Another Poll ~ Which item of clothing is most provocative..... - YouLookFab Forum

Category

General

Welcome! Read about what to wear and how to wear it on the YLF Blog. Join the YLF Forum to ask specific questions or just chat about fashion and personal style. Or check out the curated list of things we love in YLF Finds.

Outfits Ensembles Trends Advice

Another Poll ~ Which item of clothing is most provocative.....

RoseandJoan

Veteran

*WARNING MAY CAUSE INTENSE ANGER*

Boxing gloves at the ready ladies.

Yes there has been another online survey regarding men's attitudes to women's clothing. I know you are thinking seen it, done and bought the IRONIC t shirt but it did throw up a surprise. Apparently the men surveyed believed a pencil skirt to be more provocative than a mini skirt. Do you agree?

Which type of skirt do you consider the most provocative, pencil skirt or mini?

Here is the article
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/fem.....ssage.html

General

28 replies

Latest reply was from anne

londonkiwi (now back in NZ)

Veteran

Hmmm, when you said provocative I thought you meant in a good way, rather than in a bad way - i.e if you had a line up of women in a mini-skirt and in a pencil skirt 9/10 men preferred the way that the women looked in the pencil skirt as opposed to the mini - rather than more sexually available.

I don't think that the green lace on my new aqua green cardigan makes me look easy, nor do I think that my 3 inch, knee high boots, when paired with my sheath dress (as body con as I go).

RoseandJoan

Veteran

I certainly could never see you looking 'easy' Fi, you seem to have a refined style! I did warn you to have your boxing gloves at the ready.

londonkiwi (now back in NZ)

Veteran

Don't worry, I don't mind the boxing gloves - I used to work in politics!

I should have not read it given the newspaper!

The feminist in me is snarling at that article...

annagybe

(website)

Veteran

I'm still single and I definitely tone my clothes when I go on first dates. I once made the mistake of not rechecking a guy's height before our first date (it was internet date). He was 3 inched shorter than me in flats and I mistakenly busted out my 4 inch heels. I was an Amazon compared to him, oops. He never called or wrote again.
That said I would wear a figure hugging pencil skirt over a mini.

Louise

Veteran

*Thinking out loud here so may come across a bit garbled!*

Pencil skirts have the sexy secratary look about them and do show off curves. they give off more of a 'suggestion' of sexyness than a mini skirt which is just in your face. Men are very simiple beings when it comes to sex! so I'm sure put them in a room full of maxi dresses with long sleeves and high necks ad at least 1 man would find them sexy or provocative.
Personally i'd feel much sexier in a pencil skirt with heels and my oversize denim shirt belted and the top button undone than a revealing mini skirt and crop top and any man who forbade me to go out in a particular item would be out on his ear!!!!

taylor

Veteran

I asked my hubby what he thought.

He said he much prefers to see a woman in a well fitted pencil than a mini, he feels a pencil shows a womans shape in a very appealing way, from the front, side and back..all views are alluring.
A mini skirt just shows alot of thigh and not in a flattering way.

bj1111

Veteran

the sexy secretary is such a common fetish that i'm not surprised that it is viewed as more provocative than a mini skirt. the context (sexy gear in a "serious" office setting) also suggests a naughtiness about it that is appealing to many men. i wouldn't be surprised if many of them fantasize about being seduced by their/a secretary.

btw, have you seen the modesty survey? talk about making my blood boil.

we (as women) are responsible for keeping our clothing, posture, crossbody bags, patterned hose modest, in case we pose "stumbling blocks" for all the horny young men out there.

shana

Veteran

It so depends on body type, don't you think? Honestly, I don't think I look very provocative in a pencil skirt - I just don't have the curves on the bottom for it! Put put me in a tight v-neck top - even one that looks completely innocuous on the hanger and watch out!

Dawn

(website)

As far as I'm concerned, most straight men would probably find most clothes sexy. I'm not going to dress in a burlap sack just to prevent some guy finding me attractive.

The worst thing is about people judging a woman who wants to dress professionally who wears pencil skirts & cardigan as deliberately dressing as a sexy secretary look is that they often are judging some of the better and most appropriately dressed women in most workplaces.

"a quarter would forbid their wife or girlfriend from wearing something they disapproved of on a night out"... Seriously, what type of man is so paranoid that they would ban their girlfriends wearing something?

medusa

Veteran

I wouldn't take this type of survey too seriously. It's a survey by a site called "mycelebrityfashion". If a survey is asking, "which of these clothes make women look slutty?" you're bound to get ridiculous results. I doubt that it was a randomized, statistically valid poll. Who knows if the men polled even know what a pencil skirt IS?

Steph

Veteran

I can definitely see men saying that a pencil skirt is sexier or more provocative than a mini because of the whole "naughty librarian/secretary" thing. I would love to see the actual questions the study asked, though. From the article, it makes it sound like participants were asked who would be "easy," and it would surprise me if someone in a pencil skirt was thought to be "easier" than someone in a mini. Of course, the entire idea of labeling a woman as "easy" really makes me want to vomit.

