Also, Lisa, FWIW, I've just been doing a massive book and papers edit and it might be similar to what you are facing with clothing. We had TOO MANY BOOKS and it is really hard for us to get rid of them, and I hadn't properly sorted my files or photos in 10 years and had so much I couldn't even remember and on and on. It felt truly overwhelming and I put it off for months and could barely think about it. That's because, just like CJ says about clothes, books and papers and photos are identity, history, difficult and happy memories...they are so much more than what they are.

In the end, I tackled it room by room, ending with the papers/ files in my study. In the end, we only got rid of about five or six boxes of books and our shelves are still quite full (but clean, and with a bit of empty space available) and I reorganized everything so I know where it is, and that alone was a huge relief. So you might find that something like that happens for you as well.

wow - kkards, you're a retail planner? Interesting ! Who do you work for?

Others, thank you for all of your advice here. There is a lot to unpack, so to speak. Is there something else going on here? And why edit summer right now? Perhaps, but Mr L and I have been doing a major house decluttering project this month - MAJOR - and this is kind of part of it. I hope to sell as much of what I don't want in my closet as makes sense.....we are having the mother of all garage/yard sales in September.

Anyways - sitting down and figuring out how and where my time is spent is a good starting point, and I wouldn't have thought of it. And as to everything being a 9 or 10? I'm glad some of you "got" what I meant by that. Of course very few pieces stay 10's after a lot of wear, but I'd to think that even the grey casual t-shirt is a 10 in its own right - other wise why buy it?

Looking forward to getting started on this today!!

Wow Lisa ,what good and heartfelt advice your post has prompted.l always feel when reading any ofyour posts that this “style thing “is stressful for you.I wonder why that is?I hesitate to start attempting some COD psychology over the internet but I do feel that for a lot of women their wardrobe and body image affects and reflects much deeper emotional issues than they would acknowledge.ln the end it’s only clothes,you have enough and you are lucky enough to be able to choose what you wear each day and put it on your body yourself without help.I m not trying to make you feel guilty but rather show you the other side of abundance if you like.We in the west can over think this stuff.l know that it’s a style forum and discussions like this are par for the course but really we are so lucky aren’t we?I hope that you can find a way to enjoy your wardrobe and curating it without it causing you any undue distress .

lisap...i'd rarther not say who i work for, but lets just say, it's not a fashion company, but it is a major US national retailer....and one of the major projects we've been working thru for the last 2 years is the issue of breadth and depth...and how to define our stratagies in this changing retail environment

Enjoying this post!

Agree numbers are just numbers. A pint wot be to keep what you love even if there’s more of it than you want. I actually have trouble with the “ hold it up and make an instant decision “ approach , because I am very proportion- sensitive and fit sensitive, so the tryons are what reveal to me how something works. But, I CAN tell there are items I’m not wearing regularly in the season they’re meant for, so I t helps me to target a couple of items I “ need to wear” each week to say, is this something great I’ve just kinda forgotten about, or is it a second- stringer I “ like” / “ don’t hate” but now can see I don’t need ( don’t LOVE and is not an outfit- completer. )

All my clothes are fitting differently now so I’m going through a big edit. Found it easier to cull pants than tops— I have too many tops to wear them all as regularly as I’d like. So one thing that helps me is versatility assessment. If a top is limited versatility but goes with a GREAT outfit that I want to repeat often or have available for certain occasions, that’s one thing. But if the outfit it “belongs to” us a look I’m not reaching for or am shifting away from style- wise, I can maybe pry it out of my hoarding hands.
In fact your post is giving me some more encouragement to look more critically at several items I’ve felt guilty about giving up!

Everyone is different and what works for some it does not work for other. For me - numbers do matter a lot. But I am very analytical, love planing and budgeting and everything that has something to do with numbers. So I did come up with the system that works for me. I have strict numbers for each category. And it helps me a lot. So for example if I say 10 dresses is my maximum, and if I really love all 10 dresses that I have, I will not look at dresses at all. And If I really want to get a new dress, then 1 dress has to go and I have to be damn sure that I really like it more then the one I already have.

oh suz....don't even get me going on books....

