Good explanations and not sure mine will add anything, but I think of it this way. When you wear something ironically, you're saying "I wouldn't actually wear this item in a serious way." It depends on there being people somewhere who *do* (or once did) wear such a thing seriously.

Remember the movie "Reality Bites"? The Janeane Garofalo character carried a 70s lunchbox -- maybe Partridge Family or Brady Bunch -- as her handbag. She wasn't actually saying "I worship family bands of the 70s" but "I am hip enough to find it funny that people once worshiped these icons."

Interestingly, that same movie had a scene in which a character explained irony by saying, "It's when the actual meaning is the complete opposite of the literal meaning."

Does that help, Julie?

(BTW -- "dough ball" -- LOL)

Check out the hipster Olympics videos on youtube. A much better explanation than the slide show, I think.

Just had to high-five Stringy for calling out the frequent misuse of words. At work I help produce a weekly bulletin analyzing the writing the organization produces each week, and the phrase "screams elegance" will be addressed in a future issue.

Really interesting thread. I think some of the descriptions above are really good and explain "ironic style" well, like Jonesy's. I do think far too many "hipsters" try too hard for this "style" though, thus making it much less original. Sometimes I see things I appreciate but they are usually more subtle and less in your face "ironic."

hipster olympics --so entertaining.

Interesting thread, Julie! I´m a very ironic person and I love to put a little irony in my style. Wearing something that I´d never wear in a serious way, as April put it, describes it best. Ironic can be:
Men´s clothing: A suit with a waist coat and maybe even a tie is definitely a bit ironic on a curvy woman
Camouflage: I know most YLFers are highly sensitive about it, but I wear a fluffy blouse with a bow in camouflage - something I´d never wear seriously.
Quotations of former decades: when I wear items from the 80s: you know, history repeats itself, first time a tragedy, second time it´s irony Or 70s: can anybody wear a bell bottom jeans without a wink in the eye.
Sometimes irony just says I´m being playful with clothes, I don´t take it too serious...
Hope that helped a little bit!!
Thanks for bringing up this interesting topic!!

Good description, Jonesy: "I think of it as a way to describe a look that is simultaneously "winking at" or gently mocking a particular style while also sporting it."

When I've kept company with people who dress like this, and they have done it for a long time, it seems like their clothes become like props, though...costumey. And it feels like they are trapped in a character on a movie set that isn't happening any more.

Betsy Johnson was a guest judge on Project Runway last night. She has such a magnetic presence. But I question whether the ironic dressing is doing her any favors. She has become her own "brand", though.

Stringy - I totally get what you're saying. The thing is, as a working copywriter, I might choose to use the phrase "screams elegance" if I was trying to make a certain point. I might be trying to say that the type of elegance I'm writing about is not traditional, white glove, pinky out kind of elegance, but rather a modern kind of in your face elegance (perhaps even an "ironic" elegance!)

When you write in or about things to do with the creative fields (fashion, music, movies, design, toys, fun products), you often seek ways to push the boundaries - and play with language. So juxtaposing two seemingly opposite words might create the image I was going for. Does that make sense?

Of course, there is a whole lot of bad writing out there (including mine!) so I do understand what you're saying. But when I write copy I think very carefully about every single word ... and then I am edited by brand managers, producers, marketing people, and the guy who changes the toner in the copy machine. Often the end result has been so monkeyed with it leaves me quietly screaming while smiling at my editor and praying they hire me again.

Sorry. End of copywriter rant!

Hmmm, so would woman in her mid-60's wearing a Hello Kitty tee look ironic or just clueless?

So, Joy - do you have anyone in mind for the Hello Kitty irony?

So Joy and I are on the same wavelength. To what extent is style "ironic", or just poor style? With fashion being so subjective, I guess there is no definitive answer.

Will someone please show me a links of Brooklyn hipsters. I did a search but still don't have a clear picture in my head. In fact - I don't even know what a hipster is :0(. Never heard of the term. Can a lass be a hipster?

The word 'irony' is undergoing a change (if I were a prescriptive grammarian, I'd say "is being misused a lot"). I can't fathom how the sentence "I am an ironic person" could make any sense in the traditional meaning of the word 'ironic'. I googled the phrase, and as far as I can tell, these days saying that you're an ironic person means either that you're a sarcastic person, or perhaps a straight talking person - the implication being that you're not engaging in courtesy games to save other people's face. It will be interesting to see what the meaning of the word is in a couple of decades (don't even get me started on the word 'decimate').

Thank you, Katja for your remarks about the use and misuse of the word "ironic". I wouldn't consider Betsey Johnson's style ironic. Wacky, yes; ironic, no.

Tarzy, I can absolutely see where you're coming from. Your potential usage of it as a contrast seems a lot more thoughtful than how I've seen it done. I'm sure your writing is always great

I had in mind a particular handful of magazines that we get here in Australia, and they use the phrase at least twice per issue! The mags are all published by the same company, so I'm guessing they're either sharing a writer or as you suggest, someone's got the authority to mess with the original copy. Maybe an editor has just fallen in love with it and is over-applying it after a successful first usage...

