Why do so many people "give up" on personal grooming? - YouLookFab Forum

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Why do so many people "give up" on personal grooming?

texstyle

(website)

Veteran

I went to a gathering last night and noticed a trend (one that I don't'
want to follow). So many of the women and men in the 40-60 age range
seem to have completely given up on fashion or on even reasonable
personal grooming. And some want to tout the fact, like they have bragging rights. One in
particular proclaimed, "I don't even bother with getting ready for work
anymore, I just jump out of bed and go." She meant it, and it shows.
What can you say to someone who says that? I mean I just sort of moved
along to another conversation, but really I wanted to suggest that
maybe she *should* bother a little more. She IS still working for a
living and in retail no less. Can it really be helping her sales when
she's looking so bad? Poor dental hygiene and no skin care combined
with rumpled out dated clothing is certainly not going to help her
close on customers. Her teenage daughter is seemingly following suit it
seems, which makes it even harder to watch.

Maybe I should just not care what the other people do, but it does
bother me that I see and hear this kind of thing more often than I'd
like. I wonder what drives people? It is just their laziness or maybe
they think it's a privilege of getting older or something? Or maybe
they are just depressed?

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46 replies

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ClaraT

Veteran

It makes me sad when (lovely educated talented) people I know hurt their career opportunities by their grooming/dressing habits. If someone cannot take care of details like dental hygiene or shaving carefully, it makes me hesitate to trust them with any job that required attention-to-detail or face-to-face contact. That said, I never say *anything* unless asked directly. Never never never. It is their body, their choice, and that's the end of it for me.
If you wish to say something, you can add your perspective without referencing their appearance ("Oh, whether I like it or not, how I present myself affects how people view me. I try to remember that dressing well and doing a good job are not mutually exclusive." This is true, but might be perceived as snippy :-0 ) Or share something helpful, again *not* referencing them: "Once I figured out a uniform of dressy pants and a nice blouse, dressing doesn't take too much time or effort." And if someone that falls in this category does make an effort, make sure and compliment him or her specifically on the improvement.
In short: I share your pain but advise treading carefully or not at all if you value your friendship.

Anonymous

I think you're right about saying they might be suffering from depression. Suddenly not caring about your personal hygiene and overall appearance is one of the symptoms of that. Let's hope she gets some help before her employer takes action.

Anonymous

Depression was the first thing that came to my mind, too. I hope she gets the help she needs.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Wow. That sounds very odd. To proclaim it, almost to brag about not caring -- that doesn't really sound like the voice of a depressed person to me, or at least I don't recognize that kind of depression. Nor do I really understand that degree of ...um..disinterest in appearance, for want of a better phrase.

Did it come across as a veiled critique of you? Sometimes I find that people who are intimidated by stylish ones in their midst will talk that way. It's probably why so many of us find it difficult to challenge the environmental norm. But when the environmental norm sinks so low -- when teeth are not even brushed -- then I think the only thing you can do is gently and quietly maintain your example, as you are doing. How uncomfortable.

Anonymous

I'm always curious about how and why so many people let themselves slide off this edge. Is it a case of it happening so slowly and over a long period of time that they truly don't notice how bad it has become? I see people all the time in the course of my day who seem to follow the "I just get out of bed and go" philosophy. I think it happens to people whose world is shrinking and they are losing touch with how they fit in out there - but your "Friend" has a job, which makes it even weirder. Grooming and self-care is sign of self-respect in my books. Depression, giving themselves that " I'm too old to care anymore" pass, etc - all probable causes too.

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

She could be depressed, or just really busy and overwhelmed. I've noticed there's a subgroup of women who never really enjoyed fashion, but kept up with it when they were younger because they felt like they had to, to land a guy or look like the rest of their friends or whatever. Then sometime in their late 30s or 40s, they just decide that they're not going to worry about it anymore, and focus on practicality and efficiency over any aesthetic concerns or other people's views of them. I have some sympathy for that approach, since guys are generally not expected to do all the things that women are, and it's a lot of extra labor and expense for women.

texstyle

(website)

Veteran

lisap - yes, it has happened over a period of time but I didn't even know her before, I just had the chance to see photos of her in an earlier time. It's not a close friend, just an acquaintance. And I'd never say anything publicly or directly about *her* appearance. But it left me at odds with what to say at all. She knows I don't *have* to dress a certain way as I work at home so maybe Suz is on to something there too. Maybe it's her way of trying to fit in when she feels as she's lost her ground?

But again, there were plenty of other people there who also obviously do not care too much about their appearance to others either. And I carefully dressed very low key, simple jeans and nice tee so as not to stand out.
I have to say, men seem to "get away" with it more, but I tend to notice things like 4 inch ear hair growth. :-D.

rabbit

Veteran

I feel like fashion and intentional style is a choice, and just not a priority or interesting for many people, and that's fine. For me it's the same as women wearing cosmetics, some do, some just don't want to go there or find it a hassle, and they don't need to go there in many professions.

I grew up in a household where you probably should brush your hair and put on clean clothes before leaving the house (and of course bathe and brush your teeth) but anything more than that was only 'required' for a special occasion. The most important things were your academics and your work life and real attention and thought was paid to choices about food or media consumption or politics, not what you wore except in regards to how comfortable it was. When you have very little time to make choices you prioritize. I'll admit it made for some teasing when I was a kid and embarrassment before I figured out how to choose clothes on my own so I could blend in more.

Environmental and workplace norms really vary. I could see how in customer/client facing workplaces, like many in retail, appearance is probably an important part of it, but then my devil's advocate wonders, in some positions are you being paid enough to care? Or in other positions do your other qualifications and skills make it a moot point? (see engineers, some grad students and college professors, programmers, etc.)

Anonymous

My MIL had depression, and she got this way, so no I don't think it's far fetched to say that depression might be playing a role.

Lyn D.

Veteran

I have no problem with those who dress comfortably and practically,
but everyone should pay attention to personal hygiene!

texstyle

(website)

Veteran

Maybe it is depression. But she is fairly outgoing and made a point to invite us over when we saw her at the grocery store - which is really reaching out for someone depressed.

I guess it's just one of those things as rabbit said - some people care about it and some do not.

Nebraskim

Veteran

My 2 cents: It may be depression. But there's also a sort of militant wing of women of a certain age (and I'm 60 so I guess I'm in the age cohort) who are just fiercely proud of "not caring what other people think" and letting you know they don't care. Personally, I think this is some odd defense mechanism but jeeze, I encounter this "now that I'm older I don't give an FF about what others think" a lot. There are whole memes on Facebook about this.

I get this negative commentary from my friends who think I am totally BIZARRE because I enjoy ironing, curating my closet and looking nice. They joke about how they don't even own an iron and "what kind of loser spends time ironing? I have better things to do with my time...blah blah blah." I feel like it's a put down to me, as if I'm so lame and shallow to care about how my clothing looks. They also tell me how much they hate to shop and how shallow that is, etc. They say they strive for comfort and ease ONLY. (I believe you can be stylish and comfortable without wearing sweatpants and baggy shirts, but that's just MHO.) And yet these are the same people who comment about how I have a great sense of personal style, they wish they had style, etc.

So I have no answers but maybe some commiseration.

abc

Veteran

It could be a regional thing, aren't you in Austin? Or did I make that up?

It could be normcore esque kinda stuff too.

Or depression, or laziness. We'll probably never know. All I know is my recent example - I travel for work and actually enjoy dressing up for travel days. No heels or uncomfortable clothes, but polished and well presented VS the rest of the world that flies in their sweatpants.

I agree and dislike the casualization of our culture - and this just seems extreme.

rachylou

Veteran

Oh, wait... she works in a grocery? I worked in a grocery. Not all groceries are the same, but there IS a faction that is what I call Salt of the Earth tribe and a lot of grocery people belong to it (along with other types). Grubby/harried IS the fashion. Not actually unclean usually, but everything has to have seen better days. Like you might be called back to the bush to feed the semi-wild livestock at any moment. My people are half from the bush. I like hanging in the bush and I like Salty people, but it's true... I was the one plucking chickens in Laura Ashley... Haha!

unfrumped

Veteran

It IS a little weird to talk about maybe skipping personal hygiene. Otherwise if it's just clothing comfort and not caring about "trends", I tend to hear different remarks, more specifically things like "tennis shoes are all I wear now" or clothing that doesn't bind, or knits or washable, or something you can relate to as a practical choice and maybe even carefully chosen for those reasons, and still clean and neat.

texstyle

(website)

Veteran

Nebraskim, I think you hit the nail on the head. It's like you said how many of them say things like "now that I'm older I don't give a FF about what others think" - and then they go on to criticize anyone who *does* try to look nice. Which makes me not want to spend time around them for the most part. Maybe that's what they are after! Ha!

It's only a certain percentage of the population - not totally regional I'd guess. I have a very good older friend (80) who dresses very nicely every time I see her - and she loves to shop and look her best. I spend much more time with her and others like her who share more of my interests.

But I still think it's a shame for humans to give up on grooming. Animals typically only give up on grooming when they are ill.

texstyle

(website)

Veteran

rachylou - you crack me up!

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

Upon reflection, claiming "I don't even bother with getting ready for work
anymore, I just jump out of bed and go" seems more like a boast about how irreplaceable she is at her job or how busy and important she is than a comment about grooming per se. I've known some guys like this, geekboy or programmer bro types, who think it's impressive to brag that they can work for 24 hours straight on energy drinks and microwavable ramen, and that of course they spend no time thinking about or taking care of their clothes, because really intelligent people have *more important* things to do and paying too much attention to how you look is shallow and for lesser folk whose only advantage is their looks. (As per rabbit's comments above, and I definitely grew up in a household that was mostly like that too.)

Nebraskim, my grandmother was like that as she got older, not necessarily primarily about clothes, but about politeness and social niceties. She'd spent her whole life being a polite southern church lady, and I think at some point she got tired of it all (maybe it's easier once most of your cohort has died). There's probably some post-menopausal aspect to it too; not seeing yourself as a sexual being in the same way as you did when you were younger, your body unavoidably changing, and a lot of women just get tired of doing a lot of personal appearance stuff that they always felt ambivalent about anyway.

I mean, there's grooming and then there's grooming. We all probably agree that everyone should shower/bathe every few days, brush their teeth, and occasionally comb their hair. But there's plenty more that's open to interpretation or requires a higher level of maintenance for some people than others. If it's humid, my hair's going to look 'unkempt' no matter how often I brush it. And some people (myself included) have naturally bad teeth, no matter how we take care of them. Some people have naturally clearer skin than others. And let's not even get started with the quagmire of who should remove body hair from which parts of the body and why...

Echo

Veteran

Did she SAY she did not brush her teeth or did nothing to (like washing) her face? Or was that assumed by taking the "roll out of bed and go" comment literally? I see scores of people who clearly don't care about their clothing beyond it being functional, but without body odor, yellow on the edges of their teeth (often indicative of plaque or tartar build-up), dirt on their face or body that isn't gone by the next day or them personally confirming it, I won't assume their hygiene is missing. I am positive that some of the people I see regularly wash, but that's about it.

Lack of hygiene can indicate secondary issues like depression, but if that were the case, then a social outing seems unlikely. Additionally, depressed people are usually painfully aware of how many things in their lives are slipping and they usually do not proclaim them for everyone to see.

I, too, have to wonder if she is finding some sort of newfound freedom in this sort of rebellion, or whether she is making a round-about political or gender statement.

Gaylene

Veteran

Well, just to share another perspective, an 80+ friend of mine was just as disgusted about the dress and personal grooming of a group of 30-40 year olds she saw at a restaurant recently. She was even more aghast when I tried to explain the distressed jeans, cold-shoulder tops, smoking slippers, purple lips, and choppy, messy hair were actually fashionable. She sat there in her impeccable, fitted suit and upswept hair shaking her head. Maybe it's all relative?

SandyG

Veteran

ALL healthy mammals groom themselves, and we're social animals so attention to grooming (ourselves and others) is intrinsic to all of us. No one lives in a hermit cave. Someone who is employed but doesn't groom doesn't make sense, does it? I'd look at brain shrinkage, or diabetes, which should be called a brain disease and makes for disordered thinking and very low metabolic energy. Perhaps she is impaired and slipping in ways she's doesn't realize.

(just my initial thoughts, not to sound too preachy)

Runcarla

Veteran

I remember seeing something in Psychology today, or some such magazine, that showed the progression (or regression?) of dressing and grooming over the work week - Monday through Friday. It seemed everyone started out with good intentions, but deteriorated a little as the week went along.

anne

Veteran

I have to admit I struggle with one daughter to get her to even wear clean clothes!!

Gigi

Veteran

It's hard to know; it could be anything. I grew up in a house where grooming was not very highly prized, and I found that after high school and college were over, I became less concerned about my personal appearance. I still did the basics, but I didn't care to really go beyond that (cheap haircuts, no makeup, very small closet of functional, boring clothing, etc.).

A few years ago, I felt drawn to dress more interestingly, and that led me to makeup and skincare and haircare and all that stuff, as kind of a personal makeover. What I found was that my self-esteem and overall happiness level increased dramatically. And someone I know who is a psychologist told me that when you get down to it, the biggest helps for women who are depressed are (1) exercise, (2) social activities, and (3) a makeover. It's not the most politically correct thing to say, but I think he is right. Women's self-esteem is often highly connected to their physical appearance.

Anyway, it's certainly possible that depression or a lowering of self-esteem could be the culprit in your acquaintance's attitude. Maybe she is struggling with feeling older and is depressed about it and has just thrown in the towel?

Jules

Veteran

Welllll, I'd argue that society treats women better when they look better. Interactions with the world are more pleasant. So even if your personal self-esteem is not that reliant on appearance, the world can get you down (speaking from experience here...).
Someone who aggressively tells you they aren't interested in clothing and appearance is in effect saying "accept me as I am, this is a choice I'm making". Is it that dissimilar from the person who tells the gourmet home chef "oh I don't bother with all that, I haven't turned on my oven in years?"
There are many women here who love style but reject the very notion of "pretty", and then other women who can't understand why being conventionally attractive wouldn't be your primary goal in dressing yourself.

Style Fan

Veteran

I am at a loss to know whether this woman has made a personal choice based on her beliefs or if she is intimidated by well groomed women as Suz suggested or if she is depressed. Or something else.
I find that if I wear make up and dress fashionably I get treated better when I go shopping. Is this "right"? It is a fact. I also like to make that effort. I don't expect it of others but I want them to bathe and brush their teeth.
I have friends in my age group (60s) who are proud of the fact that they hate shopping and don't wear fashionable clothes. They pursue academic interests. That's nice. I love shopping, I try to wear fashionable clothes, I wear make up and I am an academic. In that order.

Anonymous

You are so right, Jules. The one thing my mother taught me is that if I dress up, I will get treated better. I think that's true.

Helena

Veteran

I agree with Rabbit - for some people, this is just not an interest or a priority, or they truly don't see it (not this woman's case obviously, since she mentioned it). I wonder if she was exaggerating a bit too - like, maybe she showers before bed, and was more referring to doing her hair or makeup, rather than basic hygiene? I could say the same of myself many days in the morning - but I do shower later lol! Anyways, I'm not advocating it, but I do think there are people who genuinely don't give a rats; live and let live I suppose!! Although if she works in grocery, I do hope she at least washes her hands!!

catgirl

Veteran

This is a fascinating discussion. Where I live, you cannot tell anything about someone by how they are dressed. Just yesterday I saw an extremely successful friend and he was dressed like he was going snow-machining in coveralls and flannel, although he was actually going to his workplace. I've become far less focused on how people look than I was growing up on the East coast.

At the same time, I've got a 12 year old and am trying to impress on him the idea that how you present yourself matters and conveys respect for others as well as commanding respect in certain contexts. It's never black and white with these topics, is it?

I've also been involved in many conversations about whether public institutions like the court system should allow dress codes for employees that reflect the a more diverse public or should adhere to a more formal, objective standard. For example, will someone coming to court feel better represented if they see a clerk with a tattoo or a piercing (or are appointed a lawyer with purple hair)? Tell me what you think!

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