As discussed above, everyone has a budget (which may be more or less $, and more or less defined). I am trying to establish a reasonable annual budget so that I can replenish my wardrobe sustainably & have fun with fashion.
If I find an expensive jacket that I love, which costs over what I expected in my budget, the money has to come out of the jeans fund or the shoes pool. It's not that the jacket isn't worth the money, but is it worth giving up something great in another category? I frequently decide "it's too much money", not because the item isn't worth the money, but because I need to spend it in another place.

I have a relatively small clothing budget, but it is supplemented by clothes that I thrift and consign. I also buy the majority of my things second hand, one way or the other. I do have the luxury of enough time to frequent (and I mean frequent) local thrift and consignment stores, and am lucky enough to live near some great ones. I occasionally go into the mall for a reality check - the quality of what is sold new is sometimes so abysmal that I cannot understand how anyone pays for it. For the same price or less I can get a designer piece that I will love more and will last longer. I think if my budget were larger, I would still look for bargains, but would definitely pay full price for quality if it were the perfect thing. As a matter of fact, it is probably a very good thing that I do not live near any boutiques with amazing new stuff.

I have been price tag-conscious all my life, but I am willing to spend more now on items than I was a couple of years ago, and I am definitely one of the high-low shoppers on YLF.

Because of my frugal upbringing, I'm actually a little embarrassed to buy something expensive lest it seem frivolous, but I'm getting over it. Part of that attitude has rubbed off from my husband, who grew up in a much less affluent environment than I did (my family was solidly suburban middle-class), and had very little, so he is enjoying the fruits of his labor. All the same, we are also savers, so we are committed to never letting our spending habits on clothes or anything else jeopardize our financial security.

Nonetheless, the bargain shopper in me is still alive and well, so I happily wear the blue leather Iro jacket and the $10 Target tee in the same outfit. But I also am learning to reject a bargain item if it isn't exactly what I want and I don't feel great in it.

I don't work so I don't need clothes for that setting. My events for which I need clothes each month are a few meetings, lunches out with friends, and movies or theater. (I don't think I need anything nice for going to the dog park or walking the dog. In those venues it's really about the weather.) I could probably have one nice outfit that would cover everything. It's hard for me to justify spending a lot of money on clothes. So I shop at thrift stores. Prices are low so I don't worry about costs at all. For me it's entertainment as well as finding appropriate things to wear. I really love coming across something special that others have overlooked.

First, I think that retail has trained consumers to look for coupons, price cuts, clearance pricing, etc. We are told by most major retailers that paying full price is foolish. Second, many people admit that shopping is a hobby or sport. It is more fun to engage in shopping for fun when you can obtain more items for less money, because then you can "play" longer. And last, many women go for quantity over quality. So the idea that a man needs something and goes out to buy it without bargain hunting isn't particularly suprising. Most men own comparatively fewer items overall and can afford to spend more if it means that they have more of their time for other things.

But most of all, I think quality shopping is a learned thing. People are more likely to buy fewer quality pieces if they are taught by mothers who do the same.

It took me quite a while to realize that usually I keep the items I spend more on for a longer time and they last. While this doesn't happen for everyone, I used to be unduly influenced by clearance pricing and thought more about price and quantity instead of what I really loved. That's not to say that I have unlimited funds - almost no one does. But like Angie mentioned, it isn't a tragedy if I spend the budget for several months on one item when it is worth it. It isn't as though I will have nothing to wear in the meantime! So it has taken me quite a while to get to this place, but I am doing better than ever before when it comes to only purchasing what I really, truly love, (almost) regardless of price.

Very interesting to read everyone's thoughtful comments. Like Mo says, our relationships with money and clothes goes WAY beyond fashion!

Dana said: until I saw a friend of mine in action. She wears whatever she wants whenever she wants, and she always looks great, and the item always looks good. She's wrecked a few things, or her dog has, and she just shrugs. For her, it's about using an item she loves. If that means she wears it every day, she does. if that means she wears it once, she does. If it means wearing it hiking, well, she goes for it.

I love that, honestly. "

i love it too. My mom had a dear college friend who lived like that, mom admired her so much that i am named after her.

