Interesting responses. I'm someone who is I guess 'womanly'. I am busty and hippy and have full thighs and don't have a flat stomach. So it's curious how those seem to be thought of as pejoratives. I don't mind being called womanly and I don't mind having a certain girlishness. I personally just don't want to be frumpy or something I am not. I am curvy. It's just that way. I am whimsical. I love color and like to reflect creativity and fun with my clothing.

Deb, I love that you included that definition!

I get the same mental flash of curvy, fertile, voluptuous when you say womanly. I don't have a negative association with the word - my mom would appear womanly, but this word would not apply to me. I am your slim rectangle, I prefer menswear, minimalist, strict chic and elegant style - angular and straight and womanly don't seem to have an intersect for me. I've always felt more feminine in menswear styles than "girly" stuff. Same way my husband goes nuts when I steal one of his shirts to wear - what is it that is so appealing about this on both sides? Maybe it's the juxtaposition - accentuating the dicotomy. Not sure but it works.

Earth Mother is womanly...Curvy, volupuous...Girly is young with ruffles...Funny how these images are so ingrained in our subconscious that they come to full screen when used...
I have wracked my brain for a word to fit with girly and womanly...I have only come back with person...which really doesn't give the same connotation..
You have me stumpted as to what is the alternative if you don't want to use womanly or girly...

The word doesn't have any connotations on its own for me. The phrase "womanly virtues" however is packed with all sorts of personal and cultural meaning--most of it of a rather conservative Christian bent.

I pondered this word heavily on my drive in to work today. I pulled over to share a lightbulb moment I had. Sorry if it's a repeat, I don't think I read all responses.

Womanly is one of the only words I can think of to describe a woman that doesn't have an instant sexual connotation for me. It isn't tied to sexuality at all in my head. It doesn't imply a lack of sensuality either, it's just a neutral word for me in that area. It seems like all words for women have come to reflect some comment on our sexuality, so I'm digging this word now. I'm not anti sexual, but it is nice to have a word that speaks to the strength of a woman without conjuring images of her as a seductress.

I think matronly as well and that is not a look I aspire to.

I'm late to this, but I have a similar reaction, Una. I'm not sure exactly why, and I'm not really proud of it, but I don't love the term. It does feel a little bit like being called "ma'am," which doesn't upset me, but I inwardly cringe just a little bit.

I'm guilty of using the term "girl" but it's always in a playful way -- come on, are my friends and I going to say we're having a "woman's night out"? Why does any term conveying maturity sound so dull? Maybe it's because our culture is so entrenched in a mindset of celebrating youth in all its forms, and shunning any acknowledgment of the good things about aging.

Traci, that's an interesting observation. Yet again, another cultural observation -- it's rare to have a descriptor of a woman's appearance that doesn't make some kind of sexual statement.

WOW. This is fascinating. Womanly means very different things to different people.

It's not a word I use at all. In fact, I don't think I ever have. I use the words Feminine and Masculine instead - and those relate to very stereotypical style associations. Nothing too deep. I have zero negative association with the word Womanly. I'm quite surprised that some consider it negative, actually.

Like Alana and Angie, I have no connection to the word - positively, or negatively. I'm not I've ever used the term . My immediate reaction to it is as a body descriptor - voluptuous and full/curvy.

Now that I'm in my late 20s, I've started referring to myself as a woman vs girl. But I wish we had an in between word, like guy vs boy or man. I think girl is functionally used as a guy equivalent, but I'm hesitant about the connotations. I'm a big reader, and I've been struck lately when browsing the library by how many books use girl in their title, when referencing characters who are definitely not children. I don't know.

Anyway, my point is that while I'm beginning to embrace 'woman,' I quite like the adjective womanly. I think of it as applying to someone at least in their 30s, likely older, who is fully grown up and owning that maturity. I aspire to it! However, I wouldn't use it in a style conversation I don't think. And I can see how problematic the phrase 'womanly virtue' is!

