Thanks for all the advice ladies! I do tight line, but struggle like Una with 'wet eyes' and also somewhat oily eyes, which is wierd because they feel dry. Anyway, my beloved UD kohl liner migrates to my lower lids, so will have to try Fluidline and Kat von D. Love her contour palette, but that's another post

Putting the LM counter on my to do list next time I am in New York.

I do this technique, but with pencils. I have many brands (and many colors) including Chanel LeStylo, Marc Jabobs gel pen, Trish McEvoy gel pencil, Burberry Kohl liner (my favorite for tight lining with black). Some require a sharpener, some are twist up styles.

I prefer the pencils to using a product with a separate brush.

I tried doing this yesterday for the first time. I used a Rimmel Kohl pencil in black and lined my top water line, and then finished with a shimmery light eyeshadow and black mascara. perfect for daytime! As a matter of fact someone said "I don't know what you did today but your eyes look amazing" so this technique is a keeper. I don't line my bottom waterline though because it makes my eyes look smaller. Thanks for the tip!

Thanks for your tip Angie! It tried it yesterday and it worked! The result with a brush is different than pencil liner: more subtle, but deeper. I used a small Aveda flat slanted brush and a regular compact eye shadow.

I also wear contact lenses, but it didn't bother me. I applied to the inside of the waterline but also at the base of my upper lashes and between the lashes. That is what makes a big difference I think. The product I had applied directly onto the top waterline tended to migrate to the bottom waterline a little (but since I had used a lighter brown, the result wasn't too dramatic).

Here is another trick: line your bottom waterline with white, nude or shiny silver pencil. But just the waterline. You may then apply some eye shadow right underneath the lash line, with a smaller brush, and using the medium-light shades from your palette (but nothing shiny!). It will open up your eyes.

Another trick is to apply a soft layer of eye shadow lower under the eye. Here is how: if you laugh, see how the bottom of your eyes bulge a little. Right under that bulge, apply light (but not metallic, not shiny) eye shadow and connect to the top at the eye corner. Eye shadow must be one or two tones darker than the brightest, lightest shade of your palette. It will create the illusion of a faint shadow there and make your eyes seem bigger.

I like the tips from this lady: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3-rYlkdXzA