Another post concerning Angie's blog post yesterday - YouLookFab Forum

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Another post concerning Angie's blog post yesterday

Tanya

Veteran

I was very intrigued by Angie's blog post yesterday but did not have time to post a comment on it. It is a topic I am very interested in and that stresses me out somewhat beacuse of the whole women in science thing. So I agree with what someone mentioned that what we want to say to the world with our clothing and what we actually do could be very different things.

So, especially in the light with my very near transition from a student to a working person, I am very curios to know what my current style is saying. Right now I don't really have anything special on mind I want to portray so I just go for clothes that I like and I think look good. I asked my BF and some other people what my clothes say about me and they couldn't really tell, especially since they already know me and base their opinions on what they actually know I am like. So since a lot of you have seen my daily outfits for about a year now and most of you do not know me, I guess you are the perfect people to ask this question . I am hoping to use that knowledge to adapt my style for my future carrier to portray something else I will want to at that time.

Many thanks!

General

21 replies

Latest reply was from bella

Maya

Veteran

Hi Tanya. Nice to see a post from you

I guess my input isn't very helpful since I do sort of know you, but I think my opinion of you didn't change much between talking to you here and meeting you in person. Your style strikes me as being very polished and confident. I say confident because you're always trying new things and experimenting with different styles. You don't have the problem of falling back on "safe" choices or being repetitive. You know what you like about your body and how to show it off (I am talking about your waist, of course), and you don't let the things that you might not be as confident about stop you. This is probably what I admire most about you. You just seem to have a natural, effortless style. Other than that, it's hard for me to generalize because there is so much variation within your wardrobe.

Whether or not this is appropriate for science is something I do not know about, but I don't think that needs to define you when you're not working, so I wouldn't worry too much about it for now. When you're out interviewing and you land your first job, then you might need to do some shopping which is perfectly legitimate, but I doubt you'll have to overhaul your entire wardrobe. I'm not at all familiar with how people in your field dress, or if there is any sciencey gear you might have to wear. I'm also not sure how representative your current job is of future jobs in terms of style, so just because everyone you work with is in sweats and sneakers doesn't mean everyone in the world is. Can you tell us more about what you know regarding professional style in your field?

Tanya

Veteran

Hi Maya, thanks for the reply. I am taking an afternoon of work to do some laundry and similar things, so of course I had to pop back here.

It is actually quite hard to say what is appropriate on science, since there is no written official dress code, other than long pants and closed toe shoes for safety reasons. A male scientist is considered very well dressed yet still perfectly appropriate if he wears khakis and button-down shirts with shoes ( not sneakers), but it is much more difficult to say that for women since there are so few of us and we are all over the place. I guess I will worry about that later when I hopefully get a job.

Right now I am actually curious of what my current way of dressing is saying. I can't figure out that on my own since, as you say yourself, there is a lot of variation.

Later, once I have the job I will reevaluate if that's what I want to say. I still don't know what would be by desired message, it will depend on an actual job. But, I do know what I do NOT want my clothes to say, and that is being too fussy, girly, sexy, high maintenance, impractical, trendy, fashion-forward, but of course also not sloppy either.

Maya

Veteran

Well your clothes definitely do not say any of those things (what you don't want them to say). I would not worry about that at all.

I think the fact that your wardrobe is so varied says something about you in and of itself. It tells me that you like taking risks, you're adaptable to change and even embrace it, and that you have lots of dimension to your personality. You might be girly with ruffles and pearls, but you also wear Docs and moto jackets. This to me greatly reflects on your personality. You're a scientist and a ballroom dancer! I'm sure this is not a common combination.

It sounds like the dress code for men is business casual, so I would take my cues from that...but as you said, we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Tanya

Veteran

Thanks Maya, i really appreciate your response. The scientist/ballroom dancer thing is not uncommon, there is more than 100 of us at my school only! Btw, I had to quit dancing too (again) with these new developments in my life.

