Vix - love the comparison with nature, and the assessment as less cultivated versus more cultivated. I'm totally running with that definition. Thank you!

Each does have its own beauty, and the less-cultivated is definitely more "me" than the well controlled.

Fun read! I would agree with Angie that EA is polished with very natural/RATE hair, so bats for both teams (I am the same way, hair and all). I tend to go for simpler lines, clean cuts, very minimal make up (just mascara and lip tint), but my hair is always wild and that's a pretty key aspect to my look. I put myself smack in the center of the spectrum, with a skew towards polished because that seems to be more natural to me as flaily and messy as I am. EA is certainly one of the gals whose style I admire. I absolutely think you can give off a rocker vibe and be polished, FWIW. That's one of my own goals Personally I strive for a polished, but easy and relaxed (which adds the RATE half back in), rock inspired look. The wearer does seem to be a big part of the end result.

You posed an interesting question, amiable, and one I've been wondering about myself. I think I'm one of those inherently polished people and, while I'm drawn to RATE, I would find a totally RATE look difficult to achieve. But today I wore an outfit that I consider RATE for me - a soft washed-out worn-in looking button front denim tunic belted with a pebble-grain bronze belt, brown tweed pencil skirt, brown tights, brown distressed leather lace-up booties, copper bendy necklace and leopard look "wrap strap" watch with a combination of dull metal and rhinestone studs.

What I think makes it RATE: the worn-in look of the tunic, the distressing on the booties, the copper necklace, the studs on the watch band.

What isn't RATE: the tunic is not really washed-out or worn-in - it's new, it came that way, and I ironed the wrinkles out of it before I put it on; the belt kept the tunic neatly cinched all day; the skirt is very classic in pattern and style; my hair and make-up are not at all RATE.

So I'm thinking maybe today's outfit was PRATE (PolishedRATE) or RATE-ish.

P-RATE - LOVE it, Blonda!!

Vix, I get the cultivated/ wild distinction, but I'm not sure I buy it. Because for those of us for whom polish comes naturally, it's not actual WORK and doesn't take particular cultivation. As Blonda suggests, we actually have to WORK and exercise control of some kind to look a bit more RATE!

I do think hair texture and cut can play a big role here. It's not definitive, but curly or wilder hair can more easily appear RATE.

Ooh good point Suz - I had thought about the effort that it takes me to appear polished, but not thought about the effort that a naturally polished person would have to put in to appear RATE.

And you're right, hair texture does have a lot to do with it.

And thanks for chiming in Aida, I was hoping you would comment, since I really like your style.

Also good points bionda. I think my look is unintentionally RATE - in that, I don't like I'm RATE and I mean it, I'm just disheveled. I want to look more intentional - whether RATE or polished. But I'm naturally RATE, and even when I go for polished, I look disheveled....

My new goal is to learn to look RATE without being frumpy, and have it look intentional

Hi Suz --

My wild vs cultivated framework is more about the outcome or perception, not the "input."

As you say, some have farther to travel if they want to go against their natural state than to stay within it!

I think it's a bit more like the difference between a cottage garden and a formal English garden. They both take planning and cultivating, but the effect one goes for is different.

He, just found this thread - and thanks Zap for the rocker chic description It's my aim but not always my outcome I will admit to less than 2 minutes spent on my hair, but I am particular about nails and eyebrows, etc. Not sure where that leaves me. I won't iron but twice a year, but then I don't own those kinds of pieces, either. Hmmm . . .

This was an interesting read...I'm struggling to find a style focus for myself and started searching old threads.

I know one thing - that any style I focus on has to be RATE because:

• I cannot do anything about my hair fly-a-ways, short of oiling my hair down like a grease monkey (not my best look).
• I don't have that long, lean body-shape that says "polished."
• I pretty much only take high-quality things for tailoring. And I've never found a superior tailor in my area. Which means, I wear a lot that's not perfect.
• I'm a 'more is more' type; I don't have the will for 'less but better.'
• I have this idea about taking any ol' thing and being able to wear it with panache instantly. I *toss together.*
• There is always something askew about me. Once I'm dressed, that's it. There will be no touch ups, no going home to change, no fussing. You live with what you get...

This was an interesting read! I think I naturally skew rate/cottage garden/unpolished, and most of my wardrobe has a worn look/feel to it. Plus I sit around in my clothes a lot, or have a pup in my lap, so even if I ironed the crispness wouldn't last long. Luckily I enjoy a touch of the rustic in my style and don't have to abide by a dreas code so it's not a big deal. I aim for the RATE of a declining English country gentry, although that sounds pretentious out loud! By that I mean my sweater may not be polished but it's goos thick wool and geta the job done. So I guess I like wearing quality fabrics in very relaxed ways.

