I do. I'll admit it. I'd say "attractive in a (kinda) delicate way without being truly beautiful" describes me reasonably well.

Wow, what an interesting forum conversation! Thanks for starting the thread!

Okay, so, first of all, Aragorn. Ruggedly handsome, swoon!!

Perhaps Legolas is too pretty for my tastes?

Now, to 'pretty'. Not something I aspire to, and I think I've nailed that , but perfectly valid to do so. I would feel incongruous in head-to-toe pretty for everyday wear. I think I aspire to something that is more genuinely representative of where I am, right now.

I think I also analyse with respect proportions, size, balance rather than prettiness.

Perhaps wearing a pretty tee can make the wearer pretty, if, according to Diane G's definition, it is about superficial appearances? I believe the wearer would have to be convincing in the role though, and that involves convincing themselves to a certain degree. Yeah, I could do this if occasion demanded- it would be theatre but I could do it!

I am still thinking about this! Wow! Great question Una!

To answer your question - I don't aim for pretty. Chic - yes. But I have been called pretty too. May be because of the slender built and Asian influence. I don't find it offending ... Just hard to comprehend!

Yes I aim for pretty. Always.

But I don't define pretty the way some do apparently...I never see the word as young or girly or frilly. I think that is too narrow a definition. Pretty to me is something that is appealing. Something that I like, that looks artistic or interesting in some way that I feel is pleasing. Something flattering or joyful. I never saw the word as an insult.

The same way I look at pink. It gets all these political, feminist feelings attached to and it is just a color. A good one, too.

Clearly .... Pretty lies in the eyes of the beholder

Hi,

Interesting question. I really hope I haven't offended anyone by saying they are pretty. If I have, I'm sorry. I know sometimes I say members are beautiful because they truly are. Now that I know everyone better, I sincerely see everyone here as beautiful but I know that's not the question.

As a Mom of a young daughter, I am very aware that it can't be all about the pretty (conventionally attractive appearances) as that is so limiting.

I almost resisted reading a style blog called "Get Your Pretty on" as I thought the title was cloying and dumb.

and yet........

Full disclosure: I am delighted to be called pretty any time, any where. I do not feel diminished at all---just complimented. My childhood nickname was "Doll" so maybe it goes way back? I have issues

OK-ETA

I like being called pretty but would never want people to expect me to be pretty. During a recent derm scan, the Doc suggested lasers to make my freckled upper chest "a lot prettier". In my head I was raging. I thought "Damn--I'm here to save my life (redhead melanoma risk). Get "pretty" off the table!" Of course, this was in Beverly Hills so maybe not shocking?

I know this sounds like a bad Cosmo article, but my best friends in HS/college/20s in NYC were commercially successful professional models. I learned to put up with all the conversations from friends/family/strangers about "You're really pretty and all but they're BEAUTIFUL!"

That is why my definition of beautiful is a lot more all encompassing than outward physical aesthetic appeal.

I don't aim for pretty either, but it's been useful over my life as a woman to have that possibility in my "arsenal", so to speak...getting through customs, job interviews, etc., etc. Good to be able to call it up when needed.

I associate "pretty" with being "flaky" ... but I really like to look pretty - I think it takes some of the pressure off with having to look "tailored" and "sharp" all the time.

Pretty is a tough word and has certainly come to have negative connotations. I don't read much into it and take it purely at face value

OK, first things first:

Legolas: cute
Aragorn: handsome
Boromir: hot

What can I say? I find Sean Bean extremely attractive, especially in LOTR costume.

Back to your actual question, i.e. what do I aim for in the realm of pretty/beautiful/attractive? Well, I think beautiful is out of my reach, even on a good day. I do aim for attractive and/or pretty, although my idea of pretty might not be the same as the next person's. For example, lots of women think lace is pretty. I don't care for it. Once in a while, I will see a lacy item that I think is quite nice, but in general, I think it's kind of ugly. So I wouldn't put on a lace item to make myself look prettier. To be honest, I'm not sure that ANY item of clothing does a lot to make you look prettier, because clothes don't really affect your face. When I think "pretty", the focus is on the face. What DOES make me look prettier is mascara and lipstick. I wear those things most days, which demonstrates that looking pretty is at least reasonably important to me.