The business code for men is not business casual, what I mentioned was the very best possible case. Most of them would come in jeans and polos ( or tees), and some even in sweatpants with Teva-type sandals and white athletic socks (Angie, please do not have an apoplexy). The example I mentioned was kind of setting the upper bar limit, anything nicer than that would be considered too dressy. But yes, you are absolutely right, I will cross that bridge later

Maya

Veteran

Wow, well it is uncommon to us outsiders I guess. How annoying that you had to give it up so soon, but it looks like it will be worth it and I'm sure you can take it up again later.

Is that way of dressing pretty standard, or is it just where you are working now? I wonder how many of these people are trying to live up to the stereotype of science geek. Sorry if that sounds mean but I often feel like the way we feel is appropriate to dress at work is based on stereotypes.

For now, I can say very confidently that your style doesn't say anything about you that you don't want it to. I don't know if you want to say that you DO want it to say until you get some more responses, but I'm curious to hear.

Patience

Veteran

I'm kind of splitting my thoughts between this thread and San's.

One thing I have come to realize over time is there are so many people out there in the world that there is bound to be someone out there who will perceive you in a way that you don't want to be perceived. A simple example: no matter how modest you are, there is someone in the world who will think you are not modest enough. You can't please everyone. So I say shoot for pleasing yourself first and then the people who know you well. So Tanya, I don't think you really need to worry so much about what your clothes say about you. It's already happening and Maya has been very articulate on that point. I agree with what she has said.

Maya, I think that the styles you are attracted to still convey a message about who you are even if that message is not that you are outgoing and extraverted. Your aesthetic is part of who you are and to me your attraction to color and modern styles is a sign of a rich and nuanced personality. There are much fewer clothing options than personality traits, so some options will have to serve for multiple traits.

Judy brought up spices and it's funny because just the other day I was thinking that each person's personality is like a rich, unique and flavorful combination of spices. I might think-- I'm like so and so because we have this same quality but then I also think how unique we still are because I have that spice in some different quantity and we both have different sets of spices complimenting that particular one. Okay, I've used the metaphor to death. My son is sleeping on my lap and I'm just happy.

Tanya

Veteran

Thanks Maya, I really appreciate your responses

Sadly, that way of dressing is very common to ALL the scientific work environments, research, industry, academia, all of them, not only to where I am now. If anything, it's slightly better at my current place beacuse of the big city factor. I diged up some online photos from some scientific meetings in my future city and those wore even worse So no, that's not likely going to change any time soon. It is not about stereotypes here, most of the people simply either do not care what they wear at all or care in what I call a 'reverse snobbery" way : the worse they look, that means the more time they devote to their work and the smarter they consider themselves to be. But anyway, that's not the topic now.

Ana

(website)

Veteran

Hah, Patience! I'll have to ask you what spice combination I am. As long as you don't say Marjoram, I hate that stuff (and it's very prevalent in British cooking, unfortunately), hee hee.

Tanya, the situation you are in so tough. I don't know the answer (I wish I did so we could solve this problem). I'm not far enough along in the mathematics world to really say whether it's as big a deal in that area as it is in science. So far, I've found that if you can do the work, they don't give a rip what you wear. But that might change at the elite level you are at (if I ever get there, but that's another topic). Maybe when you get a "regular" job, you could have a dual-wardrobe, like Clark Kent. Mild mannered Tanya-the-Scientist, and gorgeous, sexy, ballroom-dancing Tanya on the weekends and evenings. I know that's not really an answer. I'm coming up empty. It's so rotten that you would even have to make a choice like that, isn't it?

tarzy

Veteran

I agree that as much as we try to project a certain image, certain people will always perceive you through their own particular lens. We have often discussed on the forum how sometimes you can wear something as simple as a colorful scarf, and someone will say "Oh, you're so dressed up!" Or they think you're going to an interview for another job. Or having an affair. Or trying to show off. Or whatever! They're projecting their own "stuff." You can't control what other people think.

Having said that - Tanya, for what it's worth, when I see your pictures I think "She's young, confident, precise, cares about her appearance, and is fashionable and current without being overly trendy."

I say "precise" because everything fits you so perfectly. I would probably assume, from all of that, that you are a responsible person, and that you are careful, because you never look sloppy. (Good qualities for a scientist, by the way!) I might also assume that you have a life that you enjoy outside of work (you find time to read fashion magazines and go shopping.) I don't know if any of that is true - that is just what I think!