Hi Lisa- I share your frustration as I am in the same place with my spring/summer wardrobe. I very been feeling overwhelmed about the idea of addressing it.

Jussie's post and everyone's wonderful replies really got me thinking. I have decided to take a different approach to sorting out my spring/summer wardrobe. As several who have posted have recommended I have decided to take an outfit approach to the numbers rather than a set item number approach. For some reason this seems less overwhelming to me.

As Angie said I think the numbers are very personal. I share your goal of a limited wardrobe so being thoughtful about what I end up with is important to me.

My goal is to have outfits that are 9/10's. Some items will likely just be completers that aren't in and of themselves 9/10's. I am going to start with my 9/10 items and build the outfit with them pulling less loved completer items as needed. As I too am frequent wear advocate my goal is to use an item in @ least 2 and preferable more outfits. If an item is a basic that I use in multiple outfits I will keep any duplicates that I have.

Hope that helps. I have just started this process. I will let you know how it goes.

.

In the midst of a smiliar quest. I recently donated three bags of clothes, shoes & accessories but have much more to sort through and want to do it thoughtfuly.
I don’t mind a large wardrobe for myself but it’s become stressful because it’s not manageable at this point. Too many items stored in too many spots. I hope to alleviate that and I’d also like to become a less emotionally driven shopper. I want to shop for a need or enjoyment but not to fill emotional voids. That’s my big issue.
Fingers crossed for us both!

Lisa, I was glad to hear someone stick up for the lowly grey tee. It’s one of my favorite wardrobe items. I don’t have any advice. I clear out my closet when I get in a certain mood, usually in the winter, and go strictly from emotion. This item annoyed me last time - “begone with you!”

Good luck with the declutter!
As others have said, it’s mostly about being able to fit everything into the space you have.

I love the concept of 10s. As Jenn mentioned wisely upthread, I use it more as a buying tool than a culling tool. (But then again, don’t we all think we’re buying 10s when we’re buying new things?)

I think another good question to ask yourself (when buying) is: “if this IS a 10, how long will it stay a 10?”. This might prevent you from purchasing overly trendy items. (Although as Angie said, everything goes and one-season trends don’t really exist anymore.)

Thank you for posting this. It’s an issue I struggle with, but from a different point of view in that I’m more a maximalist, which I accept. But wardrobe orphans make me anxious. So I walk a delicate balance. Here is what I have had to do:

-Figure out what my capsules are and how big the need to be
-Figure out the wardrobe essentials for each capsule - the pieces that make other pieces work. Essential because I love patterns but not pattern mixing
-Keep things a manageable number in my limited storage space
-Leave room for emotional purchases - things I don’t need but fall in love with. (One in one out is helpful with this.)
-Donate orphan clothes rather than sell - I have a charity I like a lot that has a donation box in my building. (I had my wedding reception in their used bookstore. ) They recycle the cloth of the clothes they can’t sell. Trying to sell the clothes has proven not worth the time and effort here in NYC for various reasons I don’t need to bore you with
-Got better at identifying why some pieces are orphans. Participating here has been crucial in this area

These have not been perfect strategies, but my wardrobe feels more manageable now because I have fewer orphans than last year. I agree with others that the number, whatever it is, has to feel right to you. There is no Platonic ideal number that works for everyone. The number of items should be working for you, not causing anxiety.

This is a brilliant post and I will read every single comment, but I prefer to respond before I read the comments so that I don't get distracted.

I don't personally think numbers matter at all and this is coming from someone that counts obsessively. I count for a very specific reason. If I don't take the time to count I have no direct measure of what I truly do own. Simply saying I know how many black slacks I own does not work for me. It is always an underestimate (by a lot).

It is unrealistic to expect every single item in your wardrobe to be a 9 or a 10. I'm not even sure what that means to be honest. Perhaps I will be enlightened when I read the comments.

I wonder if you don't already have a great wardrobe lurking in your closet. Perhaps you have items that are fabulous, but are lost. As you weed through your spring/summer wardrobe, you may find those forgotten jewels.

I have a major problem with duplication. It is my Achilles heel. Right now I am allowing myself two duplicates. That seems to be around the right number for me and doesn't result in too much splitting of wears.

