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About age - don't understand this ...

Katerina

Veteran

Some of the recent conversations about older models made me think about this question again. Why are so many brands, retailers, bloggers, designers, influensers etc. only focusing on certain age groups, or age segments only? It would be much more inspiring to see a variety of people of different ages wearing the items in various ways... Just like being inspired by stylish people of all ages in the streets, in cafés, at airports, offices, or anywhere... It is the beauty of fashion and style.
What am I not getting? Any thoughts?

General

59 replies

Latest reply was from Jenni NZ

Cardiff girl

Veteran

Oh dear Katerina,you are thinking like a sane and logical human being again aren’t you.lts FASHION darling,and in order to remain aspirational I think the fashion powers that be think it must always be slightly unobtainable,if “normal”people can attain it what’s the point in spending thousands on designer stuff.I think it’s beginning to change though with the rise of so called influencers on the web.

Helena

Veteran

I agree Katerina! I think the idea that age defines style is a dying notion, but the clothing retailers haven't caught up to us yet!

Janet

(website)

Veteran

Not only age, but body size and shape. It seems a model can be older OR an “unconventional” model body type (ie over a size 4US) but not both. I would love to see a model I can relate to. Probably not in this lifetime.

Katerina

Veteran

Yes, I know, Cardiff Girl, you are right.

My question goes actually both ways - as I enjoy watching couture shows and other fashions shows - which is the unattainable, the dream sort of a thing, as much I enjoy fabbers' WIWs here, which can also be unattainable of course, but not always There are great outfit blogs for women over 40 or women of certain age etc., as well as those focusing on young people. It's fun and inspirational to read all. But there are very few which would address any stylish people of all ages.... just great style for anyone. Or is it me not knowing about them? Or not understanding something?

Katerina

Veteran

That is a great point, Janet!

Alexandra

(website)

Veteran

Essentially, because you can’t please everyone. So companies narrow down their target customer, figure out what he or she needs, wants, and aspires to, and then they cater to that. If you’ve ever thought “that’s too expensive” or “I don’t get it” or “how come they don’t have my size?”, odds are good you’re not the target customer of that brand.

One of the problems in the fashion industry is that most companies compete for the same customer group while entirely ignoring other segments of the buying public. Some of it stems from sales data showing certain sizes/colors/materials sell better than others, some of it is because certain groups have more disposable income or are more likely to actually spend it, and some of it is because sizeism and ageism are very much part of the fabric of our society. I’m sure there are other factors too. Maybe others who know will chime in.

JAileen

Veteran

I just noticed a tv ad the other day for a non fashion item, and the actress was plus size. I thought it was interesting because in the past that was unthinkable.

LaPed

Veteran

And target demographics extend far beyond fashion. Almost every company does this: "Who is our customer and how do we market ourselves to reach them?" Not just age, but gender, race/ethnicity, locale (urban vs rural), etc. It is really frustrating.

Anonymous

I'm not sure if Alexandra is in the United States or not, but from my prospective, the United States worships youth and everything associated with it. Therefore, the companies that Alexandra mentions might have decided that what they want to sell is eternal youth. That seems to bleed to other companies that either willingly or by force follow suit. Plus size models and older models are new. So new that it gets commented on in blogs/posts.

The truth of the matter is that those companies are not truly embracing either plus size or older women, they got free press by using them. They'll revert back tomorrow.

Fascinating question. I'll be watching this post to see what others think.

jussie

Veteran

Yes, it’s weird how this has developed. Partly I think it’s the retailers not wanting to alienate their existing customer base by trying something new.... but partly I think it’s that the majority of people are very, very conventional in their fashion preferences (at least where I live they are)... which in turn means they only wear what the retailers say they are ‘supposed’ to wear. So it becomes a vicious circle.
Thank goodness size-ism is easing up though. I honestly did not think I would see that in my lifetime.

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

Didn’t the US’s focus on youth begin with the baby boomers, such a large group of young people with more money to spend than past generations had at that age? I keep hoping that as they age, the pendulum will swing to where I’m going instead of where I’ve been.

Anonymous

Interesting, Fashintern. I can't say when the US began to focus so intently on youth. It might have begun with the baby boomers. Certainly that generation had money and was willing to spend it. I doubt any of us ever thought we could possibly age.

