Any teachers out there? Question...

Kristin SF

Just curious....how are classrooms formed? My daughter received her kindergarten assignment today and I'm not thrilled with the teacher, mostly because I know the other 2 teachers and I don't really know anything about this one. I'm going to sit tight and see how it goes, but I'm curious:

1. How are classes formed in the first place? What sorts of things do schools take into consideration when forming classes?
2. Is it annoying for schools to switch classroom assignments once the classes are formed? Should I even bother asking, or should I trust in the school administration's ability to put classes together and hope for the best?

thanks in advance!

12 years ago

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11 replies

Latest reply was from lyn*

lyn*

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Assuming that all the classes are the same:

Well, how we used to do it is, we take account first which kids are "bad". We divvy them up between the teachers. Next, we take into account which kids are really good friends, and we try not to split them up, unless they are bad influences on each other, then we do sometimes try to split them. Then we just divvy up the rest of the kids to make sure we each have 30 kids or whatever :p

It's pretty subjective.

If these teachers never have had any experience with the kids (assuming this, because they're in kindergarten), it's probably just random, unless other parents have requested a particular teacher.

I was in a sucky grade 8 class and requested a switch - it was really good for me, and I'm glad my parents did it. The teacher that I was with was not a very good one, and didn't teach very often - she enjoyed drinking coffee and painting her nails, and would give us stupid assignments like "Make a title page for the next unit but there cannot be any space on it that doesn't have colour, and it cannot be white."

12 years ago

Anonymous

I don't know, I was wondering that myself. My daughter ended up in the old, tired Junior Kindergarten classroom instead of one of the new, shiny, fancy classrooms. I haven't met her teacher yet, but I hope it works out.

12 years ago

Echo

Veteran

I know at our school different teachers have different teaching styles. I know, for example, that DS1 had one teacher in 2nd grade while DS2 had the other. Given their temperaments, it was a good choice. And I have definitely noticed that they split up the "challenge" kids between classrooms and they are rarely together. As for best friends, my kids have had on-off assignments with their best friends. So my eldest has had his best friend in his class in 3rd grade, not in 4th, in 5th but not in 6th, etc. This is an "on" year and he can't wait to get back to school!

In Kindergarten, they don't know much about the kids unless they have been in a public preschool, though, so assignments are more random.

I would let it go since you haven't worked with this teacher before. You might really like her. In the future, despite schools asking that you don't request certain teachers, try sending a letter saying how delighted you were with whatever teacher when your other child had him/her, and request that the younger have that same experience. That's a diplomatic way around saying you think the other teacher is not so great. There is only one teacher in our elementary I felt this way about, and we made that request for all our kids, and it was honored.

12 years ago

Suz

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Lyn, that is hilarious! (Both -- about your teacher, and the story of how classes are put together).

In my experience as a former teacher and special ed instructor, Lyn's more or less right! Except I wouldn't use the word "bad." Especially since my own daughter is one of those kids.

The way it worked: We looked for the kids who had exceptional needs. My job, specifically, was to try to get a real sense of their learning profiles and then create the best "match" for those kids with the teacher -- as well as to divide them fairly among the different classes. This was a delicate balancing act in the high school grades (where I worked).

We tried to make sure each class had a fair mix of boys and girls. We tried to ensure that inexperienced teachers did not get burdened unfairly with disciplinary problems. And so on.

For a kindergarten class -- did the children do a reading readiness test before entry? Were they interviewed or did you fill out questionnaires about them? If so, there may have been a similar sorting process. They may also be age-sorted (born early in the year/ born late in the year) because children's age on entry has been shown to affect attention and distractibility levels.

In answer to your second question, yes, it is (or can be) annoying (and sometimes quite difficult) for schools to make a change after the fact -- but a lot depends on the reasons the change is being requested and the way it is requested, of course!

And, the fact that it might be annoying is no reason not to do it if you have strong reason to believe that leaving things as they are might not be in your child's best interests. Schools don't know everything about your kid. As parent, you are your child's advocate. If you actively believe that your child could be adversely affected by a placement, it is perfectly okay to speak up. Just know that you may be branded as a "troublemaker" -- and choose your moments wisely and well.

I say this as someone who has had to be an extremely active (even vociferous) advocate for my daughter's needs. I have sat on both sides of the desk and I know what it is like -- but if I think my daughter is being shortchanged, I will not settle for that. Her education is too important, and I don't care what people think of me. At the same time, I aim for diplomacy and tact first. The iron fist only when absolutely necessary.