As always, Lisa P, your posts stimulate my brain and make me really think. Thank you.

I'm currently in the middle of a Konmari-style wardrobe clean out. I am not about to count how many items I have. Konmari is not an exercise in minimalism.

For me the goal is to have space in my closet and in my drawers. As I've learned that is what makes me happy, serene, peaceful -- opening a drawer and finding it half or 3/4 full, all folded nicely like a store display. Or seeing my clothes hanging on the rods with room to breathe between them, lined up from darkest/heaviest to lightest.

I started with all my drawers first and have completed that part of the project. Hanging items are next. The Konmari process is simple: you take EVERYTHING in a category out and put it in a pile on the bed. Then you pick up and hold each item, one by one, and listen to what your heart says. If it says you love it, you keep it.

But "love" doesn't necessarily mean it's an 8 or 10 -- you can love a piece just because it's practical, a workhorse that ties your wardrobe together, or it's just super comfy. The point is you feel positive emotions when you hold the item in your hand -- for whatever reason. Anything you feel negative about -- for whatever the reason -- goes in the donate pile. I.e., that beautiful blouse that creates too much fussy static cling ... bye bye.

I had quite a few items that I do love, but currently just don't fit at the moment. So in the next phase of the process, I folded all these items nice and neatly and tucked them into storage. I did not save items that were more than a size too small. I thanked them for their service and put them in the donate bag. There's really not much in storage, so that's good.

I discovered in the process that I love having options. For example, in my jeans drawer, I love having one white pair, one black, one gray, one faded denim, one dark wash. And yet I also discovered that I don't like tee shirts in bright colors. Don't ask me why, it just is. I prefer tees in neutrals -- black & navy get the most wear, then white, then olive, then grey.

Next up is hanging clothes. I did do an initial pass, without taking everything out of the closet. But then got stuck realizing it really does help to take everything out, and go through each item one by one for the "spark joy" check. I'll be doing that in the next few days. In the meantime, I did move my formal wear capsule and my coats into the guest bedroom temporarily. This made a lot of room in my closet. I've been living with it like that a few days and realize how much it makes me happy, to have rod space to spread out my clothes. Coats and formal wear may remain in the guest bedroom closet (it's not filling the entire closet, just half of it) or may move back in once I Konmari, space pending.

The goal isn't a specific number. But it is having space in there for my clothes to hang happily, breathe and rest.

While I'm going through this exercise I am making a list of items I need. They include long sleeve tees (I realized I hated ALL but two of the ones I own -- and yet this is a category I really need) and new underwear. Whereas also noting things I thought I needed, but really don't. More coats... toppers... formal wear.... loungewear.... tee shirts... don't need! I've got plenty already.

LISA- there is so much wisdom in all the posts from your YLF Friends above.
I just figured I would add my meager 2 cents that is not even worth that;-)
When I started looking at YLF posts, I started to think numbers mattered. Then one day after reading one of the posts ( I think JUSSIE ‘s but I can’t swear to it) I went to my closet and armoire ( except for outerwear these 2 hold my entire wardrobe ) and I began counting- freaked - then started yanking. But as I yanked I didn’t feel better- I actually felt worse. I loved the clothes. I wear the clothes ( true that my wool blazers are currently sitting while it is a raging 92 degrees but dud! It won’t be 92 forever- even if I truly believe in global warming).
Anyway- I put the stuff back- took a deep breathe and suggested to myself the following actions:
1- realize people who post have great advice, tips, flair and style. But I need to take that info and decide if it applies to me. Sometimes I get caught up in posts, forums, blogs and start to lose sight of me. Super small wardrobe is not my cup of tea, but then neither is a huge wardrobe. Like baby bear- I currently think it is just right.
2-when buying in the future just use a little more thought about what and why I am buying. Your 9-10 value is probably a 7-10 value for me and I am content with that. My color palette is tight and I am ok with that too.
3-if I love it- for Gosh sakes keep it, wear it and enjoy it.if it is getting worn out, stained etc- decide if it needs to be replaced or just be happy with the lovely wearings it gave me and enjoy rest of wardrobe. Nod to CINDY here.
4-duplicates is NOT as dirty word. For me it can be a continuum from
“ oh boy am I glad I don’t have to do laundry to wear this look” to “ ok so maybe having all those white shirts from when I worked might be splitting wears now but I know if I get rid of them I will spill coffee and be pissed”
5- it is possible to cull myself into a problem. So now I put things in a bag on the closet floor and wait a month. That works for me.
6- I know I like to hold onto some things ( not all things) sometimes for wayyyyy longer than I should. But since I have a current spot for it, it is not hurting anyone and in the grand scheme of things it is not an earth shattering “problem”......... I am currently ok with it.