I don't think I ever use the word. I wish I were shaped more like a girl, but that's more a phrase I throw out than saying, gee, I wish I wasn't a woman.

My first reaction is that it makes me think "matronly". But on second thought, also "mature" and "grown-up." (As opposed to girly.)

I don't really think I'd like to be called "womanly." But I can honestly say that I've never actually been called that. I get called "girly" all the time and I don't really like that either, it feeds into my insecurity about looking too young and not being taken seriously.

I prefer "feminine", I think. No assumptions about age.

This is why I love YLF - all of you willing to engage in this kind of discussion! I have such an instinctive reaction to certain descriptions (we won't revisit "pretty" but there was that whole thread...). Like why does "womanly" convey to me an image I can only describe as "ample scented cleavage"? Seriously.

I have a friend who mourns not feeling "womanly" because she is small-busted, even though she is a very feminine, polished dresser.

E, I have always associated these terms this way:

• man/woman
• manly/womanly
• boy/girl
• guy/gal

It drives me crazy when I hear "guys and girls". To me it is very demeaning to women.

...I wish I could have ample scented cleavage JUST ONCE...

Deb, I agree that girls as applied to women isn't ideal! Hence why I describe myself as a woman, although it sometimes sounds a bit funny. I haven't heard gals used much though: maybe it's a regional thing? I'll try it out next time an occasion occurs!

I have been using "ladies" lately (it seems more inclusive of ... bosom size?), although that's probably not ideal either. I don't really refer to myself as anything though - I guess I just usually use my name, or some other descriptor that does not refer to my gender (person, scientist, knitter, etc.)

"Ample scented cleavage" hahahahaaaaaaaaa

Una, you really do have a wonderfully nimble, creative mind. This is especially interesting given that you are a lawyer. Kind of turns the stereotype on its head.

I find it fascinating that many of us see womanly as a descriptor of our physical selves only & if we are not curvy/busty/large we don't relate to the word.

For me "feminine" has many more negative connotations as in - sitting a la KH (below) wouldn't have been considered "feminine".

What an interesting thread!

When I hear "womanly", I think voluptuous and feminine, in the style of Sophia Loren and Gina Lollobrigida. And not just curvy in terms of shape. It brings to mind that whole ethos that I would think of as Italian style (as opposed to French or North American, say). A relaxed sensuality, a mature beauty; maybe what "romantic" or some kinds of "dramatic" refer to as style descriptors. When I was growing up, that was the feminine ideal (which didn't match IT me).

I think this has become a less common ideal as youth and skinniness has trumped all (now that I no longer possess them...). But it isn't frumpy or matronly.

Maybe a bit of a hijack but: in the early 90s (I think) in Rome, DH and I noticed a female traffic policewoman. She was wearing a brass-buttoned, navy blue uniform--that was a fitted jacket showing off her hourglass curves, and a skirt. It struck us as so different to the Canadian policewoman's garb, which is pants and a boxy jacket from the same tailor as the men's uniform.

This whole thing led to some rumination (generalizations of course) on differing attitudes to gender differences in Europe vs North America (this is the rant, and based on when my kids were younger so maybe things have changed). The European attitude seemed then to be more "vive la difference" with an idea that we need women's contribution to the workforce, therefore we must have good mat leave, workplace childcare etc to level the playing field. Vs the North American view (better now I hope?) that if a woman wants to compete in a man's world, she had better make sure her pregnancy or child-care related needs don't get in the way of doing her job... Rant over, and feel free to disregard as I clearly don't know what I'm talking about...

*Womanly* gives me an ick feeling because I find that it's sort of... unfeminine. And a little overripe.

Strangely enough, I think rachylou may have hit the nail on the head for me: "overripe" is a really apt term in my mind for the connotations of "womanly".

