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OT: NYTimes article

Mac

Veteran

I know many of you are interested in issues like (angie) living in smaller homes; (laura) shopping your closet; (can't remember who) shopping bans, etc. I experiment with living with less... in my head! I'm not a big shopper but I AM a Maximalist - I find it hard to let go of any and ever item - and I'll always be surrounded by Stuff.

Anyway, I thought this article from the NYTimes about happiness and buying would interest some of you. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08.....nsume.html

I'm curious about your thoughts on the article. Everyone here is interested in style: how does your love of clothes and beauty and style gel with these theories that less is more, and that spending money on experiences will bring more joy than spending money on tangible items like shoes?

General

21 replies

Latest reply was from Iris

bj1111

Veteran

i definitely subscribe to the philosophy of spending on experiences, particularly those that i can share with my husband and family. this is usually travel. when my husband and i first dated, i took him to canada for his birthday (surprise trip, just over the border from our town). now, we have a tradition of being out of the country for his birthday. tricky during 9/11, but not impossible.

as i've made more of a conscious effort to appreciate my parents and cultivate an adult relationship with them, travel really eases the way. we've taken a few vacations together. it's a good way to see my parents in a different environment.

chewyspaghetti

Veteran

I read that article when it came out Mac. I don't know, there have been some studies that show the decrease of stress from vacations only last a short period of time (3 weeks or something like that). If you have a functioning wardrobe of high quality items, then an experience may benefit you more than yet another piece of clothing. For me, I find that my day to day life is so much better and more satisfying if I can get a functioning wardrobe in hand. I had to do this with my small summer dress capsule, and now am working on my loungewear capsule. For the same price, I could have gone on an outing somewhere for a day. But having that functioning wardrobe serves me better in the long run, and is better for my mental health. I guess they are talking about extraneous stuff, but whose definition? Having aesthetically pleasing surroundings does the same for my mental attitude as having a functioning wardrobe.

Kate

Veteran

My boyfriend and I spent a summer living in an apartment that was all in all 370 sq ft, and we were both very happy to leave it after three months! I can't imagine living long term in a 400 sq ft studio - our current 600 sq ft place is no bigger than we need, but large enough that we can do our own thing in different parts of the house and get some crucial alone time.

Also, many of the ideas in this article have been implemented in the happiness project: http://www.happiness-project.com/ It's a lot of monthly and weekly thinking points and goals that are supposed to make us happier!

judy

Veteran

This is food for thought about investing in experience instead of stuff, Mac.

I think we tend to invest in things that support us...functional wardrobe, kitchen equipment, gadgets. I wouldn't say that they buy me happiness, but they do buy me ease. I find too that much of the experiences in life that are the most fulfilling don't necessarily cost a lot of money. Sunsets are free and they happen every where, for example :)!

While it's wonderful to have a pendulum swing away from mindless over consumption, i wonder if big houses and too many things don't make us happy, then small spaces and giving it all away might not necessarily either? Happiness feels like it's a function of how I'm using my mind, what I'm paying attention to, whatever is surrounding me and wherever I am.

But I love that people are having these conversations and trying new things. Thanks for posting!

Michelle

(website)

Veteran

I've got my journalist hat on here, so forgive me if I sound a bit strident, but I know I'd be a bit disappointed in myself if I turned in an article making such an obvious point. Money can't buy happiness? Does two plus two equal four? It's a truism, of course, but it's being treated as gospel in this piece of writing. An article advocating to stop keeping up with the Jones' is right up there with one saying that a balanced diet is better for your health. And I personally take great exception with people telling others how to live. I'm delighted for the lead subject in the article, applaud her for shedding her debt and hitting upon a lifestyle that works for her..but getting smug and sanctimonious accomplishes nothing. How can she tell people not to invest in clothing when she doesn't know the impact it could have on their lives? I have devoted a lot of my spare income to fashion since discovering YLF, and the pleasure I get from the garments, and the assurances I've received that they actually suit me, have given me the sort of confidence I've lacked for years. You may be able to quantify my purchases, but you can't put a price on the benefits I've derived from them.

I also share Khris' viewpoint about my home. I want to be able to love my living space, not just tolerate it. If I chose to invest in a new couch, I would see the purchase as a way of sprucing up the most important space in my life. I would be able to enjoy it longer than a trip to Florida, and the movies I would watch on it, conversations I would hold on it, and out-of-town friends who could sleep on it all help create experiences of equal value.

Who's to say that the well-planned trip affords more pleasure than the spontaneous get-away? For some people who have followed rigid schedules all their lives, a last-minute trip could be the ultimate experience in liberation and refreshment. Ditto for the person who gets stressed out in the lead-up to an event and is more likely to overanalyze the upcoming vacation than simply anticipate the good times?

And as for purchasing a house, I had to grit my teeth at the suggestion that eschewing the one with the fancy kitchen represented the right way to do things. So the guy who bought the house near the hiking trail is happy with his choice. Good for him. Really. I know many outdoor enthusiasts who would make the same choice. But for those of us who love to cook and believe well-prepared, sit-down meals are a key feature of a happy home, a kitchen with all the bells and whistles would be irresistable. And it, too, could create experiences. Think of the friends you could have over for either organized or impromptu meals? Imagine the family gatherings that could take place under your roof? Consider the various culinary traditions from different cultures you could explore on the cheap and in your own way?

