said it well.

Any pant in denim or a knit fabrication is going to have trouble posing as a "dress pant", as is anything in a skinny style.

Dress codes aren't always logical. At the public school where I used to work, the dress code was no denim, and it didn't matter if it was a trouser jean, a denim dress, or a jean jacket. They meant zero denim (though many of the teachers wore knit pants and believe me when I tell you those were WAY less dressy than a crisp pair of trouser jeans.)

They also had strict rules about no open-toed shoes, and it didn't matter if they were drugstore flip-flops or strappy Blahniks, yet sweatshirts were A-ok. Go figure.

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

Yeah, I'd imagine that they have chinos/khakis in mind - in other words, no leggings or slim pants in knit, no denim, no jeans, no jeans styling. Thankfully those styles have reemerged recently in the trends and there are ways to wear them in a current (ish) fashion. I actually find them more comfortable to work in than jeans in hotter weather.

In my mind 'dress pants' actually are dressier than chinos & khakis - something in a wool or other suiting fabric, something that if they had a coordinating blazer you could wear as a suit. But as workplaces and the world have casualized, terminology gets used different ways in different places.

April, I've had the no open-toed shoes rule at several workplaces, and it's a safety thing, or at least supposedly - so if you drop something on your foot or stub your toe on equipment the damage is going to be much less. Doesn't really matter if you're wearing nice dressy sandals or Old Navy flip flops, neither is OK.

JAileen

Veteran

Years ago, where I worked, I wore dresses or skirts every day, except for casual Friday. On casual Friday we could wear denim, but not blue denim, until the CEO wore blue jeans.

cindysmith

Veteran

I agree that it's likely gender based discrimination (all company meetings start with a prayer, and the male scions of the family name are company bigwigs, so there's that), and I'm not the only one here that's a bit frustrated by it.

I'm not ready to make waves yet, but it has crossed my mind. Especially crosses my mind when I see male meatcutters wearing DRAWSTRING JOGGERS WITH ELASTIC ANKLES and my female manager got called out on her pants that didn't have a front zipper.

April

Veteran

Laura rg -- ah, if only my school district had had a safety-related reason for the no open-toes rule. There was none; it was just the kind of rule men in charge make when they don't know how to create a dress code for women that ensures professional dress.

To be clear, I did not think the shoe rule should be eliminated because I knew that within a week, half the teachers would be at work in flipflops. I just think "open-toed" was not really the issue. See my example below for why not.

Also, the teachers were not the ones advocating for trouser jeans -- they wanted to wear sweatpants. (Um, our *students* weren't permitted to wear sweatpants to school, and they were children.)

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Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Cindy, I agree with everyone's definition and assessment so far. Anything else I can help you with?

rachylou

Veteran

I don’t think button fly means what they think it means. To me, at least, it means all buttons, not one button and a zip. I think they just want khakis.

Anonymous

It's such an outdated term, in my humble opinion. And I agree with those who say that "dress pants" are those in a woven fabric with traditional tailoring details (waistband, zipper etc). I think the definition has loosened over the years to accommodate less traditional styling , but it's all in the eyes of the policy-maker in the workplace. I do know that some workplaces have instituted the term to draw a line in the sand between work-appropriate pants and leggings, cargo joggers, denim and super-tight ponte pants.

Bennett

Veteran

It sounds like they are looking for Dockers-style pants as their benchmark for "dress pants", which makes sense for the industry probably. And because, men making the rules......

slim cat

Veteran

I wonder if they want belt loops and actual belts worn all the time and everything tucked in ( used to be that way some years ago ). Outdated.

mtnsofthemoon

Veteran

As others have mentioned "dress" pants to me is all about the fabric and cut. Nicer fabrics and trouser style. Khaki and Chinos do not come to my mind when imagining dress pants. I associate the term with business attire and or corporate/suiting attire. However, I am more curious about the possible "showdown" at your work ;-). What type of setting/business/industry?

cindysmith

Veteran

Slimcat, yes, shirts must be tucked in. Which is an entertaining task, considering that the shirts are basically garbage bags. Carly red polyester that is so stinking slippery that it isn't funny.

And if the pants have belt loops, then a belt must be worn. Which would be exactly why me and my exacto knife had a field day making sure none of my new pants had belt loops the moment I got them home.

Angie, the gap velvet skinny pants, yes or no?

Zaeobi

(website)

Veteran

Simple solution - all the women show up to work in cargo pants with a zip or button fly. Proceed to leave said buttons and/ or zips open as a 'silent strike' of defiance until they either change the rules or you escalate it to those jeggings that have the fly front painted on but are actually completely smooth

Anonymous

Haha Zaeobi
I'd think the side zip and velvet pants would be fine (if the velvet are not too hot). Dress pants to me are anything you could imagine as half a suit. Khakis to me are more of a casual work pant.
In any case- uniforms are The Worst!

Jules

Veteran

Yeah, I don't necessarily agree that traditional standards such as no open-toe shoes are sexist, or that dress codes always favour men (in many offices women can get away with a lot more variety of dress including more seasonally appropriate variation), but this situation definitely seems to favour what the men have decided is acceptable based on what's available to them. It sounds very 90s uniform, actually.

I might skip the velvet skinnies in the interest of demonstrating some desire to conform to the rules, mostly as a negotiation tactic. So not "everything except jeans is a dress pant" but "these other options with side zips are reasonable dress pants by most people's standards, even if they are not khakis'. It's not that velvet skinnies are in themselves a problem, it's that they would stand out and draw unnecessary attention to the fact that they break "the rules", whereas plainer pants may not. Operate in the grey zone.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Cindy, can you provide a link to the gap velvet skinnies?

cindysmith

Veteran

Angie, I got them NWT at a consignment shop. Like these but full length, in black

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MsMary

Veteran

I would say those are definitely not dress pants by any reasonable definition.

Jules

Veteran

They are styled as jeans, and several people have said that type of styling makes it not a dress pant. On the other hand, they do have a fly!

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Cindy, those are definitely not dress pants. They are casual jeans. Their super skinny silhouette makes them look even more casual - like leggings. But they do have a fly!

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