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What is "timeless" ?

Isabel

Veteran

I tripped across this 2.5 year old article the other day and it really resonated with me. "Timeless" has always confused me, for some reason. Nothing seemed to be truly "timeless" to me. Tastes change, lapels change, feet grow....so it was very confusing as to what to really spend on and what "wearing forever" really meant.

The question from Rhubarbgirl recently on our expectation of clothing longevity got me thinking about this again. I have learned here, that the things that I wear the most ( except for the summer because I wash them so much ), should really be where the money goes. At the same time, I love the idea of a "novelty basic". It seems appropriate. For example, my black merino wool sweater can have an interesting cut or design. It meets my basic, core need yet looks modern. But does it have to last 10 years ? Not if I wear it often, I think, and that is ok.

I like how this article puts it into perspective for me :

http://www.thechicfashionista......eless.html

Dressing

27 replies

Latest reply was from E

unfrumped

Veteran

Good article!
i sometimes need to parse "timeless" as to whether it's an enduring style or whether a single article of clothing will endure for "quite a few" years.
When we talk about buying quality and somewhat more expensive items of clothing, it seems crazy to think of that for just one or even 2 years.
Good blazers, boots, cashmere sweaters, wool trousers. Not talking about having any problems adding trendy items here and there, but the wardrobe backbone. Wouldn't these items have to last 3-4 years, or even more, in order to afford something better than fast fashion, and sometimes what's worse, to not have to shop constantly and then also constantly re-configure the supporting act items?

Then I think the article made a strong point for the idea of timeless style , which may be different from the actual specific article. So blazers in some style
are timeless; dark wash jeans, though fit might shift a bit; Breton top but maybe one year it fits looser, one year longer-- even ballet flats might have features that look more or less current--though some of that is hard for me to pinpoint.

The timeless style that is right for the individual is easier for me to understand than is the idea of, how can I choose a specific item that I think I'll be able to count on 4 years from now?

Anonymous

Sometimes I'll watch and older movie and the costumes look like they could easily be worn on the street today. That calls to mind the work "timeless" to me.

Also, when I see an outfit that would be as appropriate for a 70 year old to wear as an 18 year old, I might call that a "timeless" outfit. I'm not sure if my associations with the word as correct or not.

As Angie has said, even classic items date. The trench coat of the 1980's is not the same cut as the one being worn today. But each one has/had a high longevity factor.

I'm hoping this discussion will really take off. It's a subject that's near and dear to my heart. Thanks Isabel!

Anonymous

Hmm, interesting article and to hear your thoughts too. Like you, I wonder about tastes, styles and trends continually changing, so 'timeless to me means possibly a particular item as in trench coat, but yes, the details like lapels etc change. I'm not sure anything can therefore be absolutely and completely timeless as a stand alone item. I like the idea of using the term as an umbrella term for basics and essentials such as a white tee, a pair of jeans etc.

MsMary

Veteran

Isabel, we are on the same wavelength today! As I posted on another thread a few minutes ago, I think our own Una completely nailed it last year in this post: "A item like a navy blazer might be classic, but a particular blazer is not timeless. So classic refers to a genre (whereas dated is not a genre but an adjective, so they are not oppositional as I'd imagined-i.e. its not dated vs, classic but a 'dated classic')."

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Isabel, I also like the idea of including some "novelty basics" (or maybe what Angie would call "essentials") in our wardrobes. They help us stay current while also remaining true to our core style.

An example. A dark turtleneck is for me, an absolute wardrobe essential. I pretty much couldn't get through a winter without such a thing in my closet, given my climate, my body type, my lifestyle.

Over the years, most of my dark turtlenecks have been fitted or fairly fitted, and in lighter weight knits. (Though I also own a boxier cut cashmere one that I inherited from my husband's closet -- he shrunk it and it now fits me -- and is 40 years old!!!)

Anyway....last year I also bought a heavier weight, colour blocked, looser fitting dark turtleneck with a hi-low hem.

It's just different enough to be current. But it's still a wardrobe essential.

As for timeless? Denim is timeless. The specific cut of the jeans is not. A white button front shirt is timeless. The cut of that shirt is not.

I think you're right (or the author of that article is right) -- once we've identified our personal essentials, and stocked our closets with those, it becomes easier to riff off them and add some "novelty" items that will have decent staying power in our closets -- that will last at least as long as the trend lasts and will make us feel like our better, more current selves rather than like some weird poseur, LOL.

Sal

Veteran

It is an interesting one because I have not always identified the items that have had staying power. I find sometimes quite a statement piece can withstand trends and be timeless. I have a colourful silk draped top that fits this category, and a raspberry silk suit. They are not really fashionable, but definitely not dated...and I will hang onto them for a long time. I don't wear them often, a year might go by without wearing them, but I know they will be perfect again in the future and I get a thrill from wearing them.

