La Francaise, I'm sure you're right, and I'm going to try very hard to wrap my brain around the European concept of "not being able to afford to buy cheaply". Intellectually, I understand it, but old habits and mindsets die hard. I suppose it's a little like me trying to convince someone to buy a used car with cash (like we do) instead of borrowing money to buy a new one with payments. I tell people we can't afford to pay anyone interest, and it's true!

Also, like Traci mentioned, without a crystal ball, I'm really not sure which items are going to turn out to be those wonderful wardrobe workhorses. I've made some expensive mistakes in the past (before children) $200 pumps that turned out to be uncomfortable and a $300 bag that just drove me crazy the way it fell over that I couldn't use it. On the other hand, I've had some surprisingly inexpensive items whose cost per wear I happily drove down to pennies.

I'm hoping to hone my skills with less expensive (but still good quality) items until I feel more sure of myself, and that's precisely what you and the wonderful women of YLF are helping me with.

LF,
Thank you for being so open and frank. I've really enjoyed reading this thread - lots of great insight and approaches.

As for budget/planning, well I didn't have one. I just didn't spend what I couldn't afford and pay off in full at the end of the month. I definitely am an 'emotional' / recreational shopper and I've been doing a lot of self reflection to address what, I think, are my excesses. Now, I've been really trying to focus on better, investment clothes.

My mother-in-law (MIL) lives in Paris and I totally understand your sensibility about buying and WEARING investment pieces. This has been a fairly new approach for me - and I do agree that "investment" has different meanings and priorities for each of us. I am always inspired by my MIL's elegance (she does laundry in a skirt and hose) and her beautiful wardrobe. OT -- she was in Chicago visiting my brother-in-law and ended up buying a very dressy skirt at Nordstroms. She had purchased the skirt to go with a Designer jacket that she owned for years (and didn't have with her) and had had trouble finding something in Paris. She wore the outfit at a cousins wedding at the French Opera House. So Nordies to the rescue.

Shout out to MD! I grew up in North Potomac not too far from the border of DC. My parents still live in the same house, so I go down to visit often. My kids tried steamed crabs for the first time last year - the verdict was too much work -- but I love them. I just had the best crab cake ever at a place called Timbuktu on our way back from visiting Fort McHenry in Baltimore.

Out of curiosity, do you ever go to vintage clothing shops? I found a couple by accident in the Passy area a couple of years ago when were visiting my husband's family. Also, my MIL just took to a great discount place in Passy last december. It had everything from clothing to home goods.

I always enjoy reading your delightful and insightful posts.

This is an interesting thread! My problem with the idea of buying fewer, high quality items is that I lead such a messy life! I am an elementary teacher, and have a big, shedding dog at home, so between those things and gardening/cooking/etc, I really need clothes that wash easily. Although I like the idea of buying fewer investment pieces, more expensive clothing is often dry-clean only, which is a problem. Also, I don't to be too upset if a first-grader dumps paint on me or I spill spaghetti sauce on myself.

In general what I've done is to use cheap pieces as my wardrobe staples - and treat them as investment pieces - but it is certainly different psychologically than having really nice clothing items I invest in. I've thought about buying some higher-quality clothing, but I just can't imagine it lasting more than a couple of years (or it just wouldn't get worn much if I saved it for non-messy times).

Lokibear and Claire, I have a similar quandry with concentrating on quality pieces. When your lifestyle is not such that you are walking city streets or going to an office, but maybe dealing with children, or pets, or rural surroundings or hot hot weather - things that mean more wear and tear on your clothes - it's hard to change the mindset of a few $10 or $15 tops that can be laundered every week for the season to a nice silk blouse or button front that needs care.
Sometimes our very lifestyles are not conducive to quality over quantity lol, although I for one, wish it were!! My reality involves dirt and sweat quite a bit of the time, whether I'm in FL or the Sierras.

It's interesting to hear about the different clothing philosophies we have about our wardrobes. Buy investment items and wear them until they are worn out. Buy cheaper items to find out whether or not you like a new style or shape to avoid costly mistakes. Buy inexpensive clothes that don't require much care and can be easily replaced for a "messy" lifestyle.