LISA- since I started on this site, you have been one I consistently follow for your positive, common sense down to earth posts. You are honest in assessments and advice for self and others. I think all you need is to take a deep breath, stop counting, cut yourself some slack on the 1-10 scale and just enjoy your things........ yeah I know it’s baseball season but go put on a hockey jersey....and smile!

I'm working on an overall cull these days -- clothes, books, holiday ornaments, the scary utensil drawers in my kitchen, you name it.

I'm not into counting, or sock cherishing.

I think the main thing about stuff in general is: do I have a good place to put it, and will I find it and use it?

And that of course applies to clothing as well as magic garlic peelers etc. However, most of those other objects don't have all the baggage and perceived cultural significance that clothes do.

I do think in clothes culling, it's best to put aside the guilt /insecurity voices that say: "There's nothing wrong with it," "It's not worn out," "I paid a lot for it and I only wore it one time," "It looked better when I was a different age / weight," and so on.

For me, the more important questions are:

• Do I still like it
• Does it project how I want to look now?
• Do I have room in my closet for it?

Great questions, UmmLila.

Inspired by your post, LisaP, I just went and did a pre-move edit. It took about 2 hours. There might be more to cull from the gear shelves, but in looking at clothes and footwear, I removed 30 items for reasons of fit, style, wear (or the lack of wear!) I also put about 10 things into a holding zone -- I don't intend to bring them with me on the move.

Then I checked and discovered that I have bought 26 items this year. My purchases of footwear were heavy -- I needed to replace most of my summer footwear. I also bought more dresses than usual because they are available and I like them.

Regardless, it seems as if 130-145 pieces, including bags, footwear, coats, toppers, knits, tops, pants, skirts, dresses, but not including undies or gear is roughly the right sized wardrobe for me in my current climate. Without trying consciously to do so, I've kept to this number for 3 years now. It's hardly minimal, but neither is it extremely large, I think, considering my extremes of weather and my varied activities. How I'll fare in my new climate will be another a new adventure!

Suz, your climate is similar to mine, and we share a similar work-from-home portion of our lifestyles. I have zero need for formal/party/going-out clothes though. Your numbers are interesting to me in that 130-150 pieces is less than half of what I own (I'm guessing), yet your wardrobe never strikes me as small. But then I realized - it's all perception, isn't it?

I'm vowing to start tracking purchases in detail , and to get the edit started today . Of course I get all pumped up to do it, and then the temp goes back up to 30C and the house is hot. Plus - work tomorrow Anyways - I'm holding myself accountable, and will be posting some numbers very soon of what I kept and what I am ditching.

Lisa - I did the crazy kitchen utensil drawer clean out last week, and tossed out 3 wine openers, a duplicate can opener, more wooden spoons and silicone spatulas than any amateur cook could possibly use, and about 50 linen tea towels. Ugh. Now I have that mostly empty drawer with 4 things rattling around in it and I LOVE IT. I can't believe the sheer weight of the crap I got rid of too! In terms of clothes, I agree in letting go of emotional attachment (I have little , so I'm ok there with my cold little heart) and I like your 3 questions. I too am not into sock cherishing . I'm lucky if I can find matching pairs, never mind actually liking them.

OMG, the crazy kitchen utensil drawer!! I still have to do that before the move...oy....

Lisa, I do think it's perception -- perspective is all. Coming from a place of 20 clothing items or so, my current wardrobe can at times feel large and even "self-indulgent" to me. Especially when Mr. Suz teases me about my footwear collection. I just filled two big bags of shoes and boots that I hope to bring on our move and am not sure how we will transport!

