Deb, I suggest, if your son does not want to be a father, it is up to HIM, not his partner, to prevent conception. That is the message my husband gave our teenage sons as soon soon as they reached puberty.

Fathering a child involves taking full responsibility for another human being, regardless of your relationship with the mother or what your partner promised. Both my sons were told, if you really don't want the responsibility of fatherhood, don't rely on anyone else to make that decision for you.

It's hard for me to imagine that the primary motivation for this kind of interference is negative. I think it's more likely that they're not convinced that you won't regret it and because there's something of a time limit involved they feel compelled to challenge your decision.

Maybe you could have a simple, firm response that doesn't allow for further discussion. Acknowledge their concern, and say that you understand the seriousness of the decision, you are satisfied with the amount of time you spent thinking about it and that you believe that you've made the right choice. Gentle, but very firm.

If they pursue it, repeat the same thing, and don't embellish, become emotional or allow their persistence to shake your confidence.

Gaylene, I agree with you and started that discussion with him since Jr high school. He does not have a relationship with his father but luckily we have a very goo one and discuss everything.

Also Gaylene, I want him to be able to be compassionate to the person he is with and to be able to make a joint decision. Not decide based only on his wishes but his partners, also.

Manny just wanted to say I read your reply and love you for being open honest and putting your feelings out there. Xoxoxo

And on YLF you have our support if no one else's.

It looks like I'm late to this thread and a lot of great advice has already been given, so I just wanted to add my support and empathy. I'm around your age (32) and I'm not planning on having children either. Much like you, DH and I are happy to spend time with each other and don't feel the need to expand our family (with the possible exception of a dog when our careers settle). I knew this by the time I was a teenager, told DH this when we started dating in college, and reminded him again when we were getting married. Now in our thirties, my biological clock has shown no signs of kicking in even when spending time with the young kids of our family/friends.

I do feel there is somewhat less societal pressure in the U.S., especially in our (DH and my) mostly academic social circles, but Gaylene's advice about just letting it wash over you sounds good and I would do your best to make sure your family/friends understand you aren't judging their life and choices with your decision. Often people feel that by not wanting kids yourself, you are saying they should not have had them either, which is not true.

What Isabel said. For a lot of people,woman in particular, having kids was the best thing that ever happened to them. They have a hard time understanding how someone can decide not to pursue that. You can never convince them. But you could assume that the advice/pressure was given in love. Of course, the decision is yours and yours alone.

Being child-free in India is such a big deal, I can only imagine the pressure you face voluntarily choosing this option. Kudos to you both.

I have yet to meet anyone who has both kids and pets say the experience is comparable.

Ah, I understand, Deb. It's so tricky when one partner changes his/her mind about having kids. But, i figure all we can do is hope that we've instilled the right attitude in our boys so they become good men--men who care about their partners and are respectful of their needs. The very fact that you caution your son speaks volumes about the way you've raised him.

Thank you very much everyone. I'm very touched by all your responses. It reminds me yet again what a great community YLF is.

Donna---my heart goes out to you, dear one. Yes, some people should never have kids. And so many people blindly decide to have children when they simply don't have it in them to shoulder all that responsibility. It's sad. Thank you so much for sharing.

Una and Elpgal ---- Electing to be child-free in India IS VERY DIFFICULT. Our society is built on the funda of procreating and then passing on our legacy to our children...irrespective of how shitty that legacy may be. I've had a tough time with my mother in law. She's told me time and again that I'm depriving her of her 'right' to be a grandmother and she doesn't know what to do with her life because everyone has grandkids but her. She's overtly melodramatic and has asked me a 1000 times to have a kid and then give it to her so she can raise it and I can wash my hands off. Why on earth would I do that?! How idiotic is that, really???

