As a mother of three boys all older than yours, I can say that I refused to get confrontational while still expecting respectful behavior. I would literally laugh and ask what made them think that was ok. The minute I saw shame in them I build them back up saying It's not becoming of them and they could do better. It in my opinion got my point across without escalating it. It's an age related thing and I almost expected it while still letting them no, it isn't ok.

I knew I could count on you all for some stellar advice. Gaylene, your post basically sums it all up. No matter what, we hug goodnight and say "I love you" before bed. And Tracey and others who are mostly on the other side are helping me with perspective.

I picked up DS today and he was in a silly bubbly mood. We had a little car chat and he acknowledged and apologized, and I told him he needs to tell me kindly if he needs me to stop asking questions. We came up with some good ideas. He's really a good kid, it's just that we've been so close. He knew I was upset this morning. I remember when he was a baby with huge brown eyes, how closely he would study people's faces for emotional cues. That's still in there somewhere.

Thank you all - this thread is a favorite among favorites for me now.

Ok, I am coming from another angle here so please bear with me. From my past experience as an 11 year old myself and raising both a daughter and a son on my own, I think in retrospect, a lot of what I felt were issues was totally me. My fear of losing my babies, their growing up, moving away from me, all of it. My daughter was my practice child so when my son went through his stage I was more practiced and less stressed and worried. Honestly, I was so sad that the awful stage had come I had trouble with my own emotions which made it harder on my children. I know you think the life stuff he deals with today is harder than you dealt with, but didn't your parents feel the same when raising you? This is just another or maybe the first step in moving away from you and it is so hard, scary, and sad. We say we want them to grow up to be well adjusted humans and then realize as we help them do this we become less well adjusted humans. At least for awhile. (I say ten years for me). Una, no matter what, he is making his own decisions now and can you really change them? My guess is no. As humans, the only way we grow is by making mistakes. Having a safe place to land when the mistakes are made is really all we, as parents, can provide.

Deb, those are excellent points and so true - much of this is my own emotional upheaval as I get pushed away, and he and I react to each other's moods much more readily than DH. We had a sweet night tonight reading together before bed - maybe he and I both still need a little of that. I certainly don't want him to think he has to take care of my emotional needs. This is HIS time to figure himself out and stretch his boundaries. It's new for us both.

alaskagirl - It sounds to me like you're doing a great job -- what you describe -- your close relationship, talking, and reading together at night -- sounds really solid.

Tween-dom is no walk in the park. I remember when my younger child graduated from 8th grade and feeling so relieved that I never had to go back to middle school ever again (as some of the "stuff" does bring up your own experiences)

I commend you on the phone choice. We did get our daughters very basic phones when they hit 7th grade or so -- with all the extra-curriculars it was easier for me. -- but nether got a smart phone until 16.

I think most importantly that home has to be a safe haven. When they are being pushed to the breaking point by social stuff, or fatigue, or physical stuff just being able to walk in the door and know they are loved goes a long long way. I remembered thinking that they were likely hearing or receiving a lot of negativity and criticism during the day and that they needed me to refrain from any "helpful comments"

Time spent "shoulder to shoulder" (rather than face to face) was usually good talking time -- car rides, walks, etc. I got pretty good at asking the the types of questions that kept the conversation going -- i.e. "what do you think about that"

When they would divulge something disturbing that someone did to someone else, we would talk about how the child perpetrating the nastiness probably didn't "feel good inside their body" or inside their skin. Even at that age they realize that if you feel good and happy and confident, you aren't mean to others. You just aren't. I think it helped them realize that when they were being mean to, uh, me, that it was likely because they weren't feeling good about something that had happened to them. The vicious circle.

I would suggest picking up a copy of Dweck's Mindset. It's a great resource to have during the years where kids are developing a view of themselves - I am someone who is ..... (good at math, bad at sports, etc etc)

ok. long post

BrieN, more great advice. I agree home needs to be a safe haven and a place to let go of outside stress. We all need that! We have lots of cuddly pets, we eat dinner together, and we try to have an evening routine. We also try to make it to our cabin once a month for some time away from electronics. But DS's social life and activities (which we limit! I don't want him to live that overbooked life) take more and more time. I don't know why school starts so early and sports go so late (8:30 pm basketball games?). Anyway, I feel calmer and better today. This morning he crawled in to cuddle and drone on about his bad dream. Watching that change from little one to young man is really something. Fortunately he and his dad are very bonded for times when he needs that kind of direction.

Thank you again, all of you - clearly YLF is raising some wonderful kids.

I am late to the thread- my sons are 11 and 14 and we are amidst it too. I don't have more wisdom than what has been offered by others. There are two fab NZ authors- Nigel Latta and Celia Lashlie- both very pragmatic and real. This has prompted me to re read!

I'm going to print out Gaylene's response and stick in on my fridge.

I have been really soaking up the wisdom on this thread! Thanks everyone. Loved hearing about BC's journal particularly!

My daughter is nearly 13 so all too soon I'll be dealing with this. At the moment she is still pretty communicative and self-aware. She is also sensitive and I have to try very hard not to be what she considers "harsh". Even a "look" can upset her (eg "Mum what did that look on your face when I said [x] mean because you looked angry?")

One thing I related to Una, was saying how DS wants to talk when you are dozy. I struggle with this, as the older I get the less there is of the former "night owl". Older wiser mums have told me how important it is to be available at night for teenagers to talk - and yet, now I'm back at work I can't nap in the day to compensate like I used to, and have in fact, trying to ensure I get enough sleep by going to bed early.

At the moment, DD12 is working on getting more sleep too, so there's not a conflict but I am flagging it for the future. (Since we have a church for Uni students, I already deal with their hours by sometimes going to bed before they leave our house - DH is a confirmed night owl and can keep on going but has more flexibility to catch up on sleep)

I'm just now catching up on this thread. This whole pre-teen/young teen thing is quite a ride, isn't it? You met my 13 year old so you know mine won't stop talking. There are days I just wish for a surly grunt instead of a two hour verbal barrage. I am thankful that I always know where he is emotionally and literally EVERY single thought that passes through his head, but wow... Just wow. The attitude thing is really hard to address. I am still not quite sure how, and my husband and I have very different styles. He wants to shut it down and force a good attitude and I'm too far the other direction of letting him vent and not pushing. Poor kid probably gets whiplash. What has helped me the most, I think, is pointing out what other kids do that I don't think is appropriate (as far as how they treat their parents or siblings). I don't want, or like, to run other people down, but it does help to have a real life object lesson that is less personal. I will tell him that everyone seems to expect that just because teenagers have changing/raging hormones, they have license to be ugly to people, but that I don't think that is the case. "Do you hear how your friend x and his siblings talk to their parents and each other? I would be so sad if you ever treated me like that. I am so proud of you for being a teenager and not acting like that..." Sometimes his behavior and attitudes get a lot better when I make him feel that he is just as capable as an adult of controlling himself.

I am very happy to have the collective YLF wisdom in the above responses to refer to! And I am right there in the trenches with you sister!

On another practical note, I have a friend with an 11 year old (who is as big as most 13 year olds) and she said that she just discovered that he turns into an attitude monster when he is hungry! I would have not thought to link that together... I wonder what would happen if you just hand him something to eat when he is at his surliest? Might be an ingesting experiment...