While I am not a highly fashionable dresser, I also do not have many of the classics in the wardrobe. I do not have a classic trench nor a white shirt nor a cashmere sweater. But I agree with the others that these items can date...although it can take a while. White shirts have been fitted and loose, longer and shorter, with big and small collars.

gryffin

Veteran

Isabel - this is a fascinating question, especially to me, since I tend to keep my clothes for a long time. One line that particularly resonates with me from the article - is that timeless is what looks good on you. Timeless must also transcend season and be very versatile. I think that rings true for me. When I really find a piece that fits and flatters, I am not going to pass it on (like long jackets) because "fashion" has moved on. If I did that would that not defeat the whole goal of "personal" style"? What I do is style that piece in different ways. I the 90's I wore my long jackets with miniskirts, tights and booties. Now tunics, sheath dresses, leggings and boots/booties. As my eye shifts with fashion I simply adapt my look to what calls to me now, even though my style "north star" still remains true. This is how my singular vision feels current to me. BTW - the long jackets that have survived to date - have a very similiar cut to my new Theory marcela and upscale jackets that I can't afford like Band of outsiders, Ann Demeulemeester, Maison Martin Margeila, Chloe, Marni and others. So I may be fringe but I do feel a little smug that I'm fringe with some illustrious company!! But I am onery enough that I'll wear what I like and feel good in even if I had no company, thank you very much!! I'd rather feel good and be me. So timeless is what ticks my boxes, looks good, is versatile, well made and necessary to my look - but my timeless won't necessarily look like anyone elses - if that makes sense!!

rabbit

Veteran

Good points, and I take from gryffin's and Suz's points that (if I understand correctly) what is timeless for them is a wardrobe essential for THEIR personal style, something part of their taste/preferences that doesn't change as much with trends (although it can be tweaked), but not something that can necessarily be applied to other people, although perhaps to those who share their style identity and body type.

gryffin

Veteran

Yes and no rabbit. I think some styles are iconic, like the tux jacket. But what makes a specific tux jacket timeless for me is that mine must be trans seasonal, work with a variety of silhouettes, fit must be totally plumb and it must look amazing on. Currently, I have two cropped HL jackets and a JCrew tuxedo jacket. I am sure I will style them diffently with time - right now narrow skinnies and ruffled tux tank, or leather leggings tunic and stompy booties are favorites but I think those pieces have longevity. For me Suz's black turleneck is my black crew neck Jackie shell from JCrew. A great black tank is timeless for me. A sheath or shift dress is considered classic but only one that fits your body, color scheme, fabrication needs will be timeless. I think there are iconic elements that transcend era but fit and flattery make them uniquely timeless purchases - but a great jacket or cardi, a great supporting underlayer I would think most people would find them helpful players in their wardrobe.

Caro in Oz

Veteran

http://youlookfab.com/2012/10/.....ess-items/

This post really sorted it for me. Even classics have to be modern

cheryle (Dianthus)

(website)

Veteran

I was thinking along the same lines as I cleaned out my closet. We often talk about investing in quality pieces that will last but fashion changes. A few years ago, fitted was the way to go. Now those fitted $150 button front shirts are dated because a more fluid fit is more current.

I no longer think there are clothing items that are timeless. There are classics but even those don't always pass the test of time. Perhaps the real secret is to buy what you love and wear it until the love affair passes.

crutcher

Veteran

Timeless means having the confidence to wear what the voices say you shouldn't...Timeless means wearing the clothes that speak to you and help you define who you are trying to be today..Timeless relies on classic to create the look...All of these are true and in addition, for me timeless keeps coming back to confidence in your look...This may mean wearing (gryffin) the longer jacket of the 90's but you wear it with pizazz and you don't need to ask me if it is ok for you to wear it...That to me is true timeless fashion...You have made a fashion statement....You have finally arrived at a point of knowing who you are, what you wear looks absolutely wonderful, and whether it does or it doesn't, you really could care less..Because...you feel wonderful....That is timeless to me...

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

I don't know, crutcher. I know several women who are confident with their looks, but they haven't changed them in decades. I'm glad they're happy but to other people they look like they've stepped out of a time warp. They're not doing any harm and if they're ok with it it's fine, but they don't really look like they're aware of the passage of time, even if they are very aware and current in other parts of their lives.

I am becoming increasingly convinced that there is no such thing as investment dressing. Even the shrinking percentage of women who wear suits to work every day have to update their suits every few years to reflect different cuts and silhouettes (as do men, for that matter, even though the differences aren't as dramatic).

So what is timeless? Sure, there are iconic pieces that shift in and out of popularity, like the Chanel style jacket, button front shirts, LBD... And of course jeans. If you had to pick one item that epitomizes longevity in fashion, it'd be jeans - but even they are waning in popularity right now, apparently. And of course shapes, fit, and color on jeans change constantly, not to mention fabric - when we're talking about knit jeans are we even talking about jeans anymore?