Gaylene---you're like a Fountain of Wisdom. I can understand in theory that raising a dog must be so different than raising a child. Of course, they can't be compared. And I never intended to compare. But since raising a dog is MY only experience with motherhood, I continue to call my dogs my 'children'. I can only imagine what people feel towards their kids....but I feel very maternal towards my dog. It is only my opinion....I never mean to imply that I know how a mother feels for her child because I've experienced it with my dogs. But this love IS ENOUGH for me. I see them as my children.....they are the centre of my world. I've made countless sacrifices for my dogs so I equate it to kids (for ME). I've worked at an office that allowed me to walk back home thrice a day to feed my pup, I've chosen to not go to work when I couldn't find someone to care for my puppy, I've worked from home for 6 years so my dogs were not alone all day (both had separation anxiety), I didn't travel for 6 years to any place I couldn't take them along because I didn't want to leave them with someone incompetent, and I quit everything in life to care for my sick dog who passed away 2 years back. Those were all hard choices but I did them without a second thought because it's what I WANTED to do. And I also honestly say that I'd DIE to protect my dogs.....they mean just that much to me. It's the same for my husband. I remember this one time (and only time) when my dogs had a fight. They're both really big breeds and would've injured each other very badly. We couldn't get them to let go, so my husband actually put both his hands inside their mouths...both of them....just so they bite him and not each other. He sustained massive injury on both hands because both dogs had very massive bite force...but the dogs immediately stopped and calmed down the second they realized it's his hand they were biting. It was the stupidest thing he's ever done because he could've damaged the nerves of his hands, but if I was standing closer, I would've done the exact same thing. It's how our brains are wired. We'd rather be harmed than see our dogs in pain. So I ask you, why can't I think of them as my children?

When I lost my dog, I went crazy with grief. It was too much for me to handle. It took months of therapy and treatment to get out of that depression. I still grieve her loss and think about her every single day.

My friend with kids who know me well never mind it if I call my dog my child, and often compare their own child to my dog...or compare our experiences on caring for a young one because they know what my dogs mean to me.

This is just my side of the story. In no way do I mean to imply that raising a dog is the same as raising as kid. It's precisely why I don't want kids....I just don't want to give so much of myself to raise anyone.

Dee, you're very right. I think the pressure is enormous in this country. But I've held strong for many years now.

I agree---I've got to stop being defensive. And I've got to choose my words more carefully, so my friends/family can understand that I'm not judging their choices. I respect every woman's choice to procreate or not procreate....I just hope they will respect mine as well as I get older. In all honesty, most people in our life assume I'm going to miraculously change my mind one day because I'm still very young. I think the pressure may get worse once I cross 35. What's much much worse - in India if you don't have kids, people assume you have fertility problems! The concept of 'electing' to be childless is alien to them! I've had people I've met for the first time ask me what's the 'problem' with me that I can't have kids....it's just so offensive! Even when I assure them I'm 100% healthy with no problems, they think I'm hiding the fact I'm infertile. It's downright annoying!

And yes, there is no pressure on my husband. Even his mother doesn't bother to question him for HIS choice to be child-free. I'm the only one who faces the pressure. My MIL conveniently assumes that I've made the choice for her son, which is absolutely not true. He's way more staunch than I am in this decision....he absolutely doesn't want to further his defective genes and he doesn't want another human being to feel the weight of his/her parents expectations the way we have to feel. He's very ambitious and he's very balanced in his head. I'm his whole world....and he's my whole world.

We were not always like this. When we started dating, we didn't know we didn't want kids. I didn't know it either. Somehow, over the years, as we saw our friends have kids and the kind of responsibility it was, the kind of life they lived once they became parents, the amount of pressure they were always under....we both made up our mind separately that it wasn't the life we wanted for us. By the time we actually had this discussion, we had both made up our mind about it individually and the conversation was a relief for both of us. In the last 8 years, we have grown so much as individuals, but we always grow together as a couple too. I feel blessed to have a husband who is always 100% in sync with me...he truly is my soul mate and I always have his support while he has mine. It definitely takes alot of pressure off because I never feel like I'm facing silly questions or arguments on the 'child' matter alone.

Maneera, I am sorry you are subject to these attitudes and pressure. I do understand. I also didn't want children! DH and I were married 10 years before we had Master 12. But for those 10 years, people would ask why we didn't have kids, when were we going to have kids, was there something wrong, etc - I have to say our families were very understanding and did not put pressure on us. I cannot fully explain what happened but at some point I started to feel different and decided I might actually like to have a child.... and hence we now have our awesome boy. BUT, we were then subject to 'when were we having another child', and criticism and judgement over not giving our son a sibling. You can't make everyone happy so as long as you and your DH are happy and stand with one another on your decision all is well.