In short, I just bristle at the notion that possessions are synonymous with vice. As others have said, it's the way you use them that ought to count more.

*climbs off soap box* Sorry Mac!

chewyspaghetti

Veteran

*knuckle knock to my sista from anotha mutha*

bj1111

Veteran

money may not buy me happiness, but i can rent it by the hour.

Laura

(website)

Veteran

Go Michelle!

Mac, I linked to this story on my blog. It made me convinced that we SYCers are totally on trend

One point none of us can argue with: You can't take it with you.

Experiences, however, can go with you and live on in others, whether it's cooking a big family meal in your home's gorgeous kitchen or swimming with sharks off the coast of Costa Rica.

To me, that was the essence of the story. Of course it's an obvious point that money can't buy happiness, but given the number of people who live in homes with gorgeous kitchens and never turn on the oven, maybe people still need to hear it.

Honestly in thinking about the SYC project, I've come to the conclusion that some people buy stuff to fill holes in themselves. (Food can also be used in the same way). And really stuff can never fill the hole so what you have is never enough. The rejection of that behavior, and consumerism -- even though the reaction of living in a 400 sq ft house is way too extreme!! -- was the crux of the story to me.

p.s. One thing I do intend to leave behind is memories of myself looking fab in all our family photos, impeccably dressed and styled. That's where YLF comes in! Some day our relatives will say, "Oh look at Grandma (fill in blank). Wasn't she always dressed so beautifully?"

RoseandJoan

Veteran

I find these types of articles quite difficult, yes there are many people who could cut back on their spending and be happier with a higher disposable income BUT in London at the moment there are four out of ten children living in poverty, many people are struggling to provide the basics and no amount of cost cutting will help alleviate their problems.

I believe in trying to live within your means but how you spend your money is surely only of concern to you and your family.

Lisa

Veteran

These types of articles make me laugh. I agree with the point that too many people are striving to "keep up with the Jones's" and that causes debt and other issues. But at the same time, people that down size considerably (the article mentions only owning 4 plates, 2 pots and 3 shoes, to me this is the pendulum swiniging too much in the other direction. If you are truly happy with very few items, then more power to you. But getting on a “high horse” about it makes the downsizers no better to me than the “keeping up with the Jones’s” types. The motivations and degrees of happiness are key to these arguments on too much or too little stuff. I like the idea of, and strive for a balance.

Isabel

Veteran

Fascinating. I have been interested in this philosophy, with much interest, since I was in my mid-twenties. I read a book called " Your Money or Your Life " and it changed my life. I also follow Juliet Schor's work.

With all that said, it is an enormous struggle on many levels : environmental, spiritual, gratitude for the abundance, life priorities, mcaroeconomically, etc. It is especially hard with children involved. I work at not being extreme. I also read many years ago that our innate desire to "decorate" ourselves goes back to the beginning of humanity and it is natural. I think that it is all moderation and working what we've got.

Therefore, I think, that the experience of putting things together and feeling good during the day is very important. I know that after years of being sick and experiencing not looking, the alternative is good.

Kristine

Veteran

I've found that buying sometimes results in inconvenience or unhappiness. Many times I'll buy something only to return it. Then I spend another afternoon running it back to the store, checking if the credit showed up on my bank account, etc.. It really can suck your life away if you're on a continuous cycle. But at the same time I don't know that I'd feel stylish or satisfied with three pairs of shoes. It's all about balance and it's very individual.

As a few other people mentioned, I also dislike being told how I should live. There's a certain smugness in doing with less, implying that everyone else is wasteful and frivolous. Have you noticed how people who make do with less have to tell everyone else about it? The Year Without Shopping, The 100 Things Challenge, The Uniform Project. It makes you wonder if it's really for internal happiness or for external approval.

I think you can be interested in style and still embrace simplicity though. My wardrobe might actually be smaller now, but it's better. I don't necessarily mean more expensive, just more carefully selected. I've also been streamlining my house, but highlighting more of the things that are meaningful. So maybe the guideline for me is quality over quantity. I don't think that'll ever mean three pairs of shoes though.

shana

Veteran

I read a great article in one of my marketing classes on this subject called "The Fire of Desire" (http://www.acrwebsite.org/topic.asp?artid=189). I wish I could find the full text online but it basically deals with this idea from a more objective and educational viewpoint (and less sanctimonious!).

I absolutely agree about spending money on experiences rather than objects. Of course, you need certain basic needs met (and a certain number of said objects) before you can reach the point where you'd rather have the experience.

Mac

Veteran

I could an essay about this article, but don't worry : ) I won't.

I found it interesting that someone mentioned in the article only owned a few plates. Because, for me, having casual dinners with friends is a big piece of creating memories: the kind of things we're "SUPPOSED" to spend money on. I guess I could tell everyone "BYODW" (Bring your own dinner ware), but then if I didn't own a largeish table, multiple chairs, etc... I mean, sure, we could all sit on the floor and eat out of a communal pot with forks that we each brought from home but honestly, for me creating happy memories is often linked to having a certain level of stuff. I remember attending a wedding where I felt my dress looked dreadful and I swear that as happy as that day was, it's still coloured in my mind by memory of feeling frumpy.