But then I realize I wear almost everything (even the best planned closets have a few duds!) and I enjoy my nice things, and wow, does it ever feel good to know I don't have to fly into a panic if I get invited to this or that kind of event. (Special occasions or even dates with Mr. Suz used to terrify me.) So it's not self-indulgent. It's self-respecting.

That's kind of what I meant when I talked about the numbers being individual, though -- because scaling back from a larger closet might mean you'd feel deprived with a wardrobe the size of mine. It really is a personal thing!

OTOH, if you haven't done a good edit in a while, chances are you really only wear 1/3 of what you own. In which case, getting rid of it will feel great.

I personally feel that I have quite a bit of variety within a fairly tight colour palette. I tend to pass clothes along by their 3rd to 5th season, with some exceptions at either end. (The coat I've had for 8 years and still going strong, the jeans or sweater or summer top that wear out in a season.) I definitely favour my newer items. This is partly because I like a side of "trendy" with my modern classic, and partly just because it's fun to wear new things. I try to keep that in mind when I purchase. The newer it is, the more I'll wear it. Except for key essentials like a navy blazer or jeans, which I constantly wear for years.

I like Jenn's "30 wears" guideline for making purchases, but if I don't make 30 wears from an item before it is time to pass it along, I don't worry about it. I know that wear of that item will balance out with the items I've worn 200 times or more.

I may end up with a slightly smaller wardrobe in a more temperate climate. It will be interesting to see.

It will also be really interesting to see where you get with your own numbers. But mostly with your overall "closet happiness factor." That's the real goal, not a set number.

Suz, where are you moving? Pretty sure if I moved to the beach I'd need a fraction of my clothes. Or at least half.

This thread got me remembering about Project 333 and reading up on it again. I then calculated what I've been wearing the most these past three months and realized it's about 34-35 items (not counting shoes, gear, loungewear and accessories -- just tops, toppers, bottoms and dresses).

I then put together a fall capsule of 33 items just for fun & on paper only. When you think about it, 33*4 seasons is 132 items, though many items can span multiple seasons, so maybe it lands somewhere around 100 items.

Takeaway is that yes 33 items per season is about right size for me, though I am in no way ever going to limit myself to just that. It's too confining, to be that precise. But in practice it's true 33 items each season get the most use, and are probably what I can hold in my head.

Re: sock cherishing the takeaway for me is decide what to keep, rather than what to discard. Knowing you have only so much space -- you still have to prioritize. So you keep the 10s first, the 9's next, the 8's if you have room... and 7 and below's gotta go, if you just don't have room.

I also cherish being able to put items away easily, and on matching hangers. Wire hangers make me hyperventilate.

Our kitchen declutter has held firm for well over a year now -- has it been 18 months? As has linen closet and bathrooms and all the rest. It's the clothes population that seems to need constant attention and pruning.

Great thread. I just want to pick up one point -I think the goal should be outfits that are 10s rather than pieces. Outfits meaning outfits on you, not abstract ensembles (using Angie's distinction). Perhaps by putting together outfits for the different aspects of your life you will more easily be able to get rid of pieces that seem very good but don't actually work in any outfits.

Lisa, I don't know if this would be helpful to you, but I thought I would mention it. A few years ago, a fellow YLFer Lisa (another Lisa!), whom I met in real life, embarked on a wardrobe edit. From what I can remember, she had the same concerns as you. Wardrobe too big, too crowded, not wanting to spend any more money, etc. How she structured her wardrobe edit was like this. First she took everything out from her closet and then put them in some place else which she called her "boutique". Then she picked a small number of things to wear from her boutique, enough say for one week. At the end of the week, she evaluated, edited, and added new pieces. It lasted a whole year.
She documented the whole process on her blog, posted weekly updates:
https://shoppingbrake.com/2014.....nge-rules/
https://shoppingbrake.com/cate.....ge/page/5/
Good luck!
At the end of the day though, we are all allowed a bit of frivolity in life, and maybe fashion has been yours for the last few years, I am sure you had many positive things in your life to compensate for it. So don't concentrate too much on past mistakes, guilt. Focus on the future. Best!

This thread is super, such wise words and I am learning a lot.