"Attractive", on the other hand, goes farther than just how your face looks. It involves not only the whole body, but how you present yourself -- so your demeanour, as well as your entire outfit, play a role. I guess I do want to look attractive, because I try to find outfits that are at least somewhat flattering, but honestly? Looking cool is more important. I feel silly using that word, but there is no other I can think of to express it.

I guess the question is, would you rather look hot (sexy, attractive) or cool (hip? insouciant? -- aaargh, there really is no other word). I know where I want to be on the spectrum. Whether or not I achieve it is debatable.

Also yes, Sean Bean as Boromir - *CRUSHING HARD*

I aim for chic, different, RATE, but pretty...no...I had much rather you would tell me I have an interesting outfit...rather than I look pretty...Cupcakes are pretty..know what I mean?...
We all want to be attractive whatever that is but pretty...not so much...
I had still rather find chic in the clothes I choose...
(Which is why I enjoy your posts and clothes...you have a chic style...
much rather have than pretty)...JMO

With men, as with women, the prettiest face is not necessarily the most attractive. Case in point: Orlando Bloom as Legolas is undeniably pretty -- the prettiest of those three men -- but I find Aragorn and Boromir far sexier.

Pretty is not how I want to be perceived, for a lot of the same reasons as you've all said.

I have a more interesting relationship with "feminine". It is the exact antithesis of my style. I avoid it at all costs. And yet, it is a positive thing for many many people and I see it as a wonderful side of many of your looks here on YLF. It's just not me.

So I have to amend my response a bit. I distinctly remember discussing a dress for my vow ceremony with Angie and asking if it was "pretty enough." For that event I think I really do want to look pretty, and I don't really know why.

I equate pretty with feminine. I have been told I was pretty often in my life. How I viewed the descriptor depended on how it was delivered. Also, my mood. I do not like to be called pretty at work. In fact, I do not like my looks brought up at all at work. Many times I have been grubby from working on a project and was told I was pretty. Go figure. Do you believe people use the word negatively on purpose?

My answer is yes and no. I just got my hair cut to tame my curls into something that is traditionally pretty, and I generally aim for pretty in makeup. But for clothes, I find pretty a little boring. I think beauty comes in many forms. Flora mortis is beautiful to me. RATE, avante garde, and spunky can all be beautiful.

I find the question posed to Una offensive. "Ask yourself why you don't want to be pretty", as if conforming to societal expectations is somehow a responsibility of women everywhere and they must have some sort of psychological issue if that's not the thing they are striving for. Why is it perceived as threatening if a woman chooses to be seen in a different way?

My perception of "pretty" is heavily context specific. It can certainly be a compliment, and I think in the vast majority of cases on this forum, it is intended as complimentary. However, when used in the context of the question asked, it smacks of 1950's, submissive, conformist notions. Why I have such a strong reaction to this comment interests me, and I admit that the issue might lie with me and not with the question. But the idea that a flowery shirt can make someone pretty strikes me as ridiculous, too. I don't see myself or many other women as "pretty", no matter how many flowers or ruffles or frill they wear. I see many women as interesting, gorgeous, beautiful, statuesque, strong, confident, intelligent, etc.

Pretty tends to carry more weight of history and societal expectation and even oppression IMO than most other terms, especially when posed in the almost-confrontational way, "Ask yourself why you don't want to be pretty".

Okay, I am starting a separate thread on the LOTR debate!

Love the discussion here... I am never offended to be called pretty. More later!

I agree completely, Echo. I would have been foaming at the mouth if someone had said that to me. In a very non-pretty way.

(Edit just to clarify - I don't think "pretty" is inherently insulting or demeaning. It's just that asking someone why they don't want to be pretty is problematic.)

This is fascinating. I am just too tired today to think about this. LOL ! I missed the original thread but I went back and read it.

What really stood out for me was not "pretty" but "sweet" or "dainty' or uber delicate...and that is definitely not you.

I also don't ever think of "pretty" but somewhat attractive and comfortable. While most women and magazines focus on "effortless", I want to look like I at least tried !

Well said, Echo. Yes, sometimes when I hear "pretty" I hear it in the context of "don't worry your pretty little head over it."

I don't aim for pretty in my style but I do appreciate pretty in some of my individual items. For instance, I have a pencil skirt that has a soft floral pastel print on it which is undeniably pretty. I see pretty as signifying softness and femininity and like the contrast it creates with structure, rather than aiming for it as an overall look.