Interesting thread, Amy. Have you ever thought of yourself more in terms of "natural" than rate? Also, I tend to think in terms of a continuum -- with distressed, edgy RATE on one end and ladylike polish on the other. Natural might fall a bit more toward the center.

What an interesting read!

I hope you don't mind me digging up this thread again, but I was thinking about RATE vs. disheveled; RATE as it relates to rocker chick chic; how RATE/ Polished might fall on the Perceiver/ Judger scale on the MBTI... I still don't really get it.

I can't help but feel that RATE ~ which I consider myself to be ~ is inferior to Polished. (My late parents were naturally very polished people and I can still hear them sigh over my RATE self. LOL) Sloppy, ill-fitting, weird, unkempt are some words that spring to mind and I want to "reframe" RATE in my mind as something equally positive to polished. Of course, most style icons are polished, so finding some more who are RATE would be a nice start. Many French women seem to be able to strike an exemplary balance between RATE and Polished: eg. like Emmanuelle Alt, Jeanne Damas has polished clothes but often has RATE hair... I think?

I am definitely RATE but do not have an ounce of rocker chick in me. I think of my RATE more as E described it. I prefer to decorate my house with older leather chairs that show their age, worn velvet sofas, threadbare vintage rugs, sterling silver with a light patina : beautiful materials and high quality, but a bit cozy and forgiving. I wonder how this translates into personal clothing/ fashion style?

How do the rest of you RATE women manage to feel just as chic as your polished sisters, when stylish people tend to revere and promote the polished aesthetic? Is RATE really just a kind way to say, messy?

As a 2-month forum member I appreciate seeing a 4 year old thread! Can anyone link to the original one? I find it an interesting discussion.

I'm not sure which "original thread" you're referring to, but here are a few threads that deal with the issue of polish/ RATE. xox

https://youlookfab.com/2011/07.....team-rate/

http://www.alreadypretty.com/r.....-polished/

https://youlookfab.com/welookf.....-the-edges

Thank you Mac! The third link you gave, written by "catgirl", looks like the one. It is 6 years old. I'm intrigued as I wouldn't describe myself as either. I have always had trouble feeling I look either elegant or glamorous. On the extremely odd occasion I may look either of those, like in my ball dress, I milk the feeling for all it's worth! Cheers x

Hmm. I find this a hard question to answer without insulting someone...

But perhaps I can say that Emmanuelle Alt is not totally polished. She wears jeans and heels a lot, and her hair long and unbound. Like Duchess Kate, she is well cared for, but relaxed - not as polished as you can get.

@Jenni - I THINK (still a bit confused, to be honest) that RATE and Polished isn't really about looking elegant and glamorous. Polished is more about looking neat and tidy while RATE is looking deliberately a little bit, "askew" or imperfect.

Thanks Mac, I did think that, but can't feel I equate myself with either really. I guess I think of glamorous and elegant as sort of extreme versions of polish in my mind. And I sort of look accidentally askew most of the time, it's not what I aim for. I aim to have a tidy pixie hairstyle but am too lazy to style it most of the time so it sticks up in funny directions... It's not looking messy on purpose.

I think there are RATE items that are deliberately distressed, etc. And then there's our innate tendencies. Some of us are a bit messy, maybe lazy about hair, nails and clothing upkeep...
I don't look messy on purpose, I'm messy by nature. I've learned, for example, that white outerwear is not great for me because I'm not inclined to wash it as often as required. I rarely buy things that require ironing or dry cleaning because I've learned I just won't do it. Others swear white clothes are not difficult and enjoy maintaining their clothes.

Thanks for resurrecting this I can see now that in my original question, I was confusing RATE with hard-edged.

I still like Vix's comment relating it to controlled/cultivated versus uncultivated nature.

And I'm with Jules on wearing white. Just ruined another item today.

There are so many fashion icons who are polished. But I thought of a good RATE one, I think: British model Stella Tennant. In fact, I think that maybe some British women do RATE very well, indeed.

I do think people are oriented one way or the other. My hair is always RATE among other things. I had an uber polished grandmother and she really had no choice about it either.

Yep, thinking about it more I am sort of uncultivated! My hair has always tended curly and is difficult to tame, I do spill things, make-up is minimal and never perfect, etc. It kind of goes OK with wearing bright colours, tunic tops etc, but certainly not hard-edged if that was originally being confused with RATE.