It seems that all of these philosophies can be valid given that we can lead such different lives. But LF's approach is one that my mother and grandmother would have adopted without question because, in their era, clothing was always an expensive proposition. It's been only in the last few decades that the cheap, "fast" fashion has been a first-world alternative. But, as more and more commentators are pointing out, cheap fashion does come with a BIG downside. Manufacturers and retailers are constantly looking for ways to cut corners on quality to keep prices down. Most inexpensive clothing that is donated ends up in landfills or shipped in bulk to third-world countries where it destroys local textile industries. Shopping becomes an addictive hobby where we get caught up in the excitement of a new "fix".

Although I've always maintained a smallish wardrobe and leaned towards "investment" dressing, I notice that more and more cheap fashion is creeping into my wardrobe. By cheap fashion, I don't mean an inexpensive item that becomes a wardrobe workhorse. To me, cheap fashion is something that I've bought because I'm following a trend that is not particularly flattering on my body, or that I bought on impulse without thinking about how it fit into my wardrobe, or that I purchased because it was on sale, or that I bought in multiples.

Thanks, LF, for giving me a wake-up call. I'm off to put on my apron to protect my "investment" outfit-- just like my mother and grandmother!

I was just taking to my Mom about the issue of buying fewer, high quality garments and keeping them for a long time. One observation she mentioned to me was that many things she is trying to keep and maintain, are made in a way that is not conducive to repairs. One example she gave was that back in the Soviet Union, most elastic waist clothing was designed to make stretched out elastic easy to remove. You pulled it out of the waistband (which had a convenient hole on the inside for removing the elastic), inserted a new piece with a safety pin attached to one end to make it easier to thread the elastic through the waistband, connected the end, and voila! new waistband. Nowadays, many clothing items, such as pajama bottoms, have waistbands that are stitched right through the elastic.

My Mom is retired so she does not have much money to spend on clothes and a lot of time for sewing so she just soldiers on and spend several hours taking apart and repairing the waistbands and such. But she was musing on how the cheap, labor-saving construction makes it more difficult to maintain clothing. And I will admit, if I have to spend several hours repairing a $20 item, it is not worth my time.

I wonder if higher quality pieces, such as Burberry trenches, are still made in a way that allows for repairs and upkeep more easily.

Makramé,

I have never had to have my Burberry 'serviced', but I have had experience with other designers. I had a really lovely Max Mara coat that, after ten years, needed relining. I asked in the Max Mara boutique if they knew of a good tailor who made alterations for them, and they asked me if I could leave my garment with them for 15-21 days, I accepted, and when I returned for it, it had been beautifully relined in Max Mara's own workshop. Not only that but the coat, including the real-fur trimmed hood had been professionally cleaned. When I asked for the bill, I was told 'But Madame, didn't you know there is a lifetime after-sales service on our clothes?'. So it's good for another ten years with care. (It's an Italian design twist on a classic Canadian parka, so it won't date.). I had a similar experience with a Longchamp handbag that had beautiful saddle stitching that had come undone in one high-friction spot. Again it was repaired for free, and returned to me with some complimentary leather creme and in a brand new Longchamp fabric 'dust-bag' for storage. Those are my only two experiences, I'm afraid, but they lead me to think that other top designers do the same. Oh, wait. On a slightly different tack my wristwatch had to be returned to Omega in Switzerland because the gold clasp had lost it's spring. It was returned fully serviced, and the 18ct gold clasp replaced without charge.

I love the idea of buying better items vs. buying lots of lower quality stuff. I haven't been able to live it out that well since I've had to replace my entire wardrobe in the last 15 months. My plan is to upgrade through attrition. As certain items wear out I hope to buy better items. For example, when my basic black cotton sweater needs to be replaced, I plan to buy a decent quality cashmere version.

And some items just cry out to be relatively inexpensive, for instance white t-shirts. I'm going to stain the expensive ones just as fast as the cheap ones so I might as well save my money for something that will last longer in my closet.

There's no way I could have followed this philosophy from the beginning of improving my wardrobe, but I can lean more that way as time goes on.

For what it's worth, The Vivienne Files has been discussing this exact topic: http://theviviennefiles.blogsp.....ormal.html

I don't see me ever getting down to 33 wardrobe items, and tend to think it's almost impossible for those who live with four true seasons. It would also be very difficult if not impossible for someone who spends their days in an office and takes care of young children at home. But being more mindful about the amount we buy makes sense to me.

