Oh MaryK there would definitely be 2 toilets, one just may be in the basement. Maybe I should put a shower with it for the boys as they get older.

Well we are so all over the place it's not funny! We really have to take our time with this. We're waiting on the pricing of 2 houses we like. We are considering just buying a lot up the street from us, sitting on it, then putting our house up for sale. We would work out what we want to build and once the house sells, start building on the lot. That way we can ensure we stay in this area, and we the added cost of carrying the lot is not a problem.

Astrid I think in a lot of the same ways you do. I grew up in a 3 bedroom bungalow, one full bathroom and one toilet downstairs. My sister and I actually shared a room while I was a teenager when my grandfather moved in after my grandmother died. We certainly never suffered from any of it. I guess we would have the option of finishing the basement down the road if we really feel like the kids are driving us mad and we need more space for them. I just hate having so much wasted space here! My mom makes fun of my cupboards. Literally half my kitchen cupboards are empty!

Well, I went from a 720 sq ft apartment to a 350 sq ft one! It's been tough to get rid of my junk (I'm still working on it 3 years later), but I like the compact living. A balcony would be nice, but that's design not size. The thing I like about it is, it makes you focus. There's just less waste all around.

I grew up in a four-person family and only one bathroom in the house. Wasn't really a problem ever. The house was built in something like 1918. I think originally they probably packed double the number of people into the house. Older houses are smaller and I personally like them better and accept the size. Newer houses have a lot of toxic out-gassing; it goes for decades. It makes me feel like I've been attacked by fire ants. To me the key thing to having room to breathe is ceiling height, not square footage. And that's another thing I don't like about newer houses in my area - low low ceilings in all but the great room that's usually installed.

My grandparents built a giant house. It took staff to run at full tilt. Three flights of stairs to haul laundry. It's a burden. Beautiful and lovely, but when the upkeep is on your shoulders... eh, not so much.

I think it is a wise decision to downsize. But take your time and negotiate a good deal that is fair market priced for the area. If the area has truly improved, you should make money on the sale of your home, not break even or end up paying more building a new one in the same area. Cost of building should be down with the current economy unless you live in a very "hot" spot.

If you do build, be aware that many of the upgrades are 30-50% more expensive through the builder than doing it yourself after. There were some upgrades I wasn't willing to forego or that were not realistic to do after possession and I negotiated them into the agreement before signing. Even then, I felt a bit gouged. There are Canadian forums with information on upgrades and which ones are worth getting and which aren't. Flooring and counters are among the ones with the highest mark-up. I am getting an exotic granite installed after possession for far less than half the price the builder's supplier would have charged. The initial quote for the flooring I wanted as an upgrade was about $2000 more than the cost had I walked into the store and purchased it installed with no credit for the upgrade. I won't even detail the ensuite upgrades but suffice it to say that one small room cost over $10K in upgrades and I went with standard laminate counters and will remove them after taking possession.

I can't stress enough that you should get as many upgrades as possible upfront. Once you sign, you are at their mercy.

If I have time later, I will try to find the forum for Ottawa - at least I think you are in Ottawa.

Racylou are you living in 350 sq ft alone or with family? Either way, that's impressive. My secret dream is for us to be in a small condo, but DH said heck to the no!!! Lol, at least this seems like a good compromise to him.

Those are good points Dianthus. I will have to check into that. I'm out East, but I'm sure the Ottawa forums would still be helpful.

Texstyle our house is definitely worth more than when we purchased it 5 years ago. I do think we will come out on top, but I'll know better once I see the price write up. It won't be much though because even though we would go to a smaller house, it's not like it's half the size, and a lot of the upgrades we want are not cosmetic, but have to do with the efficiency and quality of the house. Things like much better windows, spray foam insulation, composite wood deck, sealed concrete in the garage, full flashing around widows not just the tape, and many other things. And of course I would like some cosmetic things like the flooring, counter tops and cabinets to be nicer.

We think we will have to get detailed pricing from several builders, and then decide. Also, this will allow me to price out the cost of the upgrades, as Dianthus pointed out. Maybe some will be marked up way too much. We can't go back and do things like windows and insulation later though. Well, we could but that would be crazy.

Nope the biggest problem right now is the market is sloooooow. Way more sellers then buyers. So we would have to take our time and make sure we don't sell at way less then we would be willing to.

Raisin, I think taking your time to think this through is a great idea. Most of the ladies covered the points I wanted to cover already (smaller forces you to edit, location trumps almost everything else, etc) ... just wanted to add two points:

(1) There's a lot of chatter about special-purpose spaces (eg home offices), but I believe you can have them in a small footprint if you're very very careful about the layout. Eg, an office "nook" that can be partitioned from the rest of the bedroom (both visually and auditorily!). It puts a lot of burden on your interior design, however.

