I wax (or shave depending on time) my arms myself. It's not about an outward display or trend and is completely based on my own preferences (I can't think of a time I felt self-conscious or judged). I'm not obsessive about it, but will take action when it starts to get long.

Lisa, to what extent has fashion's message influenced your sartorial preference? I wonder whether we would all prefer hairy bodies if it was messaged to us that way.

Windchime, none of my Dutch family shaves - accept the men shave their faces. It's part of the culture. I have noticed that the younger Dutch generation do a lot more shaving these days.

I had my arms waxed once back when I was in law school, since my arms seemed furry to me. I liked the result, but never felt bothered by arm hair enough to do it again.

What I want to know is whether any of you are dyeing your armpit hair à la Miley Cyrus? Also here is a semi documented article on western body hair removal history. http://metro.co.uk/2015/11/17/.....s-5507362/

Reading this thread caused me to pull up my sleeves and checkout my arm hair. Where did it go? I used to have arm hair...it seems to be disappearing... Like my eyebrows.
I know I still have leg hair. This may be off topic a bit but I tried doing sugaring myself for a while. Takes a little getting used to the process but works wonders - much better than waxing. I ran into problem in the summer when the sugar would get too warm.

I think women ought to do what they want with their bodies, BUT I can't believe the pressure put on women these days to uphold what are, to me, extreme standards of grooming and body shaping. To me, if a woman is fearful of stopping her appearance-altering process, whatever she is doing goes beyond being just a personal preference.

I do not have visible arm hair, so I have never removed it, but if I had a lot of dark hair on my arms, I certainly would. I do not think that anyone, male or female, ought to feel compelled to alter their appearance in any way that makes them uncomfortable. That said, I do not find tremendous amounts of arm hair to be visually pleasing. I have known men with enough long, dark arm hair to almost obscure the face of their watch, and I found that unappealing. Fortunately, they didn't give a flying fig whether I liked it or not - and I also agree with them in that regard. MY preferences should not influence anyone else's grooming practices, but they drive my own. Interestingly, I do not find leg or chest hair (on men) to be as visually displeasing as arm hair, so it's clearly my own issue.

And as I've mentioned before, I dislike underarm hair being visible on men or women. For some reason I cannot explain, it seems private to me, much like pants being low enough to display pubic hair. Without hair, I do not find underarms to be private or something to be hidden, so I clearly have all sorts of whacky ideas about what it acceptable in my own mind and what is not!

Hmm, as Angie points out, I think it is easier to shun hair removal if you are less hairy to begin with. When I was younger I had much more hair on my arms and used various means to diminish it. With age it has all but disappeared so I don't think about it anymore, but might think about it if it bothered me. As Rachy mentions, body hair removal is nothing new.

Interesting.
I shave under my arms, because in my hot climate it is better to get rid of hair - less chance of body odour! I also shave my legs to the knee, but not the arms or upper legs, as I have only fine blonde hairs.
In Australia, basic shaving is the norm for women, though I do know women who don't. But in the last five years there has been a big increase in men who wax and shave body hair. A lot of young male students at my uni are hairless. Men of my husband's generation (in their forties) find this odd now! So I think it goes in trends, much like hair styles and body art.
It is horrible to think of young girls and boys feeling compelled to shave however.

What?! This is for real?! The only time I heard of something even close is when swimmers wax before a meet. All body hair that doesn't go under cap or goggles goes. We even took a razor to our hands for the psychological effect - that it would make us feel the water better, etc. I know it sounds nuts, but it was a thing.

Angie - to your question - of course cultural /media influencers inform my opinions. Where else to we get them from? One could trace every opinion /idea we have back to some source or another. To reiterate though, I don't find any self-grooming exercise annoying or the result of some pressure. I enjoy the ritual of it. No one has ever made me feel I need to do anything - shave, wax or not. I don't think arm sugaring is some wacky new trend either. It's just one of those things that isn't on the radar for many people. What I find interesting is the number of women who rise up in indignation and "reject" some perceived form of demand they conform to a male ideal. It's all highly interesting from an anthropological point of view.