And while I do agree that gal is technically the female version of guy, gal always gives me cowboy/cowgirl associations, or a middle aged geek (which, actually, I am) trying to sound hip and failing miserably. I don't have that association with guy because the term is used so widely.

And I think of a guy as that fuzzy in-between age after high school but before full-fledged career and family. After that point, he's a man, and before that point, he's a boy. Girl, gal and woman seem to have weightier implications and meanings and get all mixed up in usage, which only compounds the confusion individuals have over each term.

RachyLou, how can "womanly" be unfeminine? UnfeminiST, maybe?

L'Abeille, I can see you are like me - one little word can lead to endless rants and tangents!

HAHAHA, Rachylou! "Overripe" indeed. Which leads to "blowsy" and for some reason that sounds like flies are involved.

Fascinating...

There are lots of the connotations that Fabbers have discussed previously with the term womanly. Some people have said they don't feel it applies to them because of their height or shape or frame.

On one hand I think we are all women whatever our shape - someone is no less a woman because they have A cup breasts or F cup breasts, and whether they are single, married or have children or not, work in the home or in the paid workforce. And trans-gender people identify as women too. And there are qualities associated with being a woman that are to be celebrated - nurture, wisdom, running a household. And I also struggle with being girlish in my 40s.

However I also think that many women identify with other qualities that traditionally were more manly - such as being fierce, strong or practical. And that is to be celebrated as well. I can see that to be called womanly may seem to detract from these wonderful strengths. We have moved past the age where we all have to fit into a box - that is the biggest plus of living in this age.

For me, I will take it as a compliment, whether it was meant that way or not!

L'Abielle, I have to disagree with you. As single woman with no children, I have had to pick up the slack of multiple pregnancies and co-workers' children. Because somehow my life is less important.
But as to societal definitions, I will be never be a woman because I am single and don't have children.

ETA I just posted this on my facebook

It's easier to reject the superficial trappings when the obvious ones are established and accepted.

I too think of a full figure on a more mature woman when I hear this.

Out of curiosity, I typed "womanly" in my search box and came up with these top four predictive search terms:
womanly art of breastfeeding (a best-selling book apparently)
womanly wiles
womanly figure
womanly body

When I searched further I discovered that the rest of the (searching) world thinks of a womanly body as one with curves, and sometimes but not always overweight. I specifically think of a plus-sized figure.

I'm kind of ashamed as well.

I would define Womanly as adult woman( likely curvaceous) who is accomplished and knowledgeable . She is not a bright young thing of an ingenue that has yet to establish herself. Angelina Jolie ,Cameron Diaz , Sandra Bullock,are all established and experienced in their chosen career paths. As a antonym a ingenue in Hollywood has yet to establish herself , her style as an actress and be known for what her abilities are, rather than her fresh looks alone . She might very well get a job ONLY because she looks like a young"_______ _________" . If she hasn't got the skills to follow through she'll never really amount to much.

Oddly enough , I personally will differentiate woman ( female)from womanly or lady .
Example : I had a lady in the store today ( polite nice customer) versus
I had a woman in the store today ....( retail horror story forthcoming ...)
When I worked in a grocery store , one smartalec clerk would say Ma'am to the ones he liked/respected and Madam to the ones he didn't . No one ever caught on to his subtle name calling.

IK: RachyLou, how can "womanly" be unfeminine? UnfeminiST, maybe?

Well, I think it can be unfeminine when it's not a go-to term for women. I think of it as a term that 11-yr-olds use to mock their older sisters when they put on airs beyond their rightly years. Or authors who have a self-help e-book to sell, that sort that perforce includes somewhere in there something about evening, wine, and chocolate. And maybe some belly dancing... It's very fake it in hopes that you will make it.

Huh, interesting. I don't really use the term "womanly" but agree it has kind of bosomy/full figured and matronly connotations. I think of my style as "ladylike", but not necessarily "womanly". (Is there really even a difference?) I even sometimes think of my style as girly, even though it's probably more "womanly" than "girly".