Thank you? I guess? lol.

Coming late to this, but I think flattery can be interpreted conventionally (for example, hourglass figure) or unconventionally (personality traits like creativity, boldness). Conventional figure flattery can vary by culture, of course. However, even if a personality trait is a priority, I think most folks keep their body types/features in mind when determining if something is JFE.

Why do I always start to read these awesome threads when I don't have time to finish them or comment properly? Gah!

May do that later... but if not, thanks for all the wisdom and thoughts here... made for great reading, and I will at minimum come back to read more than I did.

You are right about black being favoured by the avant guarde crowd. Also by the "cool" people, punks, etc.
Funny story. A co worker of mine showed up in a head to toe brown outfit. She came to me and said she felt like a reindeer. We agreed that a complete black outfit was "cool" but a complete brown outfit was for the fashion challenged.

Style Fan, totally off-topic but you reminded me of the famous industrial designer Henry Dreyfuss, who always wore a brown suit. This is inherently cool, because there really is nothing cooler than a really good signature look in my opinion. Great if you can pull it off. Unfortunately, I am far too easily bored to do it myself.

This is a really interesting conversation! I think I really resonate with what Shevia said. Like her, I think my #1 goal with style is to be interesting (both to myself and to others). I don't want to look like everyone else, but on the other hand of course I still have certain figure flattery priorities and hangups that I take into account. For example, I always try to minimize the appearance of my extremely short waist, and I don't wear things that make my butt appear even bigger than it already is! On the other hand, I have a nicely defined waist but I don't really care to always define it and I'll wear waist surrendering things with aplomb.

I also have a strong contrarian streak. I cannot tell you how many times I have been told that I should wear more bombshell things, or that I look great in hourglass silhouettes, etc. All that praise/encouragement actually makes me even less likely to want to dress in those silhouettes. (I already am inclined against them because I have a pretty knee-jerk response to being thought of as conventionally "sexy".) I'm not saying that I dress to hide my hourglass shape necessarily, but I do not want to accentuate it.

The concept of JFE is such a freeing thing for me. And for the record, I'd wear your coat with two changes, both having to do more with poison eye/personal issues rather than flattery. (The bracelet sleeves, as you know, and the fur, because I have weird tactile issues with fur.)

ETA: Also, I think we can't discount the grass-is-always-greener argument. I HAVE the conventional hourglass figure and I can't tell you how often I've wished for the IT, avant garde figure. But I think this is just a case of always wanting what you can't have, you know? We just have to accept that not everything will work for everyone, because people come in all sorts of shapes and sizes. I think at its heart JFE is about figuring out how to make the things we like work for the bodies we have.

I also admit to having shoulder envy. Most models are these Kibbe FN types that can just hang clothes off their shoulders and they hang perfectly.

I have no shoulders to speak of. Arms are too long on standard wear, the arm seams are halfway to my elbow, ugh. My mother used to say that my father's sisters grew up hungry and that is why everything had to be tailored for them- as they had low bone mass which showed up in the shoulders. Not true. I have been very well fed and I have those same shoulders- it is genetic.

I personally feel that the coat in question would overwhelme me. It is lovely and something that two of my sisters could wear and look fantastic in. It really is a dramatic statement piece IMHO. The kind of item, I would look at, say no, look at again, say no, then try it on, yes yes yes...NO.

I still struggle with Kibbe- I love the concept- but I just can't see myself correctly. One day, SN, then FG,then DC... drives me nuts.

I'm lucky to have a strong shoulder line, but it's not strong enough to put me in the Dramatic Kibbe category. It's strong enough for my clothes to hang well, though, and for that I'm grateful. My struggle, after 4 kids, is my abs. I've also gained a little weight lately and am trying my best to lose it. It all went to my stomach and hips.

Diana: that "grass is greener" thing - ain't that the truth! Like you, my tastes run to the eclectic, and all too often I find myself wanting to wear All The Clothes All The Time, which is a plainly ridiculous notion. But in the end, what we decide to put on our backs is as much a result of how we want to present ourselves as individuals, and not simply about what suits us.

I really like what you say about playing down your womanly form and emphasising your contrarian streak, because I do that too. It recalled Angie's earlier comment about hiding her big eyes behind specs, which I hadn't really parsed at first but has since left me thinking. Why would you or I or Angie or anyone else make that choice to conceal something that might make us more beautiful in the eyes of the beholder? It's about turning down the sex appeal and dialing up on charisma.

For me, dressing well is not simply about looking more beautiful or alluring (although it can be about those things if that's what you want), it's about making a conscious decision to present yourself to the world as you would like to be seen. People who don't take an interest in clothes seldom appreciate just how empowering it can be to take complete control of your appearance. This concept of JFE gives us the freedom to do that.

Anyway, thanks for the comment on the coat. I honestly wasn't fishing for any kind of compliment, and now I know we can agree to disagree on faux fur and bracelet sleeves

Sheila: you've got me thinking about statement pieces now. I might come back to that later.

This has been a fascinating read, thanks for starting this thread Appro. I identify most with Angie, Diana and Rachy wrote. I am most interested in style as a creative expression of myself, and in the idea of feeling authentic to myself in my clothes. Totally also could've written Diana's entire second paragraph:

I also have a strong contrarian streak. I cannot tell you how many times I have been told that I should wear more bombshell things, or thatI look great in hourglass silhouettes, etc. All that praise/encouragement actually makes me even less likely to want to dress in those silhouettes. (I already am inclined against them because I have a pretty knee-jerk response to being thought of as conventionally"sexy".) I'm not saying that I dress to hide my hourglass shape necessarily, but I do not want to accentuate it.

A big hearty AGREED to all of that! So yes, I certainly am willing to dress in a way that bucks what would be considered conventionally flattering to my shape, and more often than not do this (in particular I enjoy waist surrender).

To a degree being IT with hourglass tendencies probably makes it possible
to actually, you know, skew my presented visual shape to something
different as long as I'm willing to be less than conventionally
flattering. Which might be part of the appeal to me, who knows

FWIW, I don't dress for maximum flattery but I won't wear something if I don't feel it is JFE. I am most self-conscious about my short, heavy legs so I shy away from stuff that makes them look even shorter and heavier. I look for flattery in colors, so I would want to see your coat in gray/black/light vs. brown. I am also short (5' 1") with narrowish shoulders and small features, and although I am by no means delicate or fragile, I have to remember that *strong* looks can still overwhelm me.