Lisa, personally I prefer the look of a less hairy women's body too (not a less hairy men's though) - and like you, enjoy my own grooming ritual. But I am constantly questioning why this is the case and whether I need to alter my thought process. I don't prefer the size 2 or 4, 6ft tall supermodel's body over all other women's bodies. Nor do I prefer a muscled body over a soft body. Not at all in fact - and quite the opposite. So I feel I need to question the whole hairless thing too. Hope that makes sense.

Oh it does - I enjoy a good debate

So many interesting replies to this query. Thank you all for sharing!

As many of you have said, grooming practices are indeed personal, and people have the right do whatever it takes for them to feel comfortable or attractive in their own skin.

Some may indeed not feel pressure to remove body hair and "enjoy the ritual" of doing so. I am not suspicious of that sentiment itself, but of the industry that cultures it by manufacturing a problem in need of a solution (either products or services). While hair removal is an old custom, it wasn't something to which most women subjected the majority of their body's surface area.

Take underarm hair, for instance. It wasn't seen as disgusting roughly a century ago, when women began wearing sleeveless clothing. Rather, Gillette successfuly marketed their products as a "solution" to the "problem" of underarm.

Nowadays, women's beauty and fashion marketing seems less about encouraging overt self-flagellation than in promoting "indulgence," "decadence," "ritual," and "self-love"--treating yourself because you're worth it and deserve it. This is why I read Lisap's interpretation of hair removal--that's it's not a result of pressure, but a gratifying ritual--a bit suspiciously.

Something ceases to be a choice when your personal preferences attract unwanted attention, and when you feel that you need to remove hair in order to shake off that attention. Once you've branded a practice as undesirable, and once a critical mass adopts this practice, those that haven't yet adopted the practice feel enormous pressure to do so, regardless of whether that practice makes them feel more attractive.

(We'll bracket the issue of the increasing sexualization of prepubescent girls.)

On an intellectuel level, I find this interesting, and I'm all for a debate on the feminist implications of our choices around this stuff as women in the 21st century.

On a personal level, I can't help but bristle (heh) at some of the remarks on this thread, because if I chose to take them personally, would mean that my arms are "manly" or "unattractive" because I am one of those naturally hairy people who chooses not to remove the hair from my arms. I mean, c'mon, I'm 50 years old and happily married to a man who finds me attractive, and I never lacked for attention back when I was single even though my arms had hair on them. Who would I be trying to impress if I started doing something about it now?

Janet, I've met you in person a few times and have never noticed your "hairy body". Style is a package deal, and you have it going on. 100% attractive and gorgeous. Rock on.

Gradfashionista, to your point, I don't think we should feel the pressure to remove OR keep bodily hair. Just like we shouldn't feel pressed to colour our hair OR go grey. It's a personal choice. There is room for all these different ways to feel and be attractive.

I really need to stop sticking myself into conversations that are so passionate It's actually not a subject I really care all that much about - I was simply inserting myself into a conversation I thought was interesting. Maybe I have no clue what my motivations are - I just speak from the heart. Now, off to go get something waxed.

That's a good thing, Lisa. And the point of these threads in the first place. We are all respectful and must not take comments personally. (I am sure none of them were intended to hurt anyone's feelings). Enjoy the result of your wax!

Lisa, I didn't find your comments or anybody else's to be disrespectful in the least--I hope mine weren't! And to clarify, I wasn't questioning your own motives, but those of corporations, companies, even bloggers.

How do they benefit from cultivating the idea that women need or deserve indulgences, self-care, treats, etc., and linking these to feelings of attractiveness, sexiness, and worth? How do they go about linking the idea of self-care and ritual to particular products/services? I don't question that the feeling comes from your heart, I'm simply wondering about the larger processes that enable those feelings.

And yes, Angie, nobody ought to feel forced into acting/abstaining, I wholeheartedly agree.

Oh all y'all hairy arm people... I'm reminded of my old salon, when it was quiet (I left when it got noisy). It was chic, but there was something Red Tent about it. Not that men didn't get their hair cut there, but still, it was a place of women where you got the info only women will give you- like using white eyeliner on the lower rim of your eyes. All the funny little things of the society of women, which men really don't care about but will take as some sort of rule if you tell them.

I had a friend in the army who was in the Middle East... He thought the women were so much more solicitous to men than American women. Because of this salon, you know, I told him to consider the possibility that they were treating him and even members of their own households as guests - strangers, people who need to leave soon - in the Society of Women.

