kkards - Yes I can see a difference in attitude between Anna and Grace. Anna has great posture. Grace seems more loose.
TammyB - what a great article! Tailoring is very important and wouldn't it be great to have a team to dress you. I love too that they look at the pics of the clothes on the actor on the screen which is what we learned to do here with our WIW selfies.
Staysfit - They both have such access to such well made clothes. It's an interesting comparison and the difference is subtle.
alaskagirl - I love that you own your RATE like no one else. That's probably why you can pull off twigs and dirt.
shevia - perhaps these polished folks are spending much more time in the mirror or self checking their cuffs.

Great read and revisit of this topic. I wonder, would you all say the Minimally Fab outfit Angie posted earlier this spring was polished? I ask for my own reasons because I dress very casually but would like to appear at least somewhat polished when going out in public. And if so, is it her makeup, hair and "less is more" style that makes it polished? Would messier hair totally make it unpolished? Some people mentioned frizzy, wavy, curly hair feeling more RATE. I think curls can be made polished if enough conditioner is used (or oil in my case). I do find it harder to put my hair up and look polished because of the layers not staying up. Or then my head hurts from being pulled "up" and I have to let it down mid-day.

I think I am inherently RATE rather I like it or not.

http://youlookfab.com/2016/05/.....mally-fab/

FWIW a couple of years ago I saw a tutorial--I think it was from J. Crew?--on how to roll up the cuffs of your jeans and then tweak them a little bit so they DON'T look perfectly even and symmetrical. That was when it sunk in that some people must be born polished, because I can achieve uneven but I could never get them perfect if my life depended on it!

It must be a magical alchemy between clothes and wearer... I'm a natural with the uneven cuffs and sleeves, messy tuck, frayed/torn/distressed/stained/ torn look, etc. This goes well with my fondness for post-apocalyptic looks - who has time to roll and tuck neatly during such times, unless it's to avoid a firestorm? I think Natalie and I are an example of that to some degree - she always looks more together than me even when we are wearing exactly the same items. I always wonder which is harder - going from RATE to polished or vice versa! That "studied RATE" look of j crew makes me smile too, LA.

I love this topic and the answers something different given from all YLF family as far as answers. I have no idea. I have a cousin whom is beautiful and well pulled together even in pjs and slippers.

I used to be envious of slim and plus size ladies who could pull that off. I think Once you find your style and you are comfortable with whom you are it falls into place.

I used to try and copy styles that I liked or loved now I just do me. I always get compliments but that does not even matter to me. What matters is if I feel pulled together I feel polished for my style. I feel as if I can hold my own.

It was and is a mental shift and adjustment for me. I don't think you are born that way. I think it is a purposeful intentional act to be the best you you can be.

texstyle - Not sure I'm the expert but I think the outfit is polished because it has straight lines, she has polished makeup, her hair is sleeked back, and she has paid attention to the details of the accessories. If she had frizzy hair that was let down I suppose it could have been more RATE.

I'm find polished very hard. I do wear tailored clothes sometimes but always end up scuffing it up somehow. I never blow dry my hair and often forget to brush it. At least I brush my teeth!

Hi Jeanie --

What an interesting discussion you've (re?)ignited!

Don't forget that "chic" fits in between polished and Rough Around the Edges. Think of all those surprised-sounding articles on how French women somehow achieve chic even with "undone" hair, natural nails/brows, minimal/no makeup etc.

[I remember them because I'll never reach polished but can aspire to chic, ha!]

Vix, you make an excellent point. I think I sometimes mistake the concepts of chic and polished. It is good to have them clarified.

My number one style icon is/was my aunt and she was the type of person who always had a quality about her I want to call poise. I think of poise as more than polish and more than posture. I think it's a mix of posture and being pulled together. The quality of her movements and her social skills were Impeccable. She made everyone feel comfortable.

Staysfit, that is what I strive for - poise or whatever you call that sense of ease and comfort with others. I just had the honor of hearing Justice Sotomayor speak and she personified that warmth and grace - like someone you could have over for dinner and listen to forever. What one is wearing is secondary to that kind of personality and ideally blends seamlessly with it whatever the style.

Right or wrong, I have it firmly in my head that only people with angular features can carry off polish on a regular basis, even in tee shirt and jeans, even while camping, or just rolling out of bed in the morning.

Note this is not about one's weight but their frame. Some of us are just naturally softer and rounder all over.... and/or fall well outside of the sizing curves requiring every last item to be tailored just so. Including that simple tee shirt or exercise gear. Which doesn't come in petites.

If your closet is full of crisp white button downs and you look fantastic in them..... you are probably naturally polished. If you cannot understand why these are a closet "must have' and can never find one that fits you right because there's too many fit points but even then maybe it fits just right but you are squirming all over because it's too darn crisp for your soft curves not angular... well... then you are RATE ...

Even when I was running marathons and lifting weights and was super fit...... I still veered more soft than angular, because that is my frame. My hair follows suit -- despite flat iron abuse, it waves and doesn't want to be crisp either.