Maneera, you have every right to live your life exactly as you please. If that means deciding not to have children, then it certainly isn't appropriate for anyone - family or otherwise - to interfere. It is a purely personal subject, and should be respected by those close to you. As for regarding a child as a means to care in old age: that has to be the most selfish reason to bring children into the world.

It never occurred to me not to have children - I have two, and I love them dearly - but it's not a decision to be taken lightly, and I completely understand that parenthood is not for everyone.

Enjoy your life as you have chosen to live it, and just put the unwanted comments down to ignorance and insensitivity.

I remember the comments my parents got when they announced their third child, like how having one girl and one boy already was enough, why would they want more? And then how when they had their fourth, why people would have more than three cildren (which is considered a lot) in these days. There are always comments, no matter what you do. People who think they know better what's good for you or what you should or shouldn't do. As so many others have already said, you have to decide what's right for you (and your partner) and then just stick to it and ignore what everyone else is saying. I'm the complete opposite from you, I'd like to have kids (or a kid) but I'm single and don't have someone to have them with (yet). And I have already thought about what I would do if I don't find someone before I reach a certain age, if I could bring up a child on my own. Now that is something that inspires even more controversy than your decision to stay childless.

I agree with you, Summer. I think having kids so they can care for you in old age is a selfish motive too. It's definitely not the reason someone like me would want to procreate. But you'd be surprised to know that MANY people have kids for this reason. Also, someone to call you own. Many people have told me that having a child makes them feel less alone. I can understand that, but have no need for that, as I'm not someone who feels lonely even when I'm actually alone for long periods of time.

Astrid, thanks for your inputs. You raise some very good points. Our society, for some reason, thinks it's OK to butt their nose into other people's procreation choices. Why should anyone be concerned if a couple has no child, 1, 2 or 5? It's what THEY want. Some people like small families, some like big families and some don't mind not having a family at all. Point is, we are all different. And we shouldn't be judged for these choices....because they are so very personal.

As for your decision to become a single mom if you don't find a suitable partner, I can assure you that while it will raise controversy, you'll be a very very good mom. I've seen the way you analyze, think and process. You're an extremely mature, balanced and warm person, and a kid couldn't ask for more in a parent If and when that day comes, you'll get 100% support from YLF.

However, it is a hard path to take, but I'm sure you'll weigh in all your options before you make that call. Having a partner smoothens out the process as you have someone to share the responsibilities, decisions and worries that come with a child. But it's not the ONLY way.

Thank you for your words, Maneera. If it happens, then it definitely won't happen soon. I'm only in my mid twenties after all, I still have time. We'll see.

I do have a child and love him more than anything but can absolutely see how people can be very happy and fulfilled without children. I know several childless couples who are very happy. I'm pretty sure I would have been too, had I gone that route.

I'm sorry you are feeling so much outside pressure to have children. I think a lot of people want their own choices validated and find different choices threatening. It is your decision and you seem to have made the right one for you.

I do have children, and although I'm happy to have them, they do change your life and are a huge responsibility. So I would NEVER tell someone to have them. There are many ways to live a good life.

Gaylene gives wise advice. It will be difficult to do as she suggests -- it is hard not to feel defensive when people are criticizing you, after all. But over time, I imagine you'll get better at it. Sadly, I'm sure you'll get lots of opportunities to practice, because people do seem to feel they have the right to comment on women's procreative lives. :-/

I can only imagine the courage it must take to buck the trends in India.
It is bad enough in North America.

Perhaps most people have children without thinking about it one way or another. Of course, not long ago, even a generation ago, as Deb reminds us, it simply wasn't a "choice" for anyone. Birth control was unreliable and hard to get. For people of that generation, then, thinking of childbearing as a choice might be well nigh impossible.

And perhaps for some people what threatens is the idea of living by choice or conscious decision itself. In other words, if you are the kind of person who lives a largely unexamined life, but has twinges of guilt, sadness, angst, resentment (about your circumstances) or some other set of negative feelings about this; if you are the kind of person who has trouble taking responsibility for your own choices, whatever they are -- or even seeing them as choices in the first place (and -- after all, perhaps they are not "choices" when we are talking about people who may not enjoy the same level of privilege as we do) -- anyway -- if you are that type of person, any obvious departure from convention on the part of another person might feel like a slap in the face. So perhaps the ones who are chiding you are also feeling defensive. They shouldn't be; it isn't fair -- but it might explain some of the unwelcome attention and advice.