Kari

Veteran

Tanya, without knowing you personally but lurking on the forum & seeing your outfits for a few months, the impression I get is that you are confident and knowledgeable about your style and what makes your body look good. You look very feminine and polished even when wearing items that are much more rugged, such as Doc Martens. I agree with the comments several others said about "precise" being a good description - even in your casual dress, your clothes feature clean lines and never look sloppy. I'd also add fashion-forward in the sense that you try out (and totally work) new trends without looking in the least like a fashion victim. (I don't think that's a bad thing at all!)

Dawn

(website)

Very interesting topic, Tanya! From looking at your outfits in the last few months, I would say that you are creative and open to new things- your layering, rarely wearing the same combination twice, your docs, etc. I also think that you are modern/current.

I also have noticed the trend of dressing oneself down in the arts, humanities and social studies side of academia. I only ever have had one lecturer in the last four years that has stood out in terms of style. There definitely is a tendency in academia to promote the idea that it's either brains or beauty, not both.

I experienced the most blatant example of this a couple of weeks ago in a sociology tutorial. We were initially discussing Marxist critiques of consumer culture and branding with a focus on teenagers, and pretty rapidly the conversation took a sharp swing to women and fashion. One of the participants was arguing that any woman who has an interest in looking good is effectively stupid, shallow, has no personality and is using clothing as a way of covering up their insecurity.

Sorry for the rant, I guess I didn't really answer your questions!

shiny

Veteran

Tanya, I definetly would NOT use the words "high maintenance, impractical, trendy, fashion-forward" for you!!

The very first words that came to mind for me were "STRONG" and "RESILIENT" and "MULTIDIMENSIONAL." (Caps because that's how I saw them in my head!).

You do have a feminine (not girly) and sensual (not sexy in an immodest way) about you. But that is just a part of your whole multidimensional thing. If these are qualities you don't want to project at work, then you can easily dial them down when you want.

Antje

Veteran

Hi Tanya, I think your outfits evoke modern/current, thoughtful (maybe what others described as "precise", with a lot of attention to detail), feminine, appropriate, and I really like shiny's term "multidimensional" or complex (in a very positive sense) or something - you create very interesting combos/layers in your outfits and I think you also have a lot of interesting aspects/layers and depth to your personality.

Anonymous

Hi Tanya, I have read your post several times today and began a response a couple of times but didn't feel quite like the competent person to answer.
I'll give it another try. (Maybe this will be good practice for being able to work on my own list.)
1. Your style conveys to me a feeling of the Ralph Lauren style. To me that is quite earthy with natural fibers. This gives a sense of fine quality to your appearance.
2. You look well organized with all the correct pieces to your ensemble. The outfit is well thought out and put together beautifully. So you look to be organized and pay special attention to detail, with no cutting corners.
3. You look elegant, comfortable in your skin, graceful. I get the feeling that you probably walk with much grace and are very lovely, kind, and a sweetie pie.
4. You have taken the time to figure out and know what works best for you, and can be expected to do the same in many situations. So you are someone one would trust to give a project to, and you would come back with a thorough job well done.
5. You have a sense of fun but not in an overtly done way. You are more serious than whimsical.
6. I think you have a very romantic look to yourself. You probably draw a lot of attention from secret admirers. Maybe alluring is a good word for it.
7. Since I do know a bit about the trails of balancing your career with your style creativity, my feeling is that you have struck a good balance. You are a cut above most scientists in your appearance but not so much as to not fit in or cause a riff,or to not be taken seriously. You are not flaunting anything in the stuffy enviroment to intimidate other scientists and in fact would be a breath of fresh air.

Tanya

Veteran

Thank you all very, very much. I do not have enough words to truly express my gratitude and appreciation for your replies.

I am completely clueless to figure this on my own, so I am very grateful for you wonderful guys doing this for me. I have to admit that a lot of the replies have surprised me, but than I did not know what to expect to begin with, so I guess almost any reply would be unexpected.

This gives me a great start to figure out mu future work wardrobe ( yes, I am that annoying person that likes to think everything through and plan in advance). For beginning, I would probably want to tone done the feminine/sensual/alluring part and work more on the precise/thoughtful/confident part.