My fall/winter stuff is pretty much all 9s and 10s, but "cold" here is a mild winter for a lot of people. We have short, mild winters here, so I don't need a lot for winter.

My spring/summer stuff is a lot of 6s, 7s, and 8s; and a smattering of 9s and 10s. I have to keep some less than amazing things even though I no longer have a gross, messy job in the heat; because there are days when I'm cleaning house or helping chop/split wood, or canning things, and so on. I would hate hate hate to ruin a 9 or 10 on a dirty activity.

I don't think saying "x" # of items makes sense for most women's wardrobes. There are seasons, and there are different activities, and different facets of our lives, and trying to winnow down a 4 season wardrobe for a woman with a career and kids and housework/yardwork and church and whatever else is just unrealistic. I think that the perfect # of garments is different for every single one of us.

Sorry I don't have any actual rules or guidelines for an answer.

I have a hard time finding clothes I like and my standards for a 10 are almost impossible. So, 7-10’s for me. And I get rid of what I am done with but leave time and space for other items I think I “should” get rid of.

I find items’ joy factor can increase. I’m wearing a top that didn’t have much wear with a bottom I purchased to wear in extreme heat. But the extreme heat outfits were so unflattering I hardly wore them even inside my house. The other day I picked out those bottoms and put a not worn for at least a year slightly heavier, longer top over it and suddenly I’ve worn this outfit two weeks in a row.

Lots of great advise in this post. If you put duplicates in a different area perhaps make a list titled “check for the duplicates of this before shopping “. Maybe keep a list or photo of items stored elsewhere in your home for reference. Even a photo of the items laid out Angie travel style would help you keep track of what you own.

Thank you ALL for such varying and interesting advice and commentary. One great thing about these types of posts (at least for me) is that even though I wrote it, it still "forces" me to continue musing on the task of a big edit, and what I want the end result to look like . Some immediate tasks taken from here:

1. photograph my pieces and put them into finds - finally.
2. make lists of what I own and keep it accessible, and review it often.
3.make "do not buy" lists
4. consider a holding zone. I've never been a proponent of this because I don't have much extra space, but as I have been buying less the past few years, I now do have room to store things away while under consideration .

I'm hoping to get to this mammoth task this week - at least start it , anyways. I've already started selling off some bags on-line (the better ones) and will be putting a bunch more into a garage/yard sale we are having in September. Same with a rack of clothes. I've donated SO much over the years and would like to maybe recoup some $$ for once.

Sounds like a huge project, but surely worth it in the end!
You may also find pieces that youll want to remix in ways you haven't before, or discover in the process you have wardrobe orphans that are worth hunting a mate for. So be sure you have time for a try on session!
We're with you

Lisa - something Suz wrote triggered a thought on numbers, I don't know if it would resonate with you. What I've admired about Suz's wardrobe and Brooklyn's as well is the versatility of the pieces they pick. (Ladies correct me if I am wrong) Tops seems to work with many pants, jackets, skirts, dresses scarves, bags same. This would allow fewer pieces to create a much bigger variety in the vein of the Vivienne Files. For ladies who tend favor repeating outfits or find that a specific top works better with a pair of pants or change silhouettes, which would require same, they would need more pieces, because the individual items would be less versatile, in order to be able to create the same number of outfits. Whether more colors, silhouettes, seasons, roles, level of formality, you simply need more to cover the bases.

I can so relate with all you've written LisaP-and so many wise comments!
And wow, Jenn, you are so right: "an item that started as a 10 isn’t necessarily still a 10 after two years and 20 wears. Fabric changes texture, threads come loose, sweaters pill, and sometimes pieces hang differently (...) I think it helps to purchase/alter to start with as high a happiness factor as possible, so when it drops, it drops to a 7 or 8 instead of a 3 or 4"

I don't count my wears (so no idea for when and if achieving the magic nr of 30+) but I have the feeling of that limit somehow and that is also a big factor for unable to be a minimalist.

But as Bijou said so well "Numbers don't count, but hapiness does!" -so we desperately need to boss our wardrobes somehow!!!

Isabel has a great solution:"It took some discipline for me to stop buying things just because I liked the actual item, and instead buy because I like the wardrobe solution."- which can be much more complex, than only missing an item to a random outfit!:-)