For those seeking more radical validation for the choice not to have children, I'm linking to this website:

http://wildtruth.net/on-parent.....ocreation/

I do not endorse or espouse Daniel's views, and some of them are offensive in my opinion as a parent, but his ideas are certainly food for thought. He does provide a less-seen extreme at the end of the spectrum, with the opposite end being those who push the idea that every woman MUST have children no matter what.

I would not object to having children, but I've never had any drive to do so. I mean, I worked with a woman who announced she was 'born to breed' within the first hours of meeting her. I have never been pregnant in any case. And yet, I still have a daughter and have done diapers, bottles, and PTA because of a lot of difficulty that befell a neighbor at once. So I look at it all in many ways. Other people having children has affected me. I could have chosen to turn the girl into CPS but that's not much of a choice from what I've seen. I do think societies raise children and children are raised in societies. It's irritating to be dissed by the rabbi who stops my friend in the street to tell her to marry Jewish and have children and irritating to be lectured myself by a priest, but its kinda their job. What do I tell them? Someone has to be ready to pick up the pieces... Ahem!

I am happily married and childless by choice. When I was in my 30s, I received an amazing amount of pressure from absolute strangers who felt the need to inform me that I was failing as a woman since I did not have children. Some family members also made their disapproval clear. But eventually it all sort of withered away ... I'm 48 now and too old to spawn without technological help, and I can't even remember the last time someone cast shade on me about the kid thing. So hang in there Maneera. It does get better with age (as do most things, I'm finding).

It is a hard thing for others to understand, but imagine a world where people weren't bringing kids into their lives unless they were sure they wanted them. I myself always knew I was going to be a mother and it suits me perfectly. My sister chose not to but seems regretful. I would wonder if there was any truth to your mother regarding you being a role model? Would it be bad to just open up a dialogue to see where she is at and reassure her that what is right for you doesn't have to be her path? Sometimes mother's are very astute in their observations of such things and shouldn't be so easily dismissed. At least that was my experience with my own mother.

Suz, I think you're 100% right. Taking a departure from societal norm always raises controversy. And our society in India is very very conservative. For one, all assets and property stay within a family and are passed on from one generation to the next. We don't have any old age pension schemes either. So in old age, either you have a lot of savings, or you are dependent on your children. That's fair too----in India, parents pay for a school and college education and also weddings. So many don't have any savings since they have taken care of their kids until they are married. Also, joint families are the norm in our patriarchal society. Sons don't ever leave home, they live in the same house as their parents and so do their children and then theirs too. You'll have many large homes with 4 generations living together.

Hence, in India, people live their life for their family...essentially their kids. So it's even harder for others to understand why I would chose not to want that. What's norm is what's accepted.

What is sad is that many people our generation also have these conventional ideas. I once had a friend who confessed to me that her husband didn't like our friendship coz he thought I was 'bad influence'. I was offended beyond words! I'm a very simple person, not some party animal who doesn't want kids because she wants a free pass to booze around!!! I think of myself as quite a balanced, homely kind of person.

But yes, most people have kids without thinking much about the matter. Everyone does it, so they must too. It takes a lot of balls to chose a different path in a society like ours. Thankfully, my husband and I are nothing if not ballsy!

I often explain to people that in a culture where interdependence is ingrained, independence (the keystone of Western thought) is generally not seen as an aspirational goal. Any time you assert that you are not part of the collective, you challenge the norm. I feel like that is become less so as families move for jobs - the last time I was there, we actually visited an old family friend of my mother in a - *gasp* - "nursing home". But that is yet to be common, as far as I know.

Here, parents will say they do not want to depend on their children to care for them. Meanwhile, my grandmother would proudly say that was the exact reason she had 9 children. Neither way is better or worse, just different and with its own challenges.

For instance, are there openly rebellious teens in India? Not one of my cousins' children behave as American teens are routinely expected to do, with disrespect and rule-flaunting and so on. My son is practically programmed by school and movies to believe that he MUST rebel at some point or else something is wrong with him.

Oh wow, a long thread already and I haven't read the responses, but this is a topic near and dear to my heart.