So, while I agree with much of the overall "gist" of this piece, I don't think Stuff vs. Experiences can necessarily be separated quite as easily as it suggests.

crwilson

Veteran

Whenever I read this kind of article, I feel instantly guilty. And then I start to get irked. Yes, there is value to living with less and not having too much stuff. That said, I also feel like I can't be happy if I look bad. I think Chewy may have mentioned that she feels happiest with a workable wardrobe - I do too. I don't need much at all, but I do need to be able to get dressed in the morning without too much hassle and trouble. After I had my most recent daughter, I was (and am) really struggling with being overwhelmed, and it truly did (and does) help to at least make myself look decent each day. I felt better about myself and knew that at least I had done something small that was nice for myself.

Sally

Veteran

I do agree too that buying experiences makes sense. I dont feel guilty about buying clothes as I find dressing and looking good is a really creative experience. I tend to thrift shop also so I feel I am supporting charity etc and being creative and its such a fun experience. I never buy new furniture (except for our beds) but thats because I'm just not that into my house. When we moved into our apartment, we decided to just have 5 plates etc but it became a problem when we had guests. We have a lot more now. I also notice those people are childless...its really hard not to consume when you have children...Our lounge is full of toys and he wont give them up.
Overall I think how people spend their money is completely up to them, and as one person pointed out its a privilege to be able to make the choice because some people do not have the money for food let alone choices to save money.

Scarlet

Veteran

Amen, Michelle! (By the way, getting ready to invest in a couch today.)

I read this article awhile ago, and the thing about four plates really stuck in my head and bugged me. How can you ever cook for guests with only four plates?

Like I felt about the six-item wardrobe, why does it always have to be one extreme or the other?

Jenava

(website)

Veteran

Yeah, pretty much what Michelle said. I agree with her. I buy clothes not because I enjoy shopping, but because I enjoy wearing clothes and looking good!

judy

Veteran

I'm trying to have enough stuff to have good experiences, but not so much stuff that my experiences become predominately maintaining my stuff!

It's starting to sound like George Carlin's stuff routine. Did you ever see it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac

anne

Veteran

I have been working on a comprehensive response to this but it might have to wait (or never come!); just a few thoughts
- Agree with those who say how hard this would make hospitality. We like having people over and just today I discovered that we only had enough glasses for 7 people which is just enough! (my kids had their drinks in mugs and plastic cups) This is only because I keep breaking them. We often have largish groups of people over and for that reason our lounge seats 10 people and our family room about 14 (plus we have extra chairs around the place that can be moved around and needed. Sometimes I look admiringly at the uncluttered look of houses with only 1 or 2 couches - but these things are useful in supporting experiences and relationships that are important to us.
- also agree with those who said this would be a lot harder with children! That was my immediate response when I read this article. DH and I lived quite happily in a 1 bedroom flat when our oldest daughter was born. By the time we moved out she was 17 months and the place was crowded! And this despite the fact I bought her almost nothing in the way of toys. Once you have a child who you want to keep clean you really have to have have multiples of stuff (for the parents too). I have certain tendencies to minimalism (mainly in the area of not trying to acquire too much) but for instance where pre-kids I had bought 1 pair of jeans every 3 years, I now have about 6 pairs. It saves me stress to have enough clips for the girls hair.
- to Shana's point - we don't really know if everyone who does this talks about it do we? Because if they did it and didn't talk about it we wouldn't know about it!

That is it for now...

Iris

Maybe it's the 'Bay Area activist' in me, but I disagree with your thought about this Kristine:

"Have you noticed how people who make do with less have to tell everyone else about it? The Year Without Shopping, The 100 Things Challenge, The Uniform Project. It makes you wonder if it's really for internal happiness or for external approval."

I remember before the recession, I was so overwhelmed by the "buy, buy buy" movement that seemed to be going on - it drove me nuts. I remember those projects well before they ever started, and they are not 'showing off.' Part of societal change and progression is to provide alternatives to a lifestyle that we are accustomed to, and to introduce the idea of spending a little bit less, and thinking a little bit more about what we're doing.

The idea of these impactful blogs is to spurn the thinking process, and they're definitely not a soapbox for how we should live - they're making a huge statement so we can think a little more about how much we spend, how far our food/clothes/etc travel, how we're not making the fullest of our resources. Think about it in terms of a way to live a cleaner lifestyle, rather than them knocking on your door to change who you are intrinsically. These are not the same thing.

These bloggers are seeking inner happiness, and hoping to perhaps reach an audience that feels the same way too, or is willing to consider a type of thinking different from how they are living their life - it is not for external approval, as blogging does not always reap an audience. It's a bit like how YouLookFab is helping us become more stylish - I'm sure someone out there must think Angie is on her soapbox about how 'we're' supposed to look and dress, when that is a gross generalization all in itself. It's simply not true.