I'm happy to carry off polish when I want to and feel willing to put in the effort for a day... but that is definitely not every day! That would be too exhausting. And fighting against what I was born with, naturally.

If you are polished, you never have b.o. Ever. And you look like you never have b.o.

Good clothes alterations can help a lot with polish, too. Unless you are lucky to be one of the few who doesn't need them. My shirt sleeves are always too long, so I've embraced that and either unbutton the cuffs or fold them up and clip them. It works fine with my look, but if I wanted to look polished, I'd find a tailor to shorten them. And ironing, too. I am too lazy to iron most of the time.

I'm sort of allergic to polish, honestly. If my outfit feels fussy to me (which would read as lovely and put-together and polished on anyone else!) I adjust without realizing, even changing my posture to be less upright. That used to come from feeling uncomfortable, and now it's a bad subconscious habit. I have great posture in my normal RATE clothes though!

I firmly believe that a perfectly groomed, polished--what I think of as "grown-up" look, though seemingly attainable with a bit of effort & will, is actually a thing some women are born with, like perfect pitch. For everyone else, a good haircut, careful makeup, clean, pressed, well-made clothes, etc, will not always add up to a whole equal to the sum of its parts. On me, for instance, they add up to a look that is nice enough, but always slightly askew, windblown, decidedly unpolished. I look at a photo of the beautiful fabber Carter in a sweater, trousers and loafers, and sigh. At my most carefully dressed, I will never look as effortlessly polished as Carter. And although I will always find her look inspirational, I'm OK with my harum-scarum self. Didn't the poet Robert Herrick write that, "A sweet disorder in the dress/ Enkindles a fair wantonness..." --or something like that?--so maybe there is something to be said for us unpolished types!

I think you can look wonderful with a polished look- or with a more casual relaxed look. I like to exist in the no mans land between the two but am trying to up the polished edge. If I ever too far in either direction it feels inauthentic.

I am among those who do not have a naturally polished look.
With effort, I can look reasonably well put together, but it seems no matter how hard I try, I'm going to chip a nail, or my hair won't turn out quite right, or I'll glance down and see that in spite of going over my sweater multiple times with the roll of sticky paper, it still has at least one pet hair on it!

Texstyle, that is a good question about the "minimally fab" outfit. I do agree that it looks polished, but if you added somewhat unruly, frizzy hair (like mine!) I think it definitely becomes more RATE.

Exactly how you create polish is still a bit of a mystery to me. I think that people are right when they say that it is just something some people are born with, and others are inherently a little disheveled. I try to look polished, but it takes a tremendous amount of effort, and I rarely accomplish it. I find that if I straighten my hair instead of wear it wavy, then I look much more polished.

I wonder how much of "polish" is also based on current trends. Right now, straight hair is really fashionable. Does that lead to a higher bar for what it means to be polished? I know that when I blow-dry my hair straight, I look more polished than when it is wavy, but when I go back in with a flat iron and "fine-tune" the blow-dry, then I look *really* polished. But that is fighting a lot of my genetic characteristics, which isn't really fair. As Texstyle says, I think you can help the curls-equals-frizz-equals-RATE situation by using some oil to smooth the frizz, but for people like me with fine hair, we lose all our volume, and then the hair is flat.

What Shiny says is true also, I think. If your body fits off-the-rack clothes well, then you will look more polished. But there are an awful lot of curves and angles on a person, and it is difficult to get off-the-rack clothing to fit perfectly for a lot of us. And a lot of clothing simply isn't worth getting altered, so some of us make do with a fit that is almost perfect but not quite. And that is RATE!

Such an eye opening post for me, thank you for all your comments - it's been an aha moment!

My personality leans towards polished - I love clean, tidy, uncluttered, crisp straight lines. But my hair is wavy (frizzy in the smallest amount of humidity), makeup never stays in place and my body is curvy. I always look a little RATE, especially in summer which is the season I find hardest to dress for.

So I'm going to take the words of wisdom which have jumped out at me and aim for poise, warmth & grace & maybe just a little bit of chic.

My hair has gotten curlier as I've gotten older, and with it I've become more and more RATE. Evidence attached. (Those pictures were taken almost 20 years apart, BTW.)

I think there are two parts two looking polished.

One part is innate. This is the part that Kitchener, Kibbe, and others call Classic essence (or similar verbiage). Women with a high proportion of this Classic essence look polished even in clothes that might look sloppy on others. It's in their facial features, demeanor, posture, etc. They come across as put-together even when they're wearing what for them is extremely casual. (Often what many others would call dressed up.)

The other part is the clothes. Excellent fit, good quality fabrics, cuts that flatter (not just fit length, depth, and circumference, but actually make the woman look more like herself; complete harmony), the right textures, and colors that work well for the wearer. When women with a low or no percentage of Classic wear clothes that fit the above description, they are often described as "chic" or "stylish".

When the two parts come together, you get the super polished look that has an almost regal quality. Certainly patrician.

Can I "ditto" exactly what Kiwimom said?

Fascinating discussion. Maybe I could add a couple of comments from my experience as someone who struggles to be messy.