(2) Storage. Haven't heard folks talk about that, but there's a lot of wasted space (IMO) in new construction. The aesthetic seems to be about "openness" and "airiness", and you end up losing a lot of potential closets/cabinets/etc because of it. Example: I bet you've got 8-10 cubic feet wasted above your kitchen cabinets, and another 5 cubic feet above each bookshelf. Extreme example: a HK friend of mine once marvelled at how wasteful we Americans were with the space over interior doors (she said she would have installed a small cabinet up there!).

I lived in 600 sq ft with 1 bathroom and 4 adults (my husband + my in-laws), and it was fine. Yes, I did say "inlaws" and I did say "it was fine" :). At the end of the day, I think the key to success is actually the layout and the boundaries you set with your roomies: you need visual/auditory separation of spaces, and everybody needs to be ok with folks retreating into them.

Sorry for the wrong assumption on city Raisin. I thought you said you worked in FIS and were unlikely to be relocated again so figured you were probably in Ottawa. Too bad since they do have better shopping.

I put over $50K into upgrades before I even signed the agreement and have added a number since then. It sounds like a lot but includes piles under the foundation, garage and sidewalk, 10 extra potlights, upgraded bathroom fixtures (a major pain to change after as I learned), upgraded flooring (I went with 30 year laminate made in Germany because the maple in the show homes was showing a lot of wear), smooth ceilings, a much expanded kitchen with an added 3' pot drawer and uppers and a 7' peninsula with breakfast bar.

We thought a lot about how we wanted to use the home and where our priorities were. I took time but it sounds like you will have plenty of time to plan. Every time there was a delay waiting for a cost estimate, I would think of something else I wanted to change. Even after all this time, I still occasionally second guess some of the decisions.

Here is one of the forums. If I come across others, I will post.

http://www.buildinghomes.ca/co.....y.php?f=10

I can't seem to stop coming back to this one. Another example of careful choice of upgrades is the A/C. The builder wanted $3500 +GST for the A/C. I am having a 2 ton Lennox installed including the added breaker and taxes for under $2600. Research is essential.

I have been following this thread with great interest although not much understanding! Not only do I not think in square feet, I don't even know how big my current house is in square metres so I can have something to convert it to and have an idea how big you are all talking.

And houses don't have basements here and are usually one floor. New 3 x 1 houses here are usually for retirees, or in a group complex.Or they are old (pre 1970 houses). I have a friend who lived in one of the latter (built about 1960) with her DH and 2 and then 3 children, and she found it pretty cramped.

Your house does SOUND really big too me, and I can see (as another one on the minimal spectrum) why downsizing is attractive. And all those building issues are valid concerns perhaps.

We have a 4bed 2 bath home and the main thing we like about it is that it has 2 living areas - one in the family/dining/kitchen area and another separate one in the front. This was one of our main criteria for a house as DH sometimes has meetings and we needed another room to "live in" when he is doing that. While that might not be a need of yours, we (and particularly DH) enjoy having a separate room which is not full of kids' stuff (I don't mean that we keep lots of toys there - my kids don't even have many toys) I mean they play there, and do craft and do their ironing and leave incompleted jigsaw puzzles and leave their shoes around! etc. We use the same room as this at least twice a week for visitors (as our separate lounge doesn't seat more than six people easily) so we have to turn it back into an adult use room. Sometimes I think having another room for a playroom would be nice!
What are you plans for numbers of living areas?

While I haven't downsized myself (a near relative has, she lived with her family of 6 in a small 3 bed house, and has sold even that to travel around the world and staying in even smaller lodgings) it is something I considered quite seriously when we were thinking about moving to a capital city. Unlike your situation, we have a housing shortage here, with the consequent high house prices and even higher rents and we were contemplating the serious possibility of moving into a 3x2 flat (apartment) with of course only 1 living area. I was a bit freaked by that (especially having no yard, which is not your issue) but decided in the end we could cope with it . After all (as in Astrid's experience) it is quite normal in many parts of the world.

Honestly, I think it has more to do with layout and practical use and the feel of a space than actual square footage. There are smaller homes that FEEL spacious and huge homes (especially older ones) that don't have an open floor plan and feel much smaller and cozier.

We live in a small home - about 1600 SF - and we are a family of five. We currently have one bathroom, although we are in the process of having a half bath put in upstairs. It is tight and I do wish we had more space, but the home has been in DH's family for over 100 years (it was originally built with no bathroom and no running water) and there wasn't really an option to knock it down and rebuild (although I sure tried!).

My advice would be to have a minimum of two baths, and more is better - especially with kids. And as my kids get bigger, the house FEELS smaller. My boys are going to be pretty big, and they already just physically take up more space than I ever dreamed. A compromise might be to have less space on the main levels and a larger finished basement. Teens love having a space to hang out, and that way you will HAVE the space, but not necessarily feel like it is too big.

We downsized approximately 15 years ago when our son was 2 from a 5 bedroom, 3 bathroom, two-story home with attached double car garage and 5 acres of property outside the city. We moved into the city to a smaller city lot and a bungalow with 3 bedrooms, 1.5 bathrooms and a detached single car