I think there's a way to meld these ways of thinking. No matter what your lifestyle, it makes sense to spend on quality for those items where it will be cost-effective. The details of that will vary from one person to another, but the principle holds.

When I was the young mother of five children, that pretty much meant my winter coat, a couple of blazers, a pair of good pants. Winter boots I preferred to spend a bit more on too, because in our climate, it really matters if your cheap ones don't even make it through the season. I didn't buy white pants, because grubby little fingers always had them dirty within fifteen minutes. And most of my clothes were cheap, both out of financial necessity and because they were going to get stained so quickly anyway.

Now I am in another phase of life, and I will be able to start thinking a bit differently. But I am one of those people who has been going through a complete wardrobe overhaul because of my changing body, and I will stick to cheap for most things until it's over. Except for the things that I can keep for a number of years.

And it really is true that sometimes you buy "cheap" and get lasting quality anyway.

JR;

All you say there makes sense, BUT Gaylene raises an interesting point when she says that it is only in recent years that clothes have become 'cheap' in the developed world. That raises more than a sartorial issue: it introduces a moral one too. I'd love to ask the advocates of fast, cheap, here-today-gone-tomorrow disposable 'trendy' fashion to look at their labels. I guarantee that in the overwhelming majority of cases this is because it has been made in developing world sweatshops working 24/7 and employing sweated labour to produce it.

Now, I spend 3-4 months of each year in some of the poorest countries of the world. I am a great advocate of rich-world manufacturers sourcing their raw materials from countries for whom cotton, to name just one example, is the only cash crop. I think it is immoral that the US government hands out subsidies to cotton farmers that exceed the GDP of Mali, Niger and Burkina Faso combined (the leading African cotton producers). I rejoice when top labels make a conscious decision to favour these countries when importing their raw materials, which they then turn into well-made clothes, paying their employees a good salary for their cutting skills or their craftsmanship. BUT, I DESPISE stores like H&M or Zara who sell the fruits of sweatshop labour, and I invite all YLFers who buy such things to examine their consciences!

LF, I related your story about the Max Mara coat to my mom, and she was amazed that this level of service/care still exists.

The conversation about coats/trenches led her to reminisce about a "summer coat" that her mother used to have, which was custom made by a tailor and worn for many years (as were most of my grandmother's clothes). She also remembered that her grandmother (my great-grandmother) used to own a lightweight summer coat that was called (in Russian) a "truacar". I looked the work up online and apparently it comes from a French word meaning 3/4 (as in jacket or coat that covers 3/4 length of a dress). Is there a similar/related term for a item of clothing in French?

Yes, Makrame, there is. The French word for three-quarters is trois-quarts. Hence, a three-quarter length coat is often referred to as a 'trois-quart'.

LF, I am glad to hear that you look at the labels. I do it too. Ir's one reason why I refuse to shop at Old Navy (just as an example) and prefer smaller independent designers, especially those who make their clothes in the USA or their own country of origin. Angie always says that style is available at every price point, and it is true, but I am lucky enough to be able to afford choice, and so I vote with my wallet. Even with used clothing!

I have not read every single post yet, but I intend to do so. This post has really inspired me. I have always watched my clothing budget, but it never occurred to me to include beauty/hair costs as well. I think I should. I am going to sit down today and look at what has been spent to date (for this year) and plan on what I should spend for the remainder of the year. Thank you so much for this post.

This is a very interesting thread. I am in the process of customizing the plan for my new home and while reading through this thread realized that I am applying many of the principles espoused to my new home purchase but don't apply them to my wardrobe. For example, I added a 7' addition to the kitchen and redesigned the cabinetry at an incremental cost of $12,000 because the kitchen will be an integral part of the home for our planned lifestyle. I am making decisions based on the use of the upgrade and putting the money towards items that will give the greatest utility.

I have followed the spend until I am running low on money for the period philosophy but find that much of my wardrobe languishes unused and unworn because I lack discipline and planning. When I gained weight this winter, I bought fewer basic pieces and found that even then, only about half of them were worn with great regularity. My great downfall is that I lose interest in pieces fairly quickly and use shopping as recreation. Perhaps by reallocating that time to my fitness regime, I can keep my weight more consistent and avoid the over-shopping issue.