That friend was an heiress to the Spreckels sugar fortune.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.....ar_Company

I think that may have had something to do with her attitude As others have already pointed out, all of us have budgets, lifestyles, etc. to consider. Of course i won't shop in the bridal department as it makes no sense in terms of my lifestyle - it doesn't meet my lifestyle criteria. To me that's the same as not shopping in the Chanel boutique in Maiden Lane - it's out of my budget criteria.

My mother has the reverse of the 'penny pinching' attitude - for years she always wanted to pay fulll freight for anything, hated getting anything on sale. She worked in a professional capacity and it wasn't a problem financially.

Now that she is retired and on a fixed income, i've been pushing her to shop around and get things on sale so she'll have money for other things (going out for lunch with her girlfriends, and so on). We had a big breakthru recently and she stocked up on Jockey panties at a buy 2, get one free sale! woohooo!!!

to me it's just common sense. i don't shop at J. Crew because they design for tall rectangles and i'm a big shouldered hourglass. It's not a good fit. Neiman Marcus isn't a good fit with my wallet steph

Interesting thread.
I guess I am just european because this whole thought process is very alien to me.
The way I was brought was something like this:
We just have two sales season traditionally so the 'track down until the price drops' doesn't make much sense .
Also either you buy things because you need them or because you saw an item that appealed to you, in either cases you have to ponder if you have (or will ever have) the budget for it or if you can save money for it, if the quality is worth the price or if the item will be used in a circumstance that a brand is important regardless of the quality.
I do enjoy browsing my local winners(the canadian Marshalls I guess) and find good fitting items cheap but what attracts me is always the clothes not the bargain.

I haven't yet read all the responses here but I promise I will. I agree with Christy and Suz and I take time to consider ALL my purchases (big or small) because I don't want a closet full of things I don't wear. Another issue for me is perceived worth and I think this is different for everyone. I have friends in the fashion industry and I am very aware of the mark up on women's clothing. Generally I think I have a good sense of what items are worth and as such sometimes I will stalk an item until it reaches a price point that I believe is appropriate for that garment and for me. And of course I have a budget to respect.

I have teensy budget IK £30.00 per month maximum which means I have to work very hard to find desirable items at my price point. I do, however, know myself enough to say that I would pay full price if my budget allowed.

I do not baulk at the price of designer items and I do not judge people who buy these pieces either.

I do think whatever your budget it takes discipline to stick within your boundaries and make each purchase count.

My clothes last me enough time that I could spend a bit more on them and they would still be worth the price in terms of usage. That is, if I had the money to do that. If I go shopping with mom, yes, I'll get more expensive items (not too expensive though, just what would be average to the average 40-50 years old woman with a good enough salary and an already economically solved life (aka many of you)). But if I am going on my own and/or friends with the same fantastic money situation (note irony), I have to go for cheap. There's no way around that with what I earn. Period.

AND, I do not visit stores out of my money range. I feel it only makes me feel bad and I don't see a point in seeing pretty stuff I just can't have, although I know others who do that.

PS: I am enjoying the point I am right now, though, when I have every single coat style I need (casual, formal, thick, mid-season, leather jackets), and every single pair of shoes I need (except for the ballet flats) -black tall boots, black heeled booties, beige suede wedge booties, brown tall boots, brown oxfords, cool cons and cute sneakers-. So now I can spend money on other more silly stuff lol

I think I would be more willing to pay higher prices if nicer items were widely available in my size. A problem I have found is that it is very difficult to find my size in clothing *at all*, and very frequently what I do find is not good quality for the price, so I look for things second hand or on sale.

Perhaps it's just the crowd I run with, but I see the resistance to spend money on clothing as an American thing. As a whole, it seems that we are expected to find bargains when it comes to clothes. I live in a very high income area of the country.... in fact, according to some sources, THE highest median family income in the country. (I probably didn't word that correctly, but anyway....)