The reason I am hesitant to jump on board with you is because I remember women from my Mother's and Grandmother's generations feeling this impossible standard they had to try to achieve (e.g., size, shape, hair color, skin). I thought it was more forgiving in my generation. So I am wondering if the youth obsession predated the baby boomers?

Maybe we called it something else? Maybe I am confusing this issue. If so, sorry for the misdirection.

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

Hm, Jane Fonda’s shape at 50 was just as difficult for most 50 year olds to achieve as her 20-something body had been for most 20 year olds. I suppose we could go dig up old ads from each decade and see what age women were shown. The other thing, though, is that women in the US are bigger than in the past. I don’t know how many inches difference there are between a size 16 and a runway model, but I guarantee you it is less than the difference between an average woman and a runway model pre-Twiggy.

Not trying to argue with you, Sterling, just puzzling along with you.

taylor

Veteran

Fashion models are basically clothes hangers. Their looks, size and shape are SUPPOSED to be neutral .
Funny it never comes across/translates that way though.

rachylou

Veteran

Impossible standards but not youth oriented? I feel like people were dying to grow up before the 60s, when it became forever young, but maybe that’s my imagination.

rachylou

Veteran

Oh wait... but everyone did want to stop before 30...

DonnaF

Veteran

And then there's the TV commercials for various Rx. They are shown during broadcast news shows -- which I suppose only DH and I and maybe older Baby Boomers watch, certainly not Millennials. Now there's a silver set. Definitely not fashion forward, and current would probably be a stretch.

But yes, most brands and retailers focus on a certain age demographic, body type, and income level. I think the challenge comes in when all three are not in sync, for example if a junior body needs a conservative outfit at a moderate price. Or, until recently, a plus size young person wanted to wear something that didn't look like it belonged to her mother or aunt.

Jenni NZ

Veteran

I feel like Rachy is right, and it maybe started in the 60s. I agree there were cults of youth before that ( remember the flappers?- that must have been hard to measure up to if you weren't flat chested and straight), and difficult other standards of beauty eg in the 50s following the 1947 New Look, and the women meant to be housewives but gorgeous with it. The little woman waiting at home with not a hair out of place, dinner on the table at 6 pm? Thank goodness we have moved on from that!
Katerina, some of the biggest influencers in fashion are just so totally horrible about weight issues and even height, Karl Lagerfeld for one I am fairly sure. I can't quote his actual comments, would have to look them up. Marc Jacobs was horrible about Cara Delevingne just before her career as a model took off, saying something like "What is this dwarf doing here?", I read. Someone like that does not want someone like me as their customer, I believe, and I tend to want to avoid even Chanel's perfumes, and anything by Marc Jacobs, due to those comments. And so they have alienated me as a customer. I could easily afford their perfumes.

Barbara Diane

Veteran

I am happy to see at least some movement in both size and age. But it does seem that the plus size models are younger without lumps and bumps and with defined waists. And older models are thin.
Even partial representation helps. I was surprised at how much of an impact it had on me when I first saw plus size models on tv.
And notwithstanding the clothing choices on the older models on pharmaceutical ads, the men always have a significant quantity of hair.

Jessikams

(website)

Veteran

It is such a weird thing, I agree. I notice fashion blogs might aim at “over 40” as if we are a specialty group of some kind. But basically we are just... fully grown adults??

Anonymous

This is a fascinating discussion. I can assure you that when we embraced mini skirts in the 60's, our mothers did not follow completely. In the 60's the ideal body changed so much. It went from the voluptuousness maturity of Marilyn and other film stars to a straighter, younger figure of Twiggy and other rather young models. I do know that the young in the 60 s had a horror of being like their parents. It was " The times, they are a-changing" and a lot of barriers seemed to fall, especially in race and minority acceptance by our generation. There was a passion for social justice and peace that was represented in our shocking skirt lengths and not wearing bras and girdles, gloves or hats. Tee shirts were controversial because wearing them meant identifying with the poor and wearing underwear as normal clothing. Same with jeans. To our parents, wearing jeans said " I am a farmer". It seemed important to them to differentiate classes. Not the baby boomer. Break down class barriers. Marrying someone different..class, race, ethnicity.
Our fashion ideals were definitely British or European. This was the time of huge Beatles and British boy band popularity as well as Brigitte Bardoe (sp?) of France. Anything British was especially "cool".
Now, as an over 70 and early Baby Boomer, the fashion scene is hard to negotiate. We do not want to look like our parents but seem to have no guidance. Talbots seems to target over 40's as customers, but their clothes do not fit an older person's body very well. I am I between sizes as are several of my friends. The bling of Chicos may appeal to the older woman living in Florida or Texas, but that bling is too much any further north. Eileen Fisher gets the apple figure challenges but not that older women tend to be short and can be overwhelmed by fabric..

