Wow, here I was thinking HE would be the deadbeat. Seems like she's either depressed or has an attitude. You should not have to be on her case - if she had any self-esteem or respect for you, she'd be making at least a superficial effort to act like she was trying. It sounds like she's one of those people who feels entitled to take whatever another person might give. Do you think Kurt is going to stick with her given her behavior? And is she on YOUR computer?

She definitely is showing some attitude She told me a few days ago that she 'supported' him for close to a yr while they were in a very small town, by watching their landlord's 3 kids (ages 7, 10 and 13) several hours a day while the landlord was working and made 1 or sometimes 2 meals (microwave) a day, so Kurt *should* allow her SOME (ie, apparently months) time off! Well, its going to take 2 incomes to get enough together to pay apt rent here in the city and 1st, last month rent, damage deposit etc...they've been together for about 8 yrs and thru some really rough times (mostly their own fault, honestly) so I think he'll stay...I think you nailed it with her behavior..and YUP, my computer and our *everything* else...I guess Im just really upset with them (mostly her) today...I honestly thought they would both appreciate the opportunity we are giving them and use the time to better their positions, not rack up her computer game scores

Maybe it's time to put the computer away? Or in your bedroom. Surely someone can't get upset with you for keeping *your* things under lock and key.

EDIT: I think that would qualify as making her a little less comfortable with sitting around all day - discomfort brings forth change!

I really cant, cuz Tim likes to use it in the living room and watch tv at the same time (plus its the only spot we have for it) but otherwise, yup, I'd be tempted! I told her about a kind offer to help with her resume, and she glared and damn near growled at me!

Password log in change??
I was afraid that your efforts to help might not be seen in the same light from their point of view. As I said, I had a similar thing with my very own mom in my place. Perception is reality for a person, unfortunately.

You're so right...Im so sorry you had that experience....I really thought when she called and was crying on the phone that she would honestly try...well, at least I know in my heart that we did what we could to help....who knows, maybe they'll still get it together...

I second Alaskagirl. Reading through these posts I was also thinking he'd be the deadbeat! Sounds like he is making some effort. Besides the temp jobs, is he actively looking for permanent work in the meantime?

As for the computer, I second the password protection. Is there a way to limit use hours for a certain login through some type of parental controls?? That way you could set it where she could use it in the evenings, but maybe not during the day when she should be out applying for help/jobs?

For me the computer is a distracting thing. Key in point, my plan for today was to fill out a part time job application for some extra money and go turn it in... instead I started a new blog and have been playing online.

I also know something about being seriously depressed. I used the computer to avoid other things/ interacting with people. Is there any cheap/free help in your area? If they are already on foodstamps, do they have other benefits available such as medicaid until they can get back on their feet? These open doors should be used as stepping stones, but that's another gripe.

BM, sounds like a "Come to Jesus" talk needs to take place. I second the suggestion that they be out of the house 6-8 hours during prime working time - if anything it will preserve your sanity. And I second the password protect function on your computer.

I would also make sure that your financial information is IN NO WAY accessible on your computer (password lists, bank account info, bookmarks).

I'm floored by the quantity of alcohol consumption and wondering if that might be a big part of Michelle's problem: she drinks, which makes her cranky and tired the next day, which makes her drink some more, and 'round it goes. She may well not be an alcoholic yet, but if she goes on like this she will be.

If you want to continue being supportive to her, the first thing I would suggest you help her with would be a heavy-duty vitamin and mineral supplement, so maybe she can get her head on straight. For any intervention more serious than that, I think more professional help (like AA) is advisable.

My husband and I are in the 28% tax bracket with no debt outside the mortgage, and we feel we can only afford a maximum of one restaurant drink or two at-home drinks per week per person. So having 2-3 drinks per day, especially given their finances, seems truly seems problematic to me. The folks I personally know at the 2-3 drinks per day level are ones that I would definitely say have a problem. I know that is stricter criteria than some doctor's assessments, but it is my experience....

Michelle's lack of motivation to follow through with her promise to you is completely unacceptable and it is a deal breaker, period.
They have a car to sleep in, they have no children to take care of.
You have a good concience for trying to help, they didn't follow through, and in fact Michelle lied about her intentions.
Ask yourself if you would act this way if the tables were turned and I think you might see that they are free loaders more than a couple who need to get back on their feet.
I would tell Michelle that it's over. You didn't offer her 2 months of sitting on your computer while she carries a grudge against her man about who's turn it is to support one another. This is a sign of character.

Sandy is so right. It doesn't sound like there was any discussion of her being allowed "time off" before they moved in - in fact, the very opposite. So where is that coming from now? She seems to be playing the victim here and making you and Kurt the bad guys. This is so unacceptable, and the sooner she gets some tough love the better. How is your husband coping with this situation?

Thank you all SO much! Just have a quick second before they come upstairs, but will write on the subject tomorrow! Hope Im not boring anyone with this.....

I'm not bored. I am waiting with fingers crossed, hoping Michelle steps up to the plate!

I agree with what Steph said earlier.

She sounds depressed and is using alcohol and the computers to get out of it. She also sounds somewhat hostile. I have been in this exact situation myself (except for the living situation, I paid rent to my roommate), and nothing anyone said helped me. Only time and hitting a lower bottom with alcohol/substances helped me, actually. I had to quit the substances, including smoking, plus got on the right psych meds, to pull me out of depression. But I was still down until I finally got busy working again.

In my experience, this is going to take her a long time and she needs to do it herself. My best advice to you is to lock up your alcohol, protect your computer info, and stick to the 2 month deadline. This is a matter of getting through it.

