Yes, what Angie said ! I haven't been around for 2 weeks so I have no idea what you said or didn't say. This I know ; we are ALL "ineloquent" at one point or another. OK, maybe not Maya Angelou. : ) But certainly, everyone else.

I am already looking forward to you coming back.

I really don't want to revive other threads. But it was two things.
One feeling I had to defend my like of items that are popular in the fashion press, but at the same time not necessarily liking the things that are popular on the forum. I know I'm different. EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. But I feel on here, I should not have to defend my love of fashion.
Also a lot was the Pretty thread. I used to be obese. I was invisible, truly. I was called Sir at Denny's. When I saw people that were conventionally attractive and height weight proportionate (to steal a phrase from online dating) rail against pretty. Basically I was like this

http://groupthink.jezebel.com/.....1570383740

Now that that I'm not longer fat. I see the difference in my life. I know what privilege I have. I am no longer ignored.
I upgraded my camera to take prettier pictures. I started taking outfit pictures in outdoor settings because I thought they were prettier. But yeah, liking pretty somehow makes me a weaker, lesser person. Anna Wintour said something how about fashion is seen as a weaker industry because it is feminine, but in reality it's a billion plus industry.

AG, please don't take this wrong, but I think you may be interpreting those threads in ways that are more hurtful to you than intended.

I do t think anyone wants you to defend your style. Your style gets a lot of positive feedback, as does your opinion on others' styles. And I certainly don't think anyone was trying to get you to like anything the forum self-styled lemmings do. We've all said many times how much we enjoy your individuality.

As for the pretty thread, I think it hit a nerve with a lot of people for different reasons. I really don't think anyone would say that liking pretty makes you a lesser person. (Just like it doesn't make me a better person for it not being a word I use for myself. It's not that easy!) I'm not sure why you would feel attacked there, but please, don't think about it twice. I know 100% it was not meant as a stab at anyone personally.

I know the forum is your place to unwind, so letting it wash over you more might give you more peace?

I will miss your WIW if you leave!!!

Hi Anna,

I do understand your perspective and will miss your originality, intellect, and wit.

Anna, I didn't get a chance to post in the pretty thread, but I get where you're coming from. Being conventionally pretty is a strong currency in our society, and not everyone even has the option of consciously opting out.

Anna, you make a very valid point regarding the privilege associated with pretty and I wish you had added it to the original thread (unless I missed it). MaryK has shared similar thoughts on the forum before.

Oh, the pretty thread. I stopped reading it. I got a bit overwhelmed, actually. (It's up to a hundred and eighty replies now, I see). It's clearly a touchy subject.

I'm not going to go back to the thread and find out what you wrote, but I do really, truly value your honesty and forthright answers. And your style is way cool.

Come back soon.

Now I'm feeling a little uncomfortable. I feel like there is nowhere else besides this forum where I can raise issues like the pretty thread and discuss them intelligently with others who are genuinely interested. I raised the question for myself, and I can only control my own words and reactions. It was not intended to be a hurtful topic at all.

As far as the fashion thread it is clear to me that most everyone here worships and admires your style, and those who don't want to copy it certainly respect it. You know I'm an admirer... That's my perspective anyway.

Anna, I don't know you well and so was looking to find a photo of you to see what you were talking about not being pretty and/or having to defend your choices (since I don't recall having that impression) ... can I just suggest that you do as I did, do a forum-search on your username and just scan through the results ... I think you will find a totally different view of how you are perceived on the forum than what you are feeling right now

Just a suggestion, for what it is worth!

(alaskagirl - my opinion is if we can't have conversations about some of these "fashion-philosophical" questions on the forum then its value is really diminished - I hope you will not be discouraged from raising thought-provoking topics).

I don't think there's a single forum member who isn't invested in their appearance or who would argue that appearance doesn't have currency. Those people are on another forum! Even people who reject conventional attractiveness to an extreme degree are quite self-aware/analytical about it, I find (I am thinking of the poster who gained a lot of weight and shaved her head).
I believe the discussion was not around rejecting being attractive, stylish, presentable etc but around the word pretty and people have a lot of different reactions to that. Annagybe, you yourself posted a comment to the effect that "pretty" doesn't register with you. And I don't think of your very well-developed style as "pretty" most days - although you have rocked some very "pretty" looks, and are in fact a beautiful woman.
Honestly, I wonder if you are taking both discussions a bit too personally? I just didn't see it as people rejecting positve self-presentation or ignoring the priviledge inherit in that. And I don't see anyone demanding an explanation as to why you don't wear lemming items.

I spoke too soon. I need more time away. I can't play nice.

Anna, I have yet to see you write anything that makes me think you "can't play nice". You are never unkind. And the opinions you have come from real experiences. We all have different experiences, and different struggles. I always like to hear the perspectives of others!

(Una, there's nothing wrong with starting threads that generate a lot of discussion! You never come off as hurtful).

Anna, what does "play nice" mean? And is it absolutely necessary? You're a key character around here, because you push beyond average fashion. Maybe edgy communication style is good, too.

I'm arguably the least fashionable person on the forum. Yet I keep reading, primarily for the "fashion-philosophical" threads. That's just one facet of YLF; many members who don't fancy such discussions just skip them.

In the past, I've noticed that you sometimes get personal in meta threads. Maybe some topics are just too raw, too recent for you to feel like tossing ideas around? In certain threads, a lot of things are going to be strongly worded in ways that represent the writer's own development, without meaning in any way to exclude other views or experiences.

You don't have to play in those sandboxes if you don't like the toys shared there. Most of YLF is fashion-application, where you're a star. A pretty one at that. So, for sure, meet your needs for space. But maybe you can do that within the forum?

Anna, I'm really sorry you're feeling so bad. I get it. I do. I never commented in Una's pretty thread, even though I've been following it from the beginning, and she posed such an interesting question. I had so many thoughts and reactions that each time I started to draft my own response, it got longer and longer until, finally, I didn't have the wherewithal to get it together. And by that point, I really didn't think anyone wanted to read what would have become a fairly pedantic essay-thing.

Pretty as a concept is *loaded*. Because, ultimately, you're right: I believe much of it is due to privilege or lack thereof and how we use language. I believe we look at it through a variety of socio-cultural lenses that include things like body image, relationships with our mothers *and* our fathers (or other caretakers), location we hail from (for example, just in the US, the NY metro area vs. the American South - in general, there's typically a different emphasis on pretty), education, age, race, ethnicity, class, and even political bent. And also, what we inherently look like and our experiences of romantic/sexual relationships.

I can imagine that there were a few (or more than a few) responses that made you feel crappy. If I weren't as inured to it as I am now, I would be feeling crappy, too. For what it's worth - and I'm not trying to make excuses or diminish how you feel - lots of people aren't used to scrutinizing their own reactions in these ways.

It would be pretty boring if we were all exactly the same. It wouldn't be the same here without you and your lovely, smart different-ness. Of course, you know what's best for you, and you should do whatever you need to, but I hope you'll be able to come back. xoxo