Michelle, you might have to include Tarzy's example in your piece as an example of when to use the phrase, and mine as an example of how not to do it

I think that part of ironic style is simply thumbing your nose at fashion. It's saying "I realize this will be seen as unflattering, but I'm too cool to care".

angie,

check out this youtube link. it's a parody of the hipster class (yes girls can be hipsters too, but i think it's most obvious with guys), but you'll get the idea.

a caricature of a columbia hipster illustrates the ironic wearing of a watch. irony=the hipster has no need to be anywhere at anytime so the watch is entirely superfluous. further irony, the watch doesn't work.

common examples of hipster gear are illustrated here.

Thank you, bj1111! You are a star! Hipsters are cool bloke folks. Quite young too I see. We have loads of hipsters in my neck of the Seattle woods - along with goth and grungy beauties. Love it all :0)

Oh Angie, you need to get yourself a copy of the hipster handbook. I'd loan you mine but I already loaned it to that friend who I mentioned in the "tearing up" thread and he never returned it...

And yes you have seen lots of hipsters! I took you to Williamsburg for crying out loud.

Ironic style definitely has a snarky, sarcastic undertone to it, which is probably why it is a much more youth-oriented style. I think that's why the gramma in the Hello Kitty shirt just wouldn't have the same effect.

I hate to admit it but Urban Outfitters definitely has a hipster vibe to it, and plenty of ironic clothing to boot.

There are definitely older hipsters like Lou Reed. But mostly I think of it as something for college kids. Even at 26 I feel a little too old for it. Although I certainly have the snarky personality for it.

I guess my problem with ironic style is that it expects knowledge on behalf of the audience or requires more thought than I'm really willing to give to give. Do I really want to wear something which will look ironic to five percent of the population but confuse the rest. I think I may stick with wearing fashionable, well fitting clothes which suit my personality.

Thank you so much for your responses.

Phoebe your outfits sound killer.

i think wearers of ironic clothing may derive further delight from other NOT getting it.

bj, without a doubt you are right LOL.

I'm the absolute polar opposite of a hipster :0) but that suits me fine.

Exactly right, bj. It's almost like a signal. The ones who get it are the only ones who are worth your time.

When I wanted a pair of thick black glasses in high school, my mom couldn't figure out why I wanted to look like an old man or Buddy Holly. I got a kick out of it.

Maya- it's interesting that you consider yourself too old for hipster style, but still carry your Chococat bag- and see yourself doing that for a long time.

It's not that interesting really. It's a choice, as I mentioned, like anything else.

As I said in the other thread, I don't see Hello Kitty/Sanrio as being a child's thing. Have you ever been to the Sanrio store in Times Square? There are more adults than there are kids (adults who are not just parents, btw). One of my good friends who is Japanese has virtually her entire house decked out in Sanrio. By "her" I mean her parents. It's cultural as well. As I said, I don't expect everyone to understand, and that's okay. They don't have to.

I feel too old for ironic style because the rebellious, snarky element just doesn't appeal to me anymore. It did when I was a teen and in my early 20's, when it was fun to giggle at grownups who just didn't get it, and be able to identify with those who did. But I don't really want to identify with those people anymore. Nothing wrong with it. I have just outgrown it.

Huh, I have a Hello Kitty t-shirt that is, I suppose, a parody of Kiss' "Rock and Roll Over" album cover. I never thought it was ironic, just kind of funny and/or cute. Hope I'm not being a fashion looser at 40! (I probably am, but hey, I like it.)

More interesting thoughts.

Taking Maya's example of the black thick rimmed glasses, does this item lose it's irony as it gains popularity amongst a subsection of society. At what point does it become less about irony and more about fitting in.

I used to work at a Sanrio store! Much of the merchandise is not geared toward children- contact lens cases, $100 necklaces, purse organizers, etc. I think a lot of young adults are so fond of Hello Kitty because they grew up with it, so it's iconic to them. I grew up in a time when Sanrio characters were not very popular in the US yet, but in a place that was predominantly Asian immigrants- so they brought it with them. It was certainly cultural in that time/place, but the Caucasians caught on. I remember begging my mom to take us to the hello Kitty store on Saturdays. I have my share of Sanrio character items still (a Keroppi pill box is always in my purse), so I understand. The Little Twin Stars *always* make me think of my sister- because they were her favorites. I look for their items because of that. I just think it's interesting that you choose to hold onto that one item, even though you refuse the look as a whole.

Personally, I find "ironic" style a fringe youth-driven trend similar to say the punk trend in the 80's and the goth trend in the 90's. It starts off fringe, never becomes totally mainstream (although some elements are incorporated) and loses its luster as it becomes more popular. Elements of "ironic" style are heavily used by hipsters but not ever hipster dresses ironically.

Julie, to your point, I think it already has become about fitting in at this point. The trendsetters (dare I say Maya might have been one since she was right at the epicenter!) are probably moving on! I see that even the young banker types on Wall Street are wearing the buddy holly glasses now.

Wow Khris. Talk about dream jobs...

I don't really wear Sanrio ironically. I guess that's the difference. I'm just genuinely crazed! Taylor has been the recipient of my HK Paris stationery. I am also a big fan of Deery Lou and recently made my mom a new Christmas stocking decked out in Deery Lou stickers.

That's right Shana! I had my black glasses as a senior in high school, which was 2001-2002. My history teacher used to say I looked "very professorial" and referred to them as my professor glasses. By YLF standards they were way too huge on my face and much too dark and heavy!

To answer your question, Julie, I think by the time the mainstream crowds catch on, most of the hipsters have moved on to something new anyway. Not necessarily even because they have become mainstream, but just because they're always on to something new.