I tend towards polished and can come across as intimidating - despite being a small, blonde hourglass. To soften my appearance a little I often keep my hair soft (create a little "fussiness", use a wide tooth comb to tie it back) and like to wear linen. I find linen is beautifully crisp when ironed but is also soft if it is left unironed.

My messiest outfits just do not suit/fit by body - and I will not wear them until I have tailored the items to fit properly.

I think a lot of my "polishedness" comes from my attention to detail, which is a result of my nervousness and need to feel like I have done everything I can to be prepared.

BTW, one of my favourite outfits is a maxi skirt, t-shirt and shoes. I tuck the t-shirt (any color) into my cream/black maxi skirt. My maxi skirt almost sweeps the ground (...I like it this way...) so I just make sure the shoes coordinate - usually black ballet flats.

I agree with what Alexandra said. After years of careful examination of people's style, I'm now sure that the foundation on which a polished look can be built is first and foremost a well-proportioned body type, regular facial features, good posture plus a sort of innate balance that (strangely enough) usually goes together with this body type. That is what Kibbe calls "classic" type. These rare people tend to look amazing even (and especially) in the most simple clothing if it fits right.... Now I finally came to terms with the fact that I'll never reach that level of polish or sophistication because I simply don't have the right foundation for it. I'm Kibbe's type "natural". My clothes have to be somewhat relaxed in order to look good on me. Well... this does not mean that I cannot look stylish! I'm trying to keep it easy and relaxed but not too casual.

I think there's an innate quality that's essential. I think Angie is polished and when you get right down to it...Kate Middleton is not. I know, I know. She has to be the most groomed living person on earth, her style is lovely. But she is not, in fact, as crisp as you can get...

Which also makes me wonder, Rachy. I don't equate "polish" with "crisp." I associate it with clean lines, either drapery or crisp.

Fascinating discussion!

Thanks Jeannie for starting this topic. You've brought me out of hibernation. I went back 5 years to Alakagirl's initial thread about the topic and I found it interesting to read my original opinion:

I think polish means = deliberation and effort put into clothing & grooming resulting in an overall well-dressed appearance, regardless of the style. To me RATE means ... a non-deliberate look that is rough and disheveled resulting naturally from an activity.
In other words, the minute you work at looking RATE, you are on team polish to me.
But I think what everyone else is saying is that these two looks stand on their own whether deliberate or not. So you can look polished, whether deliberate or not, or you can look RATE, whether deliberate or not.
Did I finally get it? ; D

And here's what I said when Angie blogged about it:
Although I count myself on team polish– even on very casual days — I am one who deliberately goes for an effortless chic look. Is having a style goal of effortless chic/cool the same as RATE? But going for this effortless look requires some effort as we all know and I think the effort is what makes me bat for team polish.

Ultimately I have rejected my notion that effort = polish as too simplistic. There are definitely people who just look more one way or the other.

As for myself, I have decided that this does not exist in absolutes. It is a continuum. (Sally from NZ said this upthread.) And I feel right in the middle. I like having my clothes clean, I like a pedicure and manicure (although I don't wear color on my hands). But, no matter what I do, I cannot keep my hair in a style. It refuses to hold any style even when in a ponytail. It gets messy and wispy in no time. And, my makeup smudges while lipstick will not stay on for more than a few minutes. If I didn't make the effort to wear any makeup I wouldn't look polished at all I think.

I think we are using the same term to describe very different things.

Polished can mean neat and tidy, but it can also describe a refined, elegant, every-hair-in-place style. A "polished" style can describe a preference for tailored, lady-like, crisp clothing, but it can also refer to careful attention to small details and impeccable grooming. As Rachylou also points out Anna Wintour's version of a "polished" style isn't Kate Middleton's, although both might be viewed as having a "polished" public persona. What one woman sees as "polished", another woman might view as restrictive and artificial. A highly "polished" look fits some, but not all, lifestyles or personalities.

Instead of seeing a "polished" look as a goal, I'm more inclined to view "polish" as something a person adds or subtracts from her look depending on circumstances and preference. Polish, to me, is about the choices we make when we put ourselves together. Some people will add a lot, while others might just add enough to be presentable for the occasion.

Hmmm... Interesting discussion. I try to look well put together, but I have uncooperative hair and a soft body type (except for my face). I don't think I ever look polished, but I am well groomed.

Here is a thought then, put in my head by Gaylene: I'm so inherently RATE. Terrible wavy cowlicks, always something going a little wrong with the wardrobe... I used to often wear a bit of patent leather - shoes - to counteract this facet of my presentation, to 'add polish,' and make me present-able.

The presentable part... I find in polish a requisite quality of civilization...

I am so interested in this conversation. I am just not a polished person. I think it requires a level of attention to detail and grooming that is beyond what I have the patience/interest for, and also, I agree with others that it is somewhat inherent. I am a hot mess. I spill all over myself when I eat and drink. I move always at a fast pace and am often sweaty. I live an active life and my short nails cannot hold onto polish and break constantly.

I wish none of this were true, of course. I wish I was polished and elegant, but I've come to accept 'cute' and 'quirky' instead.