Most of my friends live in decent to nice homes, drive decent to nice cars, pay housekeepers to clean their homes, have their kids in music lessons and/or private school, take nice vacations, but shop at Kohl's, Marshall's and TJ Maxx for clothing. It almost seems socially unacceptable to spend $$ on clothing. I don't view my friends as wealthy, but I'm pretty sure they won't find themselves in the soup kitchen lines if they spent over $100 dollars for a pair of shoes.... but most of them won't. I'm not being critical, just making observations. I realize people are saving to put their kids through college, saving toward retirement, etc, but I still don't get why spending a few more $$ on clothing is viewed as so frivolous. It almost seems like spending $$ on clothing is a faux pas.

I need to clarify that I am not a spend-thrift either, but I don't view the price tag on an item as the bottom line. either. I see purchasing clothing as just as important as paying for a house, cars and food.... I'm not sure everyone sees it that way. I get the impression that we have been trained as Americans to view our clothing purchases as "extras" rather than necessities.

Just the other day in fact, I was having lunch with a friend. I complimented her on her dress and she proceeded to tell me where she got it and how much she spent on it. Our lunch cost more than her dress. This friend's husband has a well paying job, they drive a very nice car and they take nice vacations. She can certainly afford to spend more on her wardrobe, but she won't. And her attitude seems to be the norm rather than the exception. Again, it's her business, I'm not being critical, and not intending to gossip, but I just don't get it....

This was an interesting thread.

Echo, I don't feel foolish paying full price for things in the US :).

Like Celia, I am used to a non-American way of retail. Sales twice a year and that is basically it. I find the frequent sales "deal" mentality of most US retailers a hard thing to get used to. For some - the "getting a deal" feeling is the fun part of retail, and I totally understand that too. For me, it takes the fun out of it. If I happen along the deal as I shop, that's a bonus. But I do not look for deals. I look for what I want, is best suited to my style, and suits my budget.

This thread has become quite an interesting read. And it does help me understand why price looms so large in many of the discussions on this forum. But I think that Celia and Queen Mum have made a couple of really good points.

The cycle of almost constant sales and markdowns is a relatively recent phenomena. Even in North America, up until a couple of decades ago, clearance sales existed for a only a few weeks at the end of each season to get rid of leftover items to make room for new stock. The "xx% off" marketing strategy was introduced to increase sales in the depressed economy of the 90s at more or less the same time as the growing availability of cheap, disposable clothing which could be manufactured off shore at a very low cost. These two factors, along with some retailers implementing a faster turnover in the fashion cycle, resulted in a complete change in how clothing was sold to the masses. Why spend $50 for a white shirt when you could buy one for $10, and, if the $10 shirt didn't last for more than a few wearings, there would always be a more current version that could replace it.

My own personal bent is that I don't like much like this type of marketing. I don't think it has much to do with looking fashionable. And I don't think that people who spend less per item automatically are necessarily more frugal than those who choose to spend more per item. Shopping can be as much recreational as it is a necessity. While I choose to spend my dollars on a few, well-constructed items, I can also see why others may choose to shop differently. But I do think that it something worth discussing.

Perhaps the reason some of the people can have the vacations, the private schools, and the nice cars is that they have made the choice to spend less money on clothes. I know that I have spent the cost of a nice vacation on my clothes this year, and I must say that in hindsight it makes me go "hmmm." Unless you are willing to take on debt, we all have finite resources and something's gotta give.

That said, I have a huge wardrobe. For 2013 I am planning to do a 12 x 12 challenge and really work on limiting myself to fewer, much higher quality pieces and trying to get away from fast fashion. (Stop laughing, Shoptoberfesters!)

Shoes are my weakness. I wear a size 4 and very few stores or websites carry them. If I see something I like, I know I have to snatch them up because they won't have my size by the time they go on sale. I justify this because I can also buy sneakers and ballet flats and hiking boots in the kids department.

I grew up with a mother who loved beautiful and well made clothes but would purchase these things in places like Lohman's basement and the lower East side for leather. I have always preferred small boutiques to department stores so I tend to spend more for a unique item, knowing I will not see myself coming and going and that the quality is likely to be high,
That being said, I am heading to Target shortly to stock up on some long sleeved T shirts for the winter.
I have only recently discovered the true joy of consignment store shopping and have really gotten some great pieces at incredible prices and this tickles me.

I do not save things "for good". Today is good.

I have tried over the last couple of years to not worry about the cost of items so much and get more of what I want and look for quality.
It hasn't been an easy task, I have been sick over items getting ruined after spending more than my usual $10 or less thrifting cost.
I have also seen some terrible quality deffects on some high end items that I ordered so ended up sending them back.

I don’t buy expensive – it’s a question of priorities.

My priority is travel: I want to see as much of this planet as I can with my very limited resources. Style definitely comes second. I still want to look stylish and I do my best to achieve that at the lowest price possible, which means shopping in charity shops and the sales at Wallis, Debenhams, Marks & Spencer and yes, price is one of the most important factors in my shopping. Do I miss the expensive stuff ? Not much.

I don’t buy expensive – except when I have to!

That’s exactly where lies the basic difference. Some women go for expensive/high quality for most of their wardrobe, from knickers and bags to coats and t-shirts.
At the other end, you have women like me who have a very short list of items that deserve the expensive treatment. Priorities again. Bad fitting bras are the worst sin in my style book. I buy good quality bras and I don’t even bother checking the sales because life is too short to rummage in buckets full of 32H when you need a 38D. For me, the Holy Grail of bras was something that would eliminate back fat. I recently bought 2 Unbelivabra that cost more than 100$ CAN each, but Holy Grail they are! Same with warm boots when I was living in Canada: I never hesitated to spend for such important items that made the winter (barely) endurable.

I don’t buy expensive – which doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate quality and when I find a nice pair of wool slacks in a charity shop, I know my luck.

However, I have reservations. How do we define quality ? Is there something like quality and then Plus Plus Quality ? Isn’t there a sort of overkill about quality ? Here are a few examples of what I mean by that:

1) Most of you will agree that a Kate Spade bag is good quality and you can get one for 350-500 US$. So when you buy a Chloé for 1500 US$ or a Yves Saint Laurent for 2500 US$, do you get 3 times more quality, 5 times more quality? Does quality grow exponentially? Is there a limit to quality?
2) I think we can buy a very good quality cotton t-shirt for 50 US$ and I won’t argue that the ones I bought in Walmart for 12 bucks are as good. But where does the buck stop? (pun intended). Do you really get that much more quality if you pay 250 US$ for a t-shirt ?
3) This link http://www.net-a-porter.com/product/318033 brings you to a Prabal Gurung printed t-shirt that costs more than 300 €. High quality? the thing is made of 100% polyester!

I find my self nodding as I read people's comments. Main points, as they apply to me:

- Budgeting/shopping as a function of upbringing. Yup, big influence there from parents who scrimped, saved, couponed, etc. But my mom was always trying to loosen my dad up to spend a bit more on quality.

- Constant sales. Like a good dog, I was trained to wait for sales because you know, the price always goes down in a few months in certain stores!

Being a single mom living in the Bay Area, I don't have much disposable income; I spend most of my money on high-quality food and kid-related expenses. However, I am appreciating the quality (vs bargain, although I do like a sale) thing much more now, and am finding I buy things at full price more often if it's exactly what I want and has the quality and longevity to support the cost. And I like to support local designers/small shops.

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses! Obviously, everyone has their own definition of quality in clothing, and their own algorithm for determining the value of an item in their life. And just as obviously, wanting or needing to spend your money outside your closet is an important consideration! IMO, these (and more) are all valid factors to keep in mind when we shop for clothing, or anything else.

But, I'm just going to say it, Bagaline - I think your mathematical breakdown on quality doesn't work. That's a whole new conversation, but emotional experiences don't break down that way. Think of it like this. Going to your local chain restaurant costs X. Going to a fabulous restaurant in Paris costs 100 times X. Both of them serve food that, when wisely chosen from the menu, nourishes the body. Is there an exponential increase in quality between the two? Here's another example. A trip to the local fair costs X. Going to Tibet costs 1,000 times X. Both are enjoyable cultural experiences. What's the quality breakdown there? It will be different to different people, right? Thus, the situation is not really quite so simple as saying, I can get a good purse for X, and the value stops there. I can get a nutritious meal here in Austin for $7. Or for $70 and up. The two are both good, but are very different experiences.

Also, I'm seeing quite a few comments that some are afraid of making "mistakes" when they buy. I just want to ask, how do you learn how to do anything, even how to comfortably and flatteringly dress a changing body, WITHOUT making mistakes? Lord knows I've made dozens and keep making them. The nice thing about clothing, unlike a bad trip or a terrible meal, is that I can resell it or give it to someone else and make them happy. At least, that's how I think of it!

I'm also wondering if some, on both sides of the issue, are putting 'good' and 'bad' associations on either spending or saving? I see it as a totally personal issue and choice, and neither is either better or worse in my book, but perhaps some are (maybe subconsciously) 'batting' for their position? Maybe I'm reading more into it . . .

I agree, Mo, that how one chooses to spend one's money is a totally personal choice. But I think IK original point was the number of YLF threads that reflected "a desire to spend as little as possible on an item - or more specifically, to dismiss or agonize over certain items based on price." and her interest in finding out if she was in a minority if price was not always her primary consideration.

Often it seems that those of us who willingly spend more on a single item get categorized as "big spenders" on their wardrobes. I'll be honest when I say that this assumption bugs me since I think my yearly clothing budget is probably quite a bit smaller than some of the bargain hunters. To me, buying a $20 pair of trendy booties that will be worn for only a season is a luxury that I can't afford. On the other hand, spending $800 on a winter coat that I'll happily wear for next eight winters is a frugal choice for me.

As far as 'batting for a position", I think we all can rationalize our personal choices on how big a wardrobe we need, how much variety we desire, how closely we follow trends, and, ultimately, how much of our income we choose to spend on ourselves and our wardrobes. It's interesting, however, to see how much variation there can be even in a smallish group and everyone's reasons for why they do what they do.

I totally agree it is interesting to see all viewpoints and all ways of building and buying a wardrobe. Not to stir the pot, but I must say "buying a $20 pair of booties that lasts one season vs. an $800 winter coat that lasts 8" is sort of supporting my point about batting for a position! Not to point to you individually, it is just an easy sentence to take and analyze. I bought a pair of Doc Martens oxblood boots at Ross for $39.99 at least 15 years ago, maybe 20. My point being, that bargain hunting does not necessarily go hand in hand with fast fashion, poor quality, or fear of mistake making. Again, I really don't mean to 'pick on' anyone and I hope it doesn't come across that way! Just raising some points I also am happy to see my BF buy his chukka boots last month for full $269 price from Nordstrom to wear with me at the Florence and the Machine concert. He only had Birkenstock sandals and dress wingtips here in FL, neither of which would do. So he needed his pair at that moment. We were both happy with our buys!

I think Traci said it perfectly...if you never balk at a price tag, you are obviously already shopping within your budget. If you do balk, perhaps you are pushing the limits of your budget.

IK, to me it seems like you're debating semantics. How is saying, "I cannot afford that or I wouldn't get my money's worth from that" better than "refusing to consider a high-priced item because of the price." Isn't it the same thing? I am baffled as to why you're baffled.

MPJ, neither one is better. To be more specific, I think there is a difference in evaluating item by item, and deciding if it is worth it to you, versus deciding only on the basis of price point.

I started this thread because I noticed that there was a YLF trend of saying items at a certain (usually higher) price point are simply not worth it, based on price alone. I feel this is much the same as dismissing things *below* a certain price point, based on point price alone.

Essentially I believe in an evaluation process, which many members have shared. Since "value" depends from person to person, the evaluation process is different from person to person. But it's interesting to see WHY someone will decide something is/isn't worth money. Does that make sense?

IK, my take is that above a certain price point, items become just too large a percentage of the overall wardrobe budget for some folks (myself included).

MPJ - Sure. That price point varies from person to person though, I think.

It's a very interesting discussion. I think it does have to do with upbringing to some extent. My grandma lived through the depression, then raised four children on her own after her husband passed away. She would occasionally take us shopping which always meant thrift stores or discount stores. My mom was the same way and still loves thrifted or sale items.

Maybe that's why I used to view clothing as an optional expense. I also love to save, so it was initially kind of hard for me to give myself a clothing budget of any kind. When I found this board I probably hadn't shopped for clothes in over a year. Things have changed a lot in the last few years though and I now have a nice wardrobe and almost no guilt over shopping. In fact, I enjoy it quite a bit!

Like anything in life, it's all about balance. I'm if I'm in doubt, sometimes I consult with my 80 year old self. Sometimes she says to go for it and other times to save it instead. You absolutely have to have your emergency savings and retirement on track first. Splurges (whether worth it in quality or not) are no fun if you'll have to pay for them later in other ways.

It's an interesting question, and I appreciate hearing everyone's take on it from different backgrounds and areas around the world. My parents were bargain hunters par excellence and a lot of my shopping behavior comes from those habits I learned as a kid. Part of me does enjoy 'the hunt' and feeling like I got a good deal. But it's a trade-off that you make, because you spend more time looking, and you may have to settle for a color or silhouette you wouldn't have picked if you didn't care as much about prices and sales.

Angie remarked about the constant sales cycle as a fairly new and American thing. I sew and Joann's, the chain fabric store, is notorious for sales practically every week. If you wait a month, the brand of pattern you want will be on sale for 30% of its usual price, and there are regular fabric and notion sales as well. Basically, if you are paying 'list' price for anything you're getting taken advantage of. Now, is it all a head-game? Probably. Joann's has to know what the 'real price' that most customers are paying is, and I'm sure that their margins are still there even at the sale price, or they wouldn't stay in business. If any of you shop at Kohl's you'll know they're very similar. I think on any given day, it would be hard to find something at Kohl's that's not on some sort of discount sale. It's a psychological play, like gas prices with the hidden .9 cents at the end.

I would be OK, I think, with a more European model where sales are less frequent and you could feel all right spending full price on something most of the time, because the prices are pretty stable. But the way it is in my local stores, I would feel foolish paying full price because there are so many sales and discounts.

I kinda wish I had had the experience of a more expensive item being "worth it" as far as quality and longevity goes, but generally I haven't. Take shoes, for example - I can tell the difference between a $20 shoe and a $50 shoe, sure, and I will be more likely to buy the latter because the former will tend to be less comfortable and fall apart faster. But I have not found any notable difference between a $50 shoe and a $100 shoe - my $50 shoes are often more comfortable and durable than my splurge shoes. Maybe my amounts just aren't high enough - if I tried $300 shoes and $200 jeans perhaps I would find them that much nicer than my normal price range items.

I know that throwing thrift/secondhand in there muddies the waters because then you're talking about items that may have been pricey on the first go-round but now are inexpensive to purchase. But that's where a lot of my purchases come from, which allows me the best of both sides - quality and low price. The trade-off is that I have to spend more time looking and I may not find what I want.

I think about this a lot, actually, because there are a lot of wealthy people where I live, and they are able to not even worry about how much they spend on clothes. Then there are people that are barely scraping by and thrift shop because they can't even afford Target and Walmart prices. Most of us are somewhere in-between, and we have to decide what we do with our income, and implicitly with our time. It's easy to say that you want to shop in line with your values and priorities, but it's hard to figure out what exactly that means. Do I want to optimize my time so I can do other things? Do I want to limit my budget so I don't have to work as much or work in a job I don't like but that pays well? Do I want to prioritize a hobby or traveling over clothes, or clothes over other things? The questions can go on and on (just like I am, so I'll stop).

Kristine said, "Splurges (whether worth it in quality or not) are no fun if you'll have to pay for them later in other ways." I agree. However, there have been a number of threads on the forum where people lament their eagerness to buy at thrift shops or on sale. A number of people (though not all by any means) have said that the items they spent more on or did not buy on sale are more likely to be closet favorites. So when we consider paying for something later in other ways, perhaps we need to consider the time, the thought, the doubt, the returns (or sometimes inability to return at some stores) and the orphans sometimes created by thrifting or clearance shopping.

I would never fault someone for finding a great price on something they really want, but I think we sometimes fool ourselves into thinking we really want something simply because it is on sale. A guideline I use for myself is asking myself if I would EVER have considered the item at full price. If the answer is not a resounding yes, then perhaps I am being influenced by the tag instead of the item itself.

There is an old saying that goes something like, "Buy the best and cry once. Buy cheap and cry forever." The basic idea is that sometimes those "deals" we think we are getting sometimes aren't as great as we convince ourselves they are.