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

RL, “Never trust anyone over 30” was a baby boomer thing, unheard of before then.

rachylou

Veteran

FashIntern - Before then, didn’t people go on about their life being over when they turned 30? I mean, was it George Carlin that would joke how people used to drop dead at 40 and were grateful for it?

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

Interesting point, Joy, about the US looking to Europe, including the UK, for fashion. There is still some of that, as Americans assume French and Italian styles are always right, but to a large extent the pendulum has swung the other way, with the US as a global fashion influencer.
A question for Katerina and other Europeans: when did this start? My guess is that it began in the 60s, as US baby boomers hit their teens years just a couple years before European baby boomers did. (the baby boom in Germany was a couple years later than in the US, and I’m guessing it was in other European countries that were also badly damaged by the war).

Stagiaire Fash

Veteran

RL, i don’t follow you. Wasn’t Carlin a baby boomer? I think of him as a 70s entertainer, not as someone who reflected earlier standards. I think a lot of his act (including 7 words) was explicitly about rejecting those standards.

Bijou

Veteran

Whilst I appreciate the beauty of tall, thin, young models I do find it makes considering whether an item of clothing would look good on me hard to judge. I like retailers that provide garment measurements as that assists with determining size and scale of items. When all models are 5 foot 10, those extra 5 inches make quite a difference to how the garment looks on me.

I do like how L'Oreal uses Jane Fonda for a range of anti-age products, using 15 year old models to sell anti-age creams is just crazy.

rachylou

Veteran

I don’t know it was George Carlin. But the joke reflected this idea that people couldn’t wait to be adults before the 60s/boomers. But seems to me, at the same time referred to, folks dreaded 30. Because it really was old. 40 is when people started dying and it wasn’t exactly unexpected. An unmarried woman at 25 was an ‘old maid’ and ‘on the shelf.’

So my thought was, although people wanted to be considered grown, the prime of life was rather young.

And I mean, who paid attention to children before Dr Spock?

Jane

Veteran

Interesting thread...is it age or is it women....is there a crossover between

I’m interested in understanding more about Scandinavian culture and their approach. From a very simplistic perspective it seems on the Scandinavian dramas, there is a kinder / warmer / more human approach to age and beauty. I’ve not been to Scandinavia yet, but I’m hoping to go, and I’m really hoping that it has some elements of a different approach.

Dr Spock is a very good point Rachylou.

cindysmith

Veteran

This is the logical place for a consumer driven economy to wind up. When people want to start businesses, they have to first ask themselves "who is my target market?" And their target market is youth obsessed, as evidenced by the number of wrinkle prevention creams and serums available to make us look younger than we are.

I love Iris Apfel's thoughts on exactly this, and on aging. Westernized society has this obsession with youth, and I believe it started with the golden age of advertising (think Mad Men). In order to sell more product, companies had to create desire. So they started planting seeds that grew into insecurities and drove people to buy things because they weren't young enough or pretty enough, or their hair wasn't straight & shiny enough, or their car wasn't cool enough, their clothes weren't sufficiently fashionable, and so on and so on and so on. It's turned old ideas about age upside-down. Where we once respected our elders and wanted their wisdom, we now worship at the fountain of youth and stupidity.

Don't believe me? Let me offer up Exhibit A (pic 3): my tv has the tvplus app, and tvplus has a Wipeout channel that is 24/7 episodes of Wipout from around the world; and I'm almost as addicted to the Wipeout channel as I was to all things Jackass before I got clean (sober). Seriously, Johnny Knoxville was my action hero for an English class paper on our action movie/cartoon hero, because it doesn't get much stupider than Steve-O getting a body piercing that pinned his butt-cheeks together.

I dont read a lot of magazines or follow style blogs (Angie being the obvious exception because she's so good at finding ways to interpret trends for all ages, sizes, style personas, and budgets). I think part of the reason I don't read them is because they don't give me what YLF gives me: a place to go to see a variety, a diverse membership with so many different style personas spread across so many age ranges and sizes and budgets.

I don't know what the answer is, but I do like that this place is often the change in wish to see in the world.

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