I am a stepmom, but never had any children of my own. I have absolutely zero regrets. I always assumed that having children was something I'd maybe get around to someday, IF I found the right partner. Well, by the time I found the right partner, he was twice divorced with two young boys and had had a vasectomy, so I had to make sure early on that I was comfortable with the idea that if this man was "the one," I was OK with the idea of not having children with him. As the years went on, we occasionally discussed the matter (usually him asking me "Are you SURE you don't mind not having kids? Because if you do, we'll make it happen..."). Each time I remained quite content with the idea of not jumping through hoops to have kids of my own. Now, if things had been different and it had been possible that we would have had an "oops" pregnancy, we would have been happy to have that together. However, that was not ever going to happen. We were going to have to TRY if we were going to have children together.

Of course, there were some people who didn't know the background who would ask from time to time whether we were going to have kids, and I deflected, but honestly, most people were pretty cool about it. Even, especially, my mother! By the time I married, I was almost 38, the age my mom was when she got pregnant with me. She understands how it gets harder to take care of children when you're an "older" parent, and she also respected the fact that I was parenting in my own way in the role I played raising my stepsons. She never pestered me to have kids, and for that, I am grateful.

But anyway, over the years I came to realize that it's not necessary to squeeze a baby out of your body to play a real and lasting role in shaping young lives or contributing to society. I have huge respect for parents of all kinds, and I appreciate the respect of people who can see me as a stepparent, or my friends who are not parents at all, as people who have just as full and fulfilling lives as those who decide to have children. It's really nobody else's business, and I always wonder why others care so much about another person's decisions on whether or not to procreate. After all, if the planet is not going to overpopulate itself, some of us surely need to NOT have kids, right?

TraceyLiz, I'm not so sure what would be wrong with a world in which more people brought children into it knowing that they were ready and wanted to be parents. It seems to me a lot of people are reluctant parents and while some families turn out just fine that way, I see a lot of unhappiness and unhealthiness come from that too.

What Gaylene said.
This is a great forum for venting and better than getting riled up by the remarks of others. Not good for you. Plus some people will enjoy winding you up and watching you get upset. I think it can be fun to practice your vague smille. It can also be disarming (!) to agree with them, in the sense of, oh, kids can be so cute, or something, or if there are relatives, oh, isn't little ___ a doll! What is she up to these days? Totally confuse them. Plus you're under no obligation to keep outlining your plan. If it doesn't seem right to you to leave things ambiguous ( Nosy person: You really ought to have a baby. Maneera: Smiling vaguely and nodding--oh, I suppose anything could happen, but it doesn't seem likely) then that approach is not for you, but the main thing is not to get on the defensive or try to lecture them in the opposite direction.
Best of luck! At some point it will be moot and hopefully that will be many happy years with many more to follow.

imagine a world where people weren't bringing kids into their lives unless they were sure they wanted them.

I assume you're saying this is the ideal, because I think it should be.  Not only should all children be wanted; parents-to-be should be as prepared as possible to have children financially, emotionally, and mentally.  Heck, people are freely discouraged from keeping big dogs in small apartments, right?  So where's the harm in dissuading people from having children when they are ill-prepared to do so?  If you care about children, it seems you would not want people to have them for the wrong reasons. That doesn't prevent supporting them in getting the help to be prepared if they are willing, of course!

I'm surprised to hear you've got a family friend in a nursing home, Una. I don't think I know anyone like that! But yes, things are changing....slowly but surely. It'll be a WHILE before our Indian society starts to consider child-free as normal.

Janet, you're doing a wonderful job. I completely agree --- you don't have to squeeze a tiny human out of your body to be a good parent. When my parents argue with me saying ,"You're going to cry about your decision when you're in your 40s", I calmly tell them that should a day come when I want to be a mom, I would gladly adopt. I almost certain though that such a day will never ever come.

Unfrumped, I really do love your advice, much like Gaylene's. I see the merit of this approach. Being defensive or reacting to an attack from a silly relative or acquitance only create room for further dialogue. I argue, they argue back. I try to explain my point, they explain theirs. There's no solution in the end. But a vague smile and no definitive response means the conversation will HAVE to end right there. I never thought of it this way before!!!! I'm just the kind of person who always indulges in logical justification.....but why bother?! Life would definitely be much easier