To my mind, simply not knowing the teacher doesn't sound like all that great a reason to request a change. You could ask for information about her or him first -- and maybe then make a decision. After all, the good you don't know might be better than the good you do know!

12 years ago

Eliza

Veteran

I know this to be a very complex process. From the point of view of class families and students, it may appear that variables that are not even on the table for school staff are determining factors.

Kindergarten is not exactly the same process as later grades if students are known, though in our town, pre-school teachers are asked to submit a general description of entering students they have taught. Balance seems to be a factor, so that no one teacher is overwhelmed and within a classroom there are social and academic cohorts that are likely to allow groupings to form. This was the case even though our kids went to an elementary school where no grades were given, some classrooms were multi-grades, and the curriculum allowed for a lot of individuation. It wasn't about "top" and "bottom" reading groups. It was that the classroom as whole worked better if every student had peers and there was diversity of energy level and participation. They also actively tried to create environments where students could help each other grow and generate enthusiasm.

Other variables that could come up were things like older siblings' experiences, parents' history with a particular teacher, medical concerns to be managed, and social issues among students. I always marveled at the process and in general felt that the school did a good job. If the kids weren't thrilled, we encouraged them to give the unknown a chance and learn from it (within bounds). Certainly wouldn't have wanted to throw away a year, but never faced that one.

12 years ago

Suz

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ETA: Eliza raises some great points and reminds me of a few issues I didn't mention.

She is absolutely right that there are variables besides the teacher that can affect the child's experience in the classroom and all those have to be factored in, as well. It's quite a delicate dance, really.

12 years ago

Adelfa

Veteran

In my experience requests to switch *after students have been assigned* are rarely honored. I agree with those who say to wait because you might like the teacher. Also, be an involved parent who is easy to deal with. That way if a situation ever comes up where your child's interests are affected in a big way, they'll be more likely to hear you. Teachers and principals have to deal with so many things that a request has to be pretty strong to make it onto their priority list.

12 years ago

Gaylene

Veteran

Coming from a family of teachers and principals, I think Adelfa's advice is spot on. While switching a couple of names seems like a small thing to ask, it can cause havoc if word gets around and other parents decide to follow suit--and once you've done it for one person, it's almost impossible to refuse another person's request without being accused of favoritism.

For years, both my sister and I went to the same school where my father taught. He was very careful never to make any special requests so my sister and I just went where we were assigned without any questions. It was probably even harder for him because, as a lead teacher, he was quite aware of the strengths and weaknesses of all our teachers. If we complained about a "bad" teacher, his position was our not liking a teacher didn't mean that he/she was a bad teacher. He also taught us that, as students, we had a great deal of say as to how "good" a teacher could be in the classroom. If we asked good questions and conducted ourselves well, an inexperienced teacher could perform to his or her best. If we acted like brats or refused to cooperate, even the best teacher would have problems. Probably an old-fashioned view, but one that my husband and I adopted when our sons went to the same school where their father taught.

I think being involved with your child's education is absolutely vital, but I also think parents need to work with teachers to get the very best for their children. Teaching a roomful of diverse young, or adolescent, children is a difficult task but almost every teacher I've ever known has worked very hard to ensure each child could reach his or her potential. Truly bad apples exist in the teaching profession, as they do in any job, but, in my experience, they are a rare breed. Maybe give this unknown teacher a chance before making a judgement?

12 years ago

Krista

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As a high school vice-principal, I couldn't add anything to the already excellent advice you have been given. But I will reiterate that the assignment of classes and teachers is a careful process that administrators take seriously because there are just so many factors to consider. The well-being of your child is at hand which is our biggest concern!

As well, a request to switch classes needs to be grounded in much more than not knowing the teacher. Others have suggested getting to know this teacher and being actively involved. It sounds like you know the other teachers, so I'm sure this teacher will welcome the opportunity to get to know you as well as the other teachers do. Keep us posted!

12 years ago

Kristin SF

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Thanks everyone for such thoughtful responses. Great advice and insights! It should be an interesting year, I look forward to getting to know this teacher and learning her teaching style.

Again, thank you for the great responses.

Interestingly, here I am stressing about one classroom assignment and how "everything hinges on this" and my daughter was just like, Cool, that's my new teacher. And then she was on to the next topic of conversation. LOL.

12 years ago

lyn*

(website)

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Haha, aren't kids awesome?

12 years ago

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