As I read through this thread, it gelled that I need a plan AND a budget. I am turning 50 this fall and plan to retire when I am 55 (6 years). My wardrobe needs will be much different after retirement.

Thanks LF and all of the posters for your insight. It has been very thought provoking.

La Française, that is an excellent point. I boycotted chocolate for a long time (unless it was fair trade) for this very reason. I gave up in frustration when I realized that I would have to boycott almost everything to eliminate unfair and destructive practices. The amount of research involved in knowing what to buy and what not to buy was simply overwhelming.

That said, I would be very glad to spend more responsibly if I knew how to do it. So if anyone on here can share the names of brands - especially lower-end ones - that do not use sweat shops, I would be very grateful.

I'm not even sure if it was overtly said, but this thread has also inspired me to take some items in that have been needing alterations. I think sometimes we buy multiples of things because we're looking for the one that fits perfectly right off the rack, when it may just need a nip or tuck to be perfect. I also located a cobbler very near to my place of work who I will be visiting soon for a little stretch to the toe of a pair of beautiful booties and a coating on the leather soles of my new oxfords.

I think the upkeep of our clothes is a huge thing we've lost sight of. I've only recently learned how much kinder it is to my clothes to hang them up after a wearing if they are not terribly soiled, rather than washing and drying everything in the machines every time I wear them. I know that my clothes that need mending tend to get forgotten because I have so many replications. Having only one perfect thing and then losing or ruining that one perfect thing is definitely something that holds me back.

I've been living with a more limited closet capsule lately, but I'm thinking of culling it down to around 30 items to see how it feels.

JR,

If you are really interested in learning to know how to privilege 'fair trade' and refuse cheap goods at the cost of exploiting other more vulnerable people in some of the poorest countries, the World Council of Churches maintains a regularly up-dated list. I can get one for you. It's what I use, and it's why I singled out H&M and Zara as two of the worst culprits, because the WCC along with concerned individuals have lobbied and petitioned them to no avail. As far as I'm concerned their practices are as obscene as those of the slave-traders in the past!!

This has been a most inspiring and informative read. Thank you for starting the conversation, LF.

Like many, I struggle to find the balance between maintaining a reasonable clothing budget and building a workable yet fashionable wardrobe. I've been fortunate to have found YLF at a time when I could afford to spend a little more on clothing than I had in the past, but even so I've been feeling it's time to rein in the spending a bit. For the first time in my life, during 2012, I've kept track of how many new items I've purchased and how much I've spent....and it's higher than I would have predicted. I haven't put our budget in peril, but I have decided that to continue to spend this much on a yearly basis would be wasteful when there are so many other things my money can do.

I do love the 'concept' of a very small wardrobe, but my extremely varied 4-season climate really requires a larger collection than the 33 items Vivienne suggests. I also think I would become bored with such limited options. Before I found YLF I actually had a very tiny closet of neutral basics (dresses, denim, tees, and blouses) that I perked up with scarves and jewelry. It was fine, but I am much happier with my now larger wardrobe that allows room for the prints and patterns I love so much.

There is beauty in restraint and balance, though, and now that my wardrobe is in such lovely shape (thanks to YLF) I think it is time for me to start a new phase of more thoughtful wardrobe cultivation. Thanks again LF and all for the insights on this topic.

Nancylee,

It seems as if you have an excellent grasp on what works for you. If this thread has helped just a wee bit to hone your unique style, and to start 'investment' dressing according to your own priorities, then that's just great, too! Thanks for the feedback!

This really has been a terrific read and so thought provoking. I must confess to being one of the people who had a major "haul" from the Nordstrom Anniversary Sale, both this year and last. Last year I was in the midst of a major wardrobe renovation - a huge closet edit (with Angie's help) followed by (hopefully) thoughtful and purposeful investments in new items. This year, I've found that my style is continuing to evolve. Many of the pieces I bought last year are the mainstays of my modern classic wardrobe. This year, I've wanted to try to "edge" up my style a bit and have added pieces that will help accomplish that goal, but still work with the other items.

My career requires that I dress professionally and has provided me with the means to do so - I recognize that I'm quite fortunate in that regard. But that doesn't preclude me from needing to be thoughtful in how much I spend. Last year, budget kind of went out the window at NAS (and after) as I rebuilt my wardrobe. This year, when NAS came around, my husband and I discussed what would be a reasonable amount to spend and I've been carefully tracking my purchases and it has been quite interesting to see how that budget has forced me to think more carefully about each purchase. I have taken back many less-than-perfect items that I might have kept if I didn't have that budget holding me accountable.

I also have to say that Nordstrom is simply the store where I consistently have the best luck. They have a great petite department; they have everything from lingerie to business to casual to shoes. I'm most consistently satisfied with the quality of my Nordstrom purchases and if I'm not, back it goes and I've never had a problem with returns. That's is the type of dedication to customer service that I will reward with my clothing dollars. Therefore, I save my pennies for NAS and much of my budget goes toward this sale. Not only that, but I now have an alterations budget there that will allow me to get my Nordstrom pieces altered (many for free, since often it's just a hem or shortening sleeves). I just took in four items that have been languishing in my closet because the fit wasn't quite right. Three of those pieces are going to require some fairly extensive alterations and I might have balked at those alterations if I had to pay for them. I essentially just added four practically new pieces by having the alterations done - for free to boot!

My goal now is to do another major closet edit, get rid of any not-perfect pieces and enjoy what I've purchased! Additions from now on will be *very* thoughtful and likely include some of the "investment" pieces that you've referred to.

Whew - didn't mean for this to turn into a novella! But very useful for me! :)Thank you for the excellent topic.

ETA: I hope this doesn't come across as "defensive" of my NAS purchases! This was a timely post as I've been wondering a bit about how much I have spent this year at NAS and this has helped me define the value of my purchases. I feel good about where I am! So truly a thank you!

Christy,

You are clearly 'on track' to becoming a very elegant and chic woman!!!

OF COURSE you spent a lot the first year at the NAS. In the situation you describe, it makes perfect sense. The fact that you took a joint decision with your husband this year, and stuck to an agreed budget is very wise. Well Done!!

I too have been delighted with my NAS purchases. I stuck strictly to what I needed to replace, like my 20-year-old Burberry, and was thrilled when it arrived, and I found that even with shipping and taxes, I had made several hundreds of dollars of savings., The same with my Diane Von Furstenberg silk dress. I just love it, and it, too, was a great purchase. Would you believe that until I joined YLF I had no idea what the NAS meant?? LOL!! Thanks for responding so thoughtfully!

Great thread! When I originally discovered YLF, I had recently lost weight. I needed to overhaul everything. I was fortunate to be in a financial position I didn't have to worry about how much I was spending. You don't want to know how much I spent... I bought way too much. Some turned out to be investment pieces, other pieces were inexpensive and more like experiments to get me out of my style shell. Some of these inexpensive pieces worked well, and I then invested in better versions. Others did not work -- but I learned a valuable lesson that they just weren't "me" -- and these items have been released.

At a certain point, I realized I had arrived at "enough." But I still enjoyed the hunt. So I established a monthly clothing budget and stuck to it for a long time. Except then something happened: I found that I truly really honestly DID have "enough" -- and I began to discover I wasn't spending my monthly budget. "Oh, I already have something just like that... " and I'd leave empty handed.

This is around the time I stopped posting on the forum. I shifted instead to a seasonal, rather than monthly, shopping pattern. I would let the monthly money accrue, then go on one big whopping excursion at the start of the season. I would buy maybe 3-4 new pieces, not necessarily replacements. Just items that gave me a smile and refreshed my wardrobe to feel more current. I admit I didn't even bother waiting for sales, since I had the budget, having waited for several months to build it up.

Keeping to a budget has been great -- it's enabled me to save up for kids' college tuition. For the next four years, my budget is going to continue to be constrained by those costs. But there's more to it than that -- it's great discipline and it does make you strategize and think through your wardrobe, what makes sense to invest in, what to add for just the right trendy touch.

I will say here that my biggest gripe is that I'm so petite, it's rare that regular size clothes fit me right, without requiring extensive tailoring (if it was just a hem, no biggie... but often I am told it is a total 'remake' and not worth it). My gripe is that petite clothing is made of inexpensive fabrics. I would LOVE to add some high-end designer pieces but they just don't fit me. Don't get me wrong, i do just fine in Ann Taylor and Banana Republic, which aren't cheap -- but they aren't designer either.

That said, i do have fun with purses and shoes. However, I have learned that there's only so many of those that I need.

I am quite happy with where my wardrobe is at this time. However, there are some pieces now targeted for replacement, and I'm mostly focused on that -- with the occasional trendy whim thrown in. The J Crew coat I bought years ago when I first joined YLF is still going strong, and the cobalt color is even still on trend. That was probably one of my best purchases. There are still a few ever-elusive purchases, like the perfect knee-high boots in a color light enough for spring transition, and the perfect red purse. I am content to wait for perfection on these items. In the shoe department, believe it or not, I have only added two new pairs in about two years (the SW ballet flats and a pair of Jcrew metallic flip flops).

I am also focused on dresses lately -- cannot seem to get enough of them.

Shiny,

It's clear from reading you that you have become one heck of a savvy, budget conscious, 'investment dressing' aware fashionista! I salute you!

What a great thought-provoking thread! Thanks LF! I love reading everyone's perspective.

ETA: removed because it somehow was taken in the wrong spirit. I was just trying to tell my personal story, not pass judgment on anyone else's style!

goldenpig,

Well all I can say is that leaves you questioning both my personal fashion-sense, as well as that of virtually every chic, elegant Frenchwoman!! I don't know how well you have read this thread, or the one Jayne has started, where I stated exactly where I was coming from, but judging from your reaction I would guess it is only very superficially. Are over 30 million of the best-dressed women in the world so very wrong according to the 'wisdom' of goldenpig???

LF,
Please don't take it personally, I wasn't judging you at all. I am just very down right now about my own personal fashion quandary. It has nothing to do with you at all. I'll remove my post since it seems you have taken it in the wrong light. I think you are super stylish and would love to be as stylish as you.
So sorry! Please don't take offense! I'll slink away now.

Thinking about my spring purchases, it's interesting because what happened is that I wound up wearing these few purchases to death. I really could get away with a much smaller wardrobe. Easily.

I bought just four items:

1) an "on trend" ponte knit color block sheath (beige, black and florescent citron) from AT;
2) a very nice, classic light grey lightweight wool sheath from Theory (one of the rare higher-end brands I can sometimes fit into);
3) another Theory dress, navy blue, very well made in a knit.
4) a fun AT clutch made out of cork.

I have worn all these items constantly, dressed down and dressed up, to work, to play, and out at night. #3 is still going strong this summer; #1 and #2 still work for AC'd office days. They all mix and match seamlessly into the rest of my wardrobe. #1 was just the shot of trendy that I craved. #2 and #3 will prove to be wardrobe workhorses for years to come, as they are both simple and timeless styles in neutral colors. And #4 was just too much of an unusual statement to pass up.

This is what happened with my winter and my fall purchases as well, though I am hard pressed to remember what I bought.

This summer I've mostly focused on replacing sun dresses. Summer clothes wear out so much more quickly than anything else. I bought the two maxis and a simple, inexpensive black knit dress from ATL. Summer is also my time of year to refresh lingerie and pj's.

Last summer, all I bought was the Jcrew metallic flip flops (I don't find flip flops comfortable but wow, these are!) and a Jcrew straw beach bag. That's it.

Fall is my biggest splurge season of the year since I live in Boston.

I probably need to replace my white leather bag. It's going on 3 years now. I took it in this winter and had it cleaned. They did a decent job but white is hard to get pristinely like-new clean -- I think this may be it's last season. I also took my favorite nude sandals in and a pair of nude heels and had those cleaned "good as new" too. The sandals are going on 5 or 6 years now -- surprising! This is what I love about quality shoes and purses: they can be revived, resoled, cleaned, hardware changed etc to last for years and years... this is one area to spend $ on.

I simply couldn't agree more, shiny!! May I make just one suggestion? If you had bought that white leather handbag in a light camel, a beige or nude shade, it wouldn't need replacing! (One of the little tricks of this whole 'investment dressing' ethos! :-))

goldenpig,

There's absolutely no need to slink away!! I admit I was puzzled an hour ago. Last week you posted a thread on WIW which, if I remember rightly, you said you hoped was a Parisian chic look, and which I highly endorsed as being 'spot-on' Parisian, then suddenly, today, you APPEARED to be ridiculing the Parisian attitude. I'm sorry for my less than gracious response! Forgiven??