The statistic about men forbidding their partners to wear something is really sad. I guess I should feel lucky: a few days ago I was lamenting that my abs have seen better days and will not look great in a bikini this summer. I said to my boyfriend "I guess I'm going to have to go with a lower cut bikini top to draw everyone's attention from the bottom." Rather than "forbid" me to do so, he agreed it could be a good strategy.

bj, is that modesty survey something from a very conservative religious organization? It reads as if it is (and I see a bible verse is in the header of the website).

Sihaya

Veteran

I can see why pencil skirts can be more alluring. I think more than the actual outfit, how you put it together can have a lot to do with it too. And I agree with Dawn, I am not going to wear a burlap sack as long as I'm dressing according to my standards for modesty.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

I think it depends entirely on the confident attitude of the wearer - whether she's wearing a mini skirt or fitted pencil skirt. To be and feel alluring comes from within. It's that feeling that is the necessary x-factor to seal the deal.

Maya

Veteran

Haha, if I got dressed every day worrying that random men on the street would find me alluring and/or easy I would have to wear a potato sack every day! It is not hard to get men riled up and I continue to be amazed at the kind of things that they find "provocative." I had a friend who had a thing for girls in overalls...quite possibly the most un-alluring garment in creation. In fact I'm sure even if I wore a potato sack, there is someone out there who will find that sexy. Heck, I'm surprised girlsinpotatosacks.com isn't a registered domain.

I wear both minis and pencil skirts and feel alluring in neither. In the end it's really ok if some men find me "easy." I find them stupid, so I guess we're even.

Sveta

(website)

Veteran

I wonder why men are so ego centric and think that we dress for them? They just try to push their own problems to us.
You know, it reminded me about my trip to Middle Asia more than 20 years ago. We had a great city guide and he told us a lot about Muslim culture and habits. He told us that the reason that women are not allowed in the mosque is because men get so excited in the presence of women (even when they are covered from head to toe !!!) that they cannot concentrate on prayers! So it looks like it is not women who are "easy" but rather men.

Maya

Veteran

I actually think the more oppressed women are, the more savage the men become. I"m not mincing words here. When you cover up women from head to toe, it sexualizes their entire body. As soon as the veil comes off it's like they are naked, even if they are not. Just the sight of a woman's foot would be enough to set off a man if he is not used to seeing it.

If women in the US started walking around with bare breasts, it would be quite a circus, to say the least. In other cultures where being bare chested is the norm, seeing breasts just doesn't have the same impact.

Theresa

(website)

Veteran

hmmm *interesting*!

That's about all I can say LOL

Kate

Veteran

what Maya said! (in both of her posts)

I showed the list to my boyfriend and he said "they must have polled the stupidest men alive!" We both think underwear as outerwear should be much higher on the list, and pencil skirts should be a bit lower...

Beth

Veteran

Maya, I absolutely agree.

I read parts of the modesty survey before I gave up in disgust. Patterned jeans pockets are immodest because it draws mens' attention to the rear?! Reading this survey felt like the Christian version of why women need to be veiled. It actually gave me the shivers. Why do some men find women so frightening?

RandomThoughts (Andrea)

Veteran

I read the modesty survey; what a joke! there were a few comments that I found very telling. Several men (and boys) felt anger towards women they found "immodest" (read: sexually attractive). One man said that confident women who smiled and carried themselves with pride (I'm paraphrasing here) were "immodest", it was more their attitude than clothing. None of this is a problem with women. It's men finding certain women attractive! There is no way we, as a gender, can be held responsible for another person's internal response particularly when it is so individual and subjective.

Maya, I loved this comment of yours: "When you cover up women from head to toe, it sexualizes their entire body. As soon as the veil comes off it's like they are naked, even if they are not. Just the sight of a woman's foot would be enough to set off a man if he is not used to seeing it."

I laughed out loud when I read it! I'm a dog trainer, which means I observe and study dog behavior. We see exactly this sort of response: fear/anxiety/excitement in dogs when they are exposed to something with which they are unfamiliar or something they are driven to seek but repeatedly prevented from obtaining ("thwarting" in trainer jargon). This is exactly what you described! And so dead on.

As for my fashion response, I don't dress myself based on the response of strangers. I have nearly always been fairly fashion daring and so I am used to people making ridiculous presumptions based on appearance. That's their problem. My response when I saw the title of the article was, "Who cares what men think?"

Not me.

RandomThoughts (Andrea)

Veteran

Apparently I have a WOTD! LOL

Katiepea

(website)

Veteran

I was prepared to tut-tut this list until I recalled how when I was a (legal) wee whipper-snapper I used to love to go out clubbing with my best friend. (I laugh at myself when recall how my nights would never start before 10pm and how now that very same time invariably is my bedtime or I'm fast asleep!)

