There is such a variance isn't there in what is allowed in a workplace.

StagF- I wasn't offended, I just was putting some context on why conforming was important.

Donna - haha!!

I agree that the ambiguity can be hard and that maybe a clear set of guidelines makes it better for people to know. Most workplaces are diverse and some things are not obvious.

Sal, I forgot to mention that I had my own rule - NEVER wear fashion sneakers at client appointments, unless I was at the NAS doing 23,000 steps a day.

THAT has changed the last few years. I now wear very clean, crisp and polished fashion sneakers to client meetings if I need to. But always with a dressy outfit. Not jeans, IYKWIM.

Angie - I think that's the key is to mix the more casual pieces with more elevated ones.

Flat/strappy sandals are fine in our workplace - but I would wear them with trousers or a midi skirt, not with shorts (at work- outside work definitely). If I wore tailored shorts, I would wear loafers or dressier shoes. But it does make it a bit confusing to articulate!!

I think you hit the nail on the head Sal -- and the reason dress codes just end up eliminating whole categories of clothing is that it's too hard to explain the nuances.

Take "no denim" for example. Applies the same to an ill fitting pair of basic jeans as to a lovely denim shirt dress styled with dressy loafers and elevated accessories. Or a beautiful women's shorts suit being off limits because of a no-shorts policy -- even though the shorts are the same length that would be acceptable for a skirt.

The thing that makes me most uncomfortable about dress codes is when they mainly target women, specifically getting women to cover up parts of their bodies that hetero males are attracted to.

For me, I try to be comfortable, physically and emotionally, with what I'm wearing, and I try to let the people around me be the same. There is so much nuance and baggage with what people wear. It makes me wonder why we have dress codes at all, and what we're afraid will happen if we got rid of them.

Jenava, I absolutely agree! It starts in middle school, with girls being told that their changing bodies are indeed a problem, and that their learning is less important than boys’. I recall waiting in the school library once, while my mother brought something to cover a sundress that had been ok the previous year.

There is baggage I agree StagF and Jenava - same with school uniforms etc... That's the reason why I have steered away from all but the most basic one covering off health and safety and client meeting expectations.

Things are changing - and we should be judging people on their work rather than their clothes....but we don't. How you dress is a part of you - and we are all making impressions all the time. So many nuances about the whole situation that do make it challenging.

I get that the more cerebral among us tend to not realize when their physical presentation is making others, who don't know them well, uncomfortable (clients, for example, who need to trust them). In my somewhat limited experience, most women have been coached from a young age to be hyper aware of this, sadly. I've definitely seen the male version of inappropriate work attire. Too small or dirty is probably not something you'd think you need an HR policy about...and these are very well paid folks...

Some of our engineers can be almost celebral. The one that turned up with two different shoes unknowingly, the one that has worn the same sweater every winter day for about five years. They mostly love the free shirts and jackets we provide - because it saves them money and time.

I probably think if you have expectations they should be spelled out at the start (at interview time) and if they are unusually prescriptive then you should be providing a uniform.

Those “cerebral” folks are my people!

You guys are describing another interesting nuance: when is dress code an HR issue, and when is sartorial advice part of mentoring? I see “dress code” as mandatory, and all advice as suggestion/up to the receiver to decide.

As far as engineers ignoring their appearance, could it be that clients prefer the engineer looks that way, that they are signaling a focus on the work, and a single-mindedness that will be appreciated?

Interesting conversation. I never worked in an office that had a dress code. My whole career I have been working for UN and it is tricky to establish dress code in a place where people come from all over the world and imposing western standards would not seem fair. But western style of outfits is the norm, and only sometimes on Fridays some would wear their national clothes even though there is no casual Friday as such here.
Most of the people do dress professionally, especially male colleagues that usually wear shirts and dress pants or even suits, but I have also seen some very inappropriate outfits among younger females that look like they are dressed for going clubbing or to the beach instead of office.
In absence of established dress code, I have my own rules. I could wear jeans to work if I want to, for example, but I chose not to. Same for the open toed shoes. But on the other hand my outfits are much more colorful than the norm and I stick out in the sea of black, navy and gray.

Stag, that's what I was sort of trying to get at, in a roundabout way. I think it's perfectly fine to coach dressing for a role (because, biases, impressions, etc. are powerful elements that anyone, cerebral or not, needs to understand to make their way in the world). I get a bit squidgy about mandating dress, personally, although I may be in the minority there. I am seriously curious what we think would happen if we didn't implement a dress code.

And an aside; at my husband's work, they mandate a dress code/uniform for the "techs" but not the PMs or sales folks. The message sent to the techs was that they were not trusted to be able to dress presentably and therefore were "lesser than" the other office-based roles. So dress code can be a weapon, too.

I think you put that well StagF and Jenava - that coaching or guidelines can be helpful to people wanting to progress or learn, but rules can be too prescriptive and discriminatory at times.

Anchie - I too have some self imposed rules, more so in my voluntary work that in my paid work.

I am lucky in our workplace it hasn't been needed - but I remember a very early job I had when I had to advise an office temp (who the client liked) that she had body odour and that she needed to address that as it was impacting on colleagues at close quarters. I was the temp consultant. It didn't go well - she resigned in offence, and the client was sad to lose someone they liked and respected. But it was too sensitive a topic to address and whilst I thought I handled it okay - but the result was not great.