Echo, I recognise that the "soft" aspect of pretty can also read as weakness or submission. I must confess that I found that comment confronting too, and I think it may be because I equated "not pretty" with "not feminine or beautiful" and therefore not valuable. And I know that calculation is one that is entirely based on my exposure to social values that emphasise pretty as being a whole lot more important than other aspects of appearance.

It is interesting to investigate how many of our style preferences are informed by forces that are largely not a part of our awareness when the decisions are being made! Having said that, I also suspect that it does matter WHY a particular style makes us feel good as long as it does!

I hope Catnip chimes in here. I am certain this was not intended to be anything but a compliment and a sincere question. At least that is how I chose to take it, at its face - though I certainly considered all the controversial implications that might be there if say, one of my bossy aunts asked me this question (and probably has!). I remember my college friend's Southern belle mom asking why we all dressed in army jackets and combat boots instead of cute dresses made for "showing off our girlish figures."

One way or another it is an ongoing question.

I have problematic knee-jerk reactions to being categorized as a girl. I grew up with an unfortunate belief that guys were better and I needed to be as guy-like as possible. I've worked (quite successfully) at changing that.

But, related to that: one of the most eye-opening things for me has been meeting so many M to F trans friends. Because they've all very intentionally and at great personal cost brought out the most feminine sides of themselves. And, just because of what crowds I run with, they are all extremely technical people, brilliant software and hardware engineers, the same interests that led me to want to be a boy when I was a kid. It's made me think a lot about what role femininity has in my life. Anyway, I'd be curious to know my various queer and trans women friends' feelings about "pretty".

I keep coming back to this thread - it's so interesting. alaskagirl, I think you are right - the comment was intended in a very positive way how I read it - as in making sure you were feeling good about yourself and your appearance etc. It's all in the definition of terms, as is so often the case!

Terrific discussion!

I didn't think Catnip's question was offensive, given the context. I thought she was responding to Una's comment that the top was "a lot MORE pretty than I am stylewise ... Am I right? This is my Kate Spade shadow style creeping in and elbowing me in the ribs.."

Given that statement, it seemed like Una was wondering herself about why it is she was not giving her shadow style a go.

Or I could totally be misinterpreting

However, if a "well-meaning" relative or person walked up to me and said, "Why don't you want to look pretty? Why do you dress like that?" I would be pretty pissed.

Cathy, exactly right. That's why I had the word "stylewise" in there. Not about ME being pretty or not, but how I dress. And you could read insecurity or self-bashing into that although that is not at all what I meant.

And yes again, as to why I like certain items enough to try them but don't feel them resonate enough to keep?

What an interesting discussion! I'm genuinely surprised at how many people associate negative connotations with the word pretty.
I've always been OK with trying to look pretty, and I have never minded being complimented in that way.

I don't, however, associate pretty with being weak, ditsy, frilly, or girly. I think that one can look pretty while being strong, intelligent, RATE, and even wearing head-to-toe menswear. I take it to mean pleasing and attractive. I do tend to think of pretty as referring to the superficial aspect of good looks and grooming, whereas "beautiful" to me can refer to character and personality as well as a pleasing exterior.

As one gets older, pretty isn't a word that's likely to be used much any more. A pretty girl can hope to evolve into a "handsome" woman if she's lucky. I suppose that goes along with the desexualization of older women, but that's another topic...

When it comes to fashion, "pretty" isn't the first thing that I think about. Stylish, elegant, reasonably conventional flattery, sensual fabrics, attractive color combinations are more what comes to mind. But if all those add up to pretty, that's OK with me.

I have not read the other comments yet but, I aim for pretty mostly in the spring and summer and when I'm on my own time. If I'm wearing a full skirt or something particularly feminine then yes more than likely I am aiming for pretty. Attractive is more like going to work or to the grocery store. I don't need to turn heads (unless I'm in that kind of mood -- but then we're back to pretty) but I do want to look pulled together almost always. My general style is a little bit of pretty with a lot of attractive. I mainly prefer clean lines, vivid colors and high contrast which is more androgynous -- attractive than "pretty" which I consider more feminine. My personality (very defined and lamentably opinionated ;-)) lends itself more to attractive than pretty but I am more than happy to indulge my pretty side often.