Anyways, two thoughts about pressure: 1, humans are social animals. We pressure ourselves voluntarily on the behalf of society. 2, humans are social animals. We really like our shared rituals.

ETA: after reading grads above post... I'll add a #3 - our natural feelings can be used to sell us stuff... Or seen from the other side, they are something to be catered to.

Ps: I do worry a little about the neotenization of our society. People don't seem to physically become adults anymore... Either that or I'm so old now everyone looks young. But, for example, I went to China and our guide was so surprised I was older than him and not in my twenties. I don't want to be immature...

Oh dear, I have hairy arms and was hoping nobody would notice!
I do feel self-conscious about them -- I wish a were stronger and could slough off the feeling of looking like a man, but I can't.

I've chosen not to do anything about it because temporary treatments seem like so much maintenance -- regrowth would be much more apparent on arms than on legs. And regrowth seems worse than just having an even blanket of hair. There is also laser treatment - I'd probably get that, but it's a low priority. Maybe other people would make it a higher one.

Probably one of the reasons I don't pay much attention to my hands and nails is precisely because i don't want to attract attention to them (being extensions of hairy arms). I also feel self-conscious wearing a 'statement' watch because it attracts attention to my hairy arms.

So there are quite a few hangups there, and it might be well worth it to get the problem taken care of.

As for society: I think you might be right about a new trend for a total lack of hair anywhere on women. I know that men for a while were shaving their chests (I think as an extension of the metrosexual trend) but have reverted back to hairiness, bushy beards being the chief indicator (which I kind of welcome - but not on my guy ;-)).

It's all fine Interestingly enough, I was headed to the salon for both a haircut and a manicure, so I mentioned this whole thread to my friend and aesthetician. We had quite the conversation about it. She says she waxes arms of both men and women all the time, and has done so for years. She also had an interesting observation : most of her arm waxing clients are the lowest on the general maintenance scale. In other words, they don't do their nails, eyebrows, hair etc.

What an interesting thread to read this afternoon and my first thought was "who is suggesting this" and "what difference does it make to me, personally" because in the long run I'll groom to my personal preferences (legs and underarms and my hairdresser cleans up the back of my neck on occasion) no matter what I read. I am very light-haired and have little hair on my arms so it wasn't something I thought about.

However, seeing that this has come around again as body maintenance for some and has been part of a grooming routine for others just reinforces to me that I don't want to add a lot of extra time to my beauty routine. I'd rather simplify and keep things as streamlined as I can and still remain open to what might appeal to me down the road.

Well I just read all of this and I hadn't heard of arm waxing before. I remember when I was about 24, and worked in retail banking, my boss (female) made fun of me because two of my fingers had a few hairs above the second knuckle. I felt self-conscious for a long time. (I even plucked them occasionally). But then I think I came to a realization that we naturally have hair for a reason, and some people have more, some have less, some is dark, light, coarse, fine, short, long.... whatever. I sincerely hope that no-one ever feels self-conscious about their natural hair status. Everybody is different, spice and all that

When I was a teenager, I thought my arms were hairy , ( fair skin, dark hair) but never did anything about it. In the summer, I'd get tan and the hair became blonde. But as I got older, the hair disappeared. And the rest of my body hair has become sparser. But I do shave legs and underarms, occasionally have eyebrows waxed, use Oil of Olay depilatory on my upper lip. Pretty low maintenance!

It is interesting how anti-arm-waxing many people here seem to be (for whatever reasons), and yet it seems almost everyone promotes the idea of "at least mascara and lipstick" for a special occasion, even if a woman normally wears no other makeup. If someone were to assume that hair removal had to be part of a woman's routine hygiene. most people would find that offensive. And yet, people jump on the bandwagon of "mascara and lipstick" as the basics for looking professional, put-together, or dressy, and almost no one balks.

Again, I have no issue with either one. I routinely remove body hair, and I do wear makeup (though I try to keep it "natural" looking), and I even try to wear clothing that makes my figure appear more conventionally flattering, so I am completely brainwashed by societal norms. I just find it interesting what we tend to accept and what we tend to rebel against, both as individuals and as a group (women in general).

I don't feel like I need lipstick, and I wear mascara because my eyelashes are so light that you can't see them without it. I would wax my arms if I had dark arm hair, just because I would feel sensitive about it. These are personal choices, though. No judgement.