Thank you so much once again!

Laura

(website)

Veteran

Hi Tanya! To me, your wardrobe conveys that you are feminine and creative, as well as thoughtful, detail-oriented, and precise. You are already marrying your work in the science world with your love of style, in the careful (not in the sense of cautious, in the sense of being full of care) way you dress which to me seems what I might expect of a brilliant scientific mind, coupled with such creative flair and obvious love of everything style-related.

When I worked in branding we always noted that our clients were most grateful and had the most "aha" moments when they were able to see themselves as others saw them. It is eye-opening, isn't it?

greenglove

(website)

Veteran

Tanya,
I am late in replying therefore much of what others have written has been said. I agree about how well put together you look. Grace and elegance come to mind when I look at your outfits. Also, a keen sense of what works for you.
You may always be in the minority in your field when it comes to caring about fashion. Although difficult, I think it is good for others to take notice of someone that loves clothes and is highly intelligent and good at what she does in a non fashion world. You a multidimensional person with many interests. I think that by just being yourself others will not perceive you in any way that is negative. By not honoring your love of fashion because of others reactions or fitting in, you may end up putting forth a personality that does not express who you really are, a smart person with a creative side. Science is a very creative field!

HannahC

Tanya,

To me your style comes across as feminine, stylish, fashion-forward, confident, polished.

I half-agree with you about people in science being not the most fashionable crowd, to say the least. However, this should only worry you (if at all) until you got a real job. Then you can dress any way you please. Just a small example: I attended a conference in the US in my research area several months ago. There were 108 attendees there, only 8 of which women. But, out of these 8 we had: me in my usual wrap dresses and knee-high boots; my friend in a Burberry trench and stiletto booties; another friend in very haute-couture look, with geometric shaped skirts and patterned tights; yet another friend in smart-casual outfits - jeans, boots and interesting sweater vests; and another one was wearing beautifully tailored dark suits. This is 5 out of 8. The rest were students wearing something non-descriptive. Granted, me and the other women I mentioned are in quite advanced positions and don't need to constantly worry about what others think of them. But what I am saying is, when people know your research, it doesn't matter what you wear (ok, obviously no cleavage and minis, but there is no danger of that with you).
Also, in Europe, people, even in science, tend to dress much better than in the US. In a conference in Europe, the majority of men wore blazers with their khakis or dark jeans, and button-down shirts. Women were dressed in slacks and blazers as well (ok, the two women that were there ).

I do have one recommendation for you about what to wear to interviews: wear a plain black pantsuit with a modest, not-too-bright blouse and carry a dark bag. No crazy shoes either. Yes, the people who interview you will most likely wear ripped jeans and sweaters, but it doesn't matter - you should wear a suit. In case you were interviewing in Europe, I'd say a skirt suit. But since it is only in the US, a pantsuit is better.

Finally, I have to say that I find the fashion freedom (or non-attentiveness to fashion) in science quite liberating: we don't have a dress code, so I am free to wear whatever I want. I think it is very nice.

hanna

(website)

i wish i didn't get to these threads so late - everything has already been said! d'oh.

but i did want to say, lovely tanya, that never having met you, my impression of you based on your style is that you are graceful, confident and creative, but always polished, and never inappropriate. you take risks and have fun with fashion, you aren't afraid to dabble, but you never look out of place. i call that a skill. in a world seen as rigid and inflexible, to be creative is to shine brightly! revel in it.

Anonymous

Tanya, I's like to add that you come across as feminine, interesting in a way that one would like to know you better, not afraid of new and different, and you pay attention to the big picture as well as being attentive to detail...a rare quality in science. ( My husband is in a science research field.)

bella

(website)

Veteran

I was at "Gender Issues in the Sciences" roundtable discussion this past week. One of the issues that came up was how women colleagues have to present themselves more pulled together, confident, authoritative just to be taken seriously by their colleagues and students. One of the aspects of this was having to dress a notch better than their male counterparts. So if you feel like you're now a bit dressed compared to other colleagues, it could potentially be a good thing for you.