Please don't extend the 2 months even if she gets better, worse, or stays the same. You are powerless over her; only she can change her own life. The situation she is in has taken a lifetime to create, and your words or actions can't really change the tide -- to repeat, only she can change. I hope that makes some sense and I don't sound too heartless. If she is drinking I agree AA would be a great place to start, IF she takes the program to heart... most people don't, they discard the help available at AA and go on digging themselves deeper in a hole.

Really, my heart goes out to you and I am hoping this time goes without too much negative consequence to all of you.

Im SO sorry its taken so long to respond...my time on the computer is limited, and I dont dare open this thread while they are around...they need to walk right near the computer to go outside for one of their ever-present cigarette smoking. sessions. Thank you, Una, for mentioning the financial info! I did not even think of that! ack! Coco, and ALL the others, thank you SO much too! Everyone has been so kind and full of good ideas...Michelle *finally* applied for Disability, which I really doubt she'll get (but it gives her a good excuse to not look for a job) but if she gets it, which will take between 5-10 months, she will be eligible for Subsidized Housing, which would be a blessing...and another long wait. Kurt has worked a average of a few days a week We told him he should take other jobs that the daily temp offers if he cant get work at the Old Dutch potato chip factory he likes, but so far he hasnt done that once. Michelle told me she *must* wait for the County to contact her to switch her Food Stamps to this County (which I doubt) and only then can she apply for any other help..uh huh. But they can go and play Bingo a few night every week! NOT borrowing the money from us, anyway....but now, because of her not contacting the County on time, they wont get FS for July We are staying firm on the 8/31deadline....they've been ok at following our rules, EXCEPT for talking to B when they go in/out the door, which they do 2-4 x a hour, so gets upset and barks/growls...doesnt matter how many times I say anything, they just dont do it thanks again to everyone for their continued interest/patience with me on this!

Biscuitmom, I dont know how you do it...are you sure you're not a blood relative of morher Teresa?

You are wonderful! Hang in there, you're doing great.

ETA - OT did you ever take pics of your lovely bags...?

You're so sweet, ladies! SJ, I *needed* a good laugh, thanks T, yes, I finally got DH to take them, so I'll try and have him put them up soon...I dont know how to do a damn thing on the computer! Tonight is the 10th Anniversary of our 1st date, so we're going out to dinner at Broadway Pizza, where we had it...thanks for your interest!

I have been wondering how you're doing with this situation, B-Mom -- thanks for giving us an update.

At my job, I often encounter families who are perpetually on the brink of homelessness, and unfortunately the prognosis is not good. Some people have a single, unexpected crisis occur and suddenly find themselves in trouble, but often situations such as your friends have found themselves in are the result of long-term behavior patterns. It sounds like the same behaviors that are making your friend a challenging houseguest are the ones that landed her in this predicament -- and as we all know, long-term behavior patterns are notoriously difficult to change.

Good for you for sticking to your rules about the length of their stay. Might be a good idea to go step-by-step with them over what their plan is if the deadline arrives and their circumstances haven't changed.

Thanks, April....Im sure you are right. I did try talking to Michelle the other day about it, but all she would say is 'I guess we will be homeless' and walked away Im sure they wont be financially ready to move (especially going out to bingo sometimes) and I just dont know what is going to happen...

Sending tons of calming vibes to help you through this period. So glad to hear that the two of you are getting out and having fun.

Thanks, girl! It was fun going out for dinner last night and Tim gave me a beautiful card he had made We werent gone too long...B hasnt been feeling well, so Ive been sticking pretty close to him...

bm.. honestly, it sounds like Michelle has no plans to do anything to help herself and no desire to do any talking. You'd have better luck reasoning with your houseplants. I would say no more, lock up the liquor and computer, and wait out the next month until move out day. I know that sounds heartless, but you can't help anyone who doesn't want to be helped. You're expending your own emotional energy for nothing.... and probably getting frustrated.. I know I would be. Save your energy for other things.
If the thought of being homeless is not motivating her, that is HER issue, not yours. You have gone above and beyond and SHE is the one choosing to not make any changes.

Happy anniversary...and hoping B is better soon....
Don't fall into guilt when you set your house guests free...it isn't your fault they are homeless...April made a very strong point! Long term behavior is often hard, if not impossible to change...they could be an endless . bottomless pit...you don't have the resources to fill that hole....no one does:(
You are an Angel to help this far!

Hi, bm - I've been reading through and everyone has given such sound advice

I'm just wanting to ditto April's last comment about long term behaviour, and Kim's comment about homelessness will be *Michelle's* issue. Your kind heart will hurt and feel bad when it happens, but if I was the betting type, I'd say you better plan on that outcome. -- and maybe start toughening yourself for it.

You can research homeless shelters and give them a printout, so they know you mean business. Even if they must move to yet another county to find one -- they have no jobs, no house, no apartment, etc. to keep them in your county.

In fact, if they found a homeless shelter, there are usually social services available for those that seek them.

You are being a blessing to them now, but stand firm.

Glad to hear the update, BM...and happy anniversary and hope you are not having the summer from Hell :). Your kind offer...and patience!...looks like it is just postponing the inevitable for this couple. Often people with chronic situations like this have undiagnosed/treated mental illness or substance/compulsion issues. They really need professional help. But you are still incredibly kind! It appears that they really were not looking for a place to redo their lives, just to exist in the same way that they have been. Just want to support you to keep your spirits up!

Echoing the comments about professional help and possible mental illness... I also want to add that people in this situation often see themselves as victims in life, as a way to rationalize not being able to change things and justify their sense of entitlement for having been wronged somehow. So don't be surprised if they turn on you when you draw the line and accuse you of being part of the reason they can't get anywhere. None of this is your fault, and the only people who can change their situation is THEM.

Hey there BM, I just wanted to say that I've been thinking about you all week. Keep strong! x

Thanks, girl! LOVE your website, btw