Marlene

Veteran

The discussion of how to define all these fashion words makes my head spin. Classic, Timeless, they are all so open for interpretation. You cannot call something timeless and then say that it will only last 2 -4 years. And every time someone says their style is "classic", they always amend that with "modern classic" or "classic with a twist". So now I really don't know what classic means. Classic in the 80's was different than classic in 2014. I like Angie's tendencies of using words like "basics" and "essentials". Everyone needs (work with me here!) a black blazer. That is a closet basic. But my black blazer is more contemporary than most others. But its still a basic for ME. I know its only going to look fresh for 2 - 4 years when I will freshen it up with whatever I like at that point. But the concept of black blazer is timeless. The style of the black blazer is not. So to think that an item of clothing will last forever because it will never go out of style is not something I can get my head around.

rabbit

Veteran

I agree that there are a very few things that are iconic AND timeless (I'm thinking converse and Doc Martens and maybe simple vee neck cashmere sweaters, things that have had remarkably unchanging staying power).

I also get classic basics, and that they need to be updated for styling details even if the overall category of garment (black blazer, plaid shirt) continues to exist in style in some form.

I have a bit of difficulty with the word 'essentials' unless they are very broadly defined like Angie did in this mornings post ('oversized fits' and 'current booties' leave lots of room for individual style and interpretation).

For example a black blazer isn't an essential for me, nor is a white button down (I have neither) since they just don't really correspond to my lifestyle, work and style goals. Sometimes I look at lists of essentials and only one or two are things I could apply to myself rather than an amorphous vision of a fashion magazine woman.

crutcher

Veteran

Laura, I see how you could have misunderstood what I tried to say..To me timeless walks hand in hand with what is the current style..Perhaps you have a Chanel bag that has withstood the years and you pair it with leather skinnies, an oversize top and boots...Or you have a blazer from the 90's that just looks wonderful on you..pair it with a pencil skirt, silk blouse and a vest...with knee high boots...
My definition means that what you wear doesn't look like a time warp and that you are stuck in the last decade..rather, it looks like you have the courage to include the piece as a compliment to your latest style...
Sorry when I read my remark again with yours, I saw how it wasn't just how I meant it...smile

Isabel

Veteran

Wow, great thoughts here !

Laura, I think that I may be at the point of not believing in "timeless" anymore either. I almost feel as if I have been "misled" for decades on it. I have never really like the term "investment" when it comes to clothes. " Timeless" and keeping good clothes for "special occasions" have caused too many things to look dated and not useable.

Mary,YES, I love what Una said....and what Angie said ( thank you Caro ). I especially love Angie's take on something not really fitting in anywhere and therefore being timeless because it is "offbeat" so to speak.

In the end, I want things that are durable, wear well and are useful ( and good to look at...).

Dianthus, I couldn't agree more that my heart would break if I bought a white shirt or a coat or anything for a couple hundred dollars at it was obviously "out" in a couple of seasons' wearings. UGH !!!!!

Marlene, my head spins too. LOL. This is important to me right now because I feel as if I have spent so much of my life being told by media, consultants, style gurus, etc. that things are "timeless", "you will wear it forever", "it never goes out of style" or even "investment" dressing...and I feel as if I have been taken for a bit of a ride. : ( ( Disclaimer : NOT true here at all !!!! )

Sal

Veteran

I love what you have said Crutcher. I agree with this wholeheartedly. All of us on the forum are interested in clothes - some lean towards the fashion forward, some retro, some classic, some quirky, some casual, some figure flattery, and most of us a mix of the above to suit our real life.

I love it when I see people wearing what suits them and what they love, whether it is highly fashionable or not. It is mixing those pieces with a current hairstyle or pair of boots that make fashion so fun.

Isabel

Veteran

Crutcher, we posted about the same time, so I hadn't seen your post. You are absolutely correct, IMO. And it dovetails so well with Kiwi. How true, Kiwi, if one's haircut looks current and maybe the makeup, that goes a long way. ( And true of bags and or shoes. )

E

Veteran

Loved reading this post!

One thing that occurred to me re: 'investment' dressing is that it might work better in a smaller closet. So let's say you need a blazer: you can either spend all of your money on one 'perfect' one or buy 2-3 less than perfect ones. If you only buy 1, even if after 3-4 years it looks dated, you'll have gotten lots of use out of it, because it's what you wore every time you needed a blazer. And every time you wear it you'll enjoy its presumably higher quality/better fit for your lifestyle. Ditto for a dress shirt: if you wear it enough it'll probably need replacing by the time the cut looks dated.

I think I manage to bypass a lot of the dated worries by dressing more quirky/vintage. So that's another approach to timeless clothing. Of course, it wouldn't work in a business casual office!

Elly

Veteran

I would rather talk about basics and essentials than other things, and like "classics" over timeless. "Classics" are styles that come out decade after decade despite new lapel shapes --- classics are often inspired by menswear, but not always and are variations on a theme. They are the things that I could wear in today's cuts but also find in photo album pictures of my mother and grandmother -- simple blazers, turtlenecks, button front shirts, plaid, stripes, checks, and polka dot prints, blue jeans, slacks, full skirts and pencil skirts, sheath dresses, loafers, oxfords, pumps, etc. Things that change with the times but their integrity remains the same. It doesn't mean that they don't date-- they do, nothing lasts forever-- but it is that their is this level of always being present, or being not far off the radar-- things that come back reincarnated time and time again.

Basics and essentials differ from person to person and aren't timeless except in that for many people they are variations on a theme -- as Suz mentions, frequently folks find something they can't get dressed without and keep one in rotation throughout the years but the cut changes with what is in fashion and therefore current looking and readily available. If you truly can't get dressed without it, I don't think the cut matters as much because you are going to wear it out, even if you buy high quality. My basics are blue jeans, crew neck layering tees, button front shirts, knit skirts for summer, etc.

Then there are items that aren't basics, but maybe they are essentials -- they aren't your everyday pieces but they are the things hanging in your closet that combine with your daily stuff to cover all those unexpected events in life. The dress slacks, LBD, festive dress, accesories, pumps, etc.

rachylou

Veteran

For me, I say timelessness is about style. I buy (ironically) the same Timex watch over and over again. It's not, by contrast, about durability - a single coat that lasts for decades.

Now I do find it interesting putting more money into things you wear a lot. You'll notice I buy Timex, not Rolex. When I use things a lot, they need replacing a lot. On the matter of watches -- I lose watches. I like to wear one every day, but because I work in production environments, it comes on and off, on and off. Something always happens. The idea of spending $4000 several times a year on a watch ... no, never gonna happen.

I do put money into dress shoes, even tho they don't last that long for me, since I often fail to change shoes to walk the dog after work (or before work). Dress shoes and coats. I'm of that ilk that thinks nice shoes and coats carry a person the furthest of all sartorial items. Flip-flops will take down a Savile Row suit; but Ferragamos will rescue your ill-fitting beefy tee. That, and also, because I'm so so cold all the time - this is mostly what's on display. Many people never get to see anything but my shoes and coats, LOL.

After that, I'd put money into sweaters because those can last a long time for me and that's the next layer of visibility... although, you know, the sweaters I love to wear most always come from Forever 21, and they're junk. They last a year and fuzz up. But they're always cozy and stylish.

I'll blow the bank on a statement piece. A single-wear special occasion dress. When it's time for a spectacular spectacle, you just have to go all out. No mumbling!

rachylou

Veteran

Oh I just thought of something: There are timeless things, classic things - a general idea that remains true, but the form actually gets tweaked during different eras.

And then... and then there are the quintessential things. Things whose form is not tweaked. I think my Timex watches are quintessential. I'd only ever need one, if only I wouldn't keep donating them to Aramark.

rabbit

Veteran

We might be watch twins rachylou. I've worn the exact same Timex (different ones as they bite the dust, same make) since my teens. Mine has a silver metal stretchy band, and that glow in the dark feature when you push the winder (I might be irradiating myself?)

Isabel

Veteran

E, that reminds me of what Angie said, " Vintage items are timeless when worn with a big dose of Modern " and that "avant-garde" is eccentric enough to always be "timeless". That rings true to me...and it is a good way to get around the whole "is in 'in' ". I think that your point is very good about a smaller closet. I think that it is also very important in one's lifestyle. As a SAHM , I need fewer clothes and my black blazer doesn't need to be top notch. I am also much more willing to experiment with lower end clothing than I would do for work.

Elly, that is an interesting distinction. It made me think that for me that is what really describes what I do. I have always owned a black blazer, but those "subtle" changes over the years can speak volumes. So it is not forever.

Rachy, brilliant !!!! Absolutely price point doesn't always point toward quality. That has been particularly true as companies known for "quality" have become public and it is about volume. I also have Timx watches. They are good quality and have some great styles ! At least for me, there is a point where it crosses over to being too precious to wear. Or too ridiculous ....lol !

This is why I don't do well with lists of "must have " items. : )

Isabel

Veteran

LOL...irradiation...illumination...same thing....LOL

E

Veteran

Isabel that's a good point! If I needed nice suiting to be successful in my profession, I'd definitely be a work wardrobe minimalist due to the cost of those gorgeous suits. As it is tho I can wear less fancy things w/o any negative impact, so I get to enjoy a much larger secondhand wardrobe. And it doesn't give me a heart attack when my dog jumps up on me during a walk!