My best friend and I used to absolutely LOVE dancing and we would groove for hours and hours at a time, no wonder I was slim!

We quickly worked out that to avoid possible unwanted attention (but to still feel young and hip and (dare I say it, ok, I will!) sexy, we subscribed to our own personal code of dress: Either wear a short skirt with more of a modest top OR a tight/cropped top and modest skirt/pants. If we wore a short dress it wouldn't be fitted. Even we felt (for the crazy young things that we were) that a combination of super tight top + super short skirt = asking for trouble. Particularly as we would often party until dawn and a lot of the time, a lot of the people weren't in a particularly sober state. From that point of view, I can see how this (dodgy) list kinda makes sense to me.

More than that, thanks for reminding me of such a fun, random memory of my care-free days, I must give my BF a call so we can have a giggle!

rute

Veteran

ah ah Maya! That's true!

The fitted pencil skirt is more lady-like and the mini leaves nothing to imagination.. so that's why I think they find the pencil skirt more "provocative".

April

Veteran

BJ wrote: we (as women) are responsible for keeping our clothing, posture, crossbody bags, patterned hose modest, in case we pose "stumbling blocks" for all the horny young men out there.

Yes, that is the basis for virtually every religious stricture on women's appearance. I'm not talking just about the head-to-toe burka, but orthodox Judaism's tradition of having women cover or cut off their real hair so they don't distract the men from their important studies.

Good point, Maya. During certain earlier periods in western history, it was more appropriate to expose cleavage (because breasts were viewed as more maternal than sexual) whereas the risque thing to do was to expose the ankle.

Sveta

(website)

Veteran

Beth, I do not think that men find women frightening - rather thet are frightened that they cannot control their "primary instincts" and of course it is all our fault !:-)

anne

Veteran

I have been away but wanted to get back to this thread to comment on the modesty survey from the perspective of someone who is a christian. (I have nothing to add to the comments on the original article Julie posted and agree with the comments already made)

While I don't like every aspect of the modesty survey, (and also haven't looked at every single item, or all the comments) I do think it is quite different from the other article. My reading of the purpose of the survey was that it was intended as a sort of dialogue for a particular audience who share
- a commitment to particular standards wrt sexuality, which includes not just actions but thoughts. So they will be trying, not just to avoid say adultery, but to avoid thinking about doing it.
- The women or girls will be trying to help them with this
- Many teenage girls have little idea about the visual nature of male stimulation ( I can completely vouch for this in my own life)
- this was trying to give them some ideas about how guys think so they could not unintentionally be "a stumbling block".

But as for who is responsible, one question asked
"As a guy, what is your responsibility in this area? What is your role in guarding your eyes and mind (as opposed to the women's role of dressing modestly)?"

Every single answer on the main page (I didn't go to extras) said it was the man's responsibility.

As I said, there were things I didn't like about this. Among them, I didn't like that some of the questions asked "is "x modest/inmodest". I thought this labelled the girl more than some other questions which said "x is a stumbling block for me" which I thought gave off more of the effect of "this behaviour is difficult for me" rather than a problem with the girl itself. I also thought that listing all these might just give guys ideas!

I have had 2 applications of this sort of idea in my own life. When I was in my early 20's a young guy at church told me that fiddling with my bra strap in front of him at church was giving him difficulties. I had no idea that that could be the case, and tried to stop doing it.
My husband doesn't like me to wear a bikini at the beach and I don't (not that I did ever before anyway!). I do try to dress in a way that is modest and most of you would see from my pics that that isn't really different to how most of you dress anyway. But if I were in a different culture I would try and dress in a way that was generally seen as modest in that culture. Would I have to? No. I would be choosing to give up that freedom for the sake of other people.

I don't know if this explanation helps at all!

bj1111

Veteran

anne,

i'm sorry but your story about the bra strap adjustment reinforces my original argument. if it were his responsibility, he would have just looked away. instead, he chose to burden you with the responsibility of sitting through church with an uncomfortable bra strap. (here i assumed that fiddling=adjusting.)

anne

Veteran

no - I think I was just playing with it.

And I don't agree that asking me that diminished his responsibility. It was his responsibility however I responded to his request. I should also add that it was pretty unusual to be told something like this - in my experience most guys would not have had that conversation, which means that women are unaware of these things.

Also while I agree that it is his responsibility, this does not mean I would want to make things harder for him. As a christian, I want to make it easier for people not to sin. As an imperfect analogy, if I park my car unlocked on a city street and someone steals it; it is absolutely their wrongdoing. It is still stealing. But I would choose to lock it so it isn't so easy for them to do it.

Part of my Christian faith means that I do not always stand on my rights, but sometimes give them up.

BTW I am not saying that I wouldn't do anything that that survey mentions. For one thing I am on the other side of the world, and for another I did think some of the things were a bit unreasonable! I have breastfed 2 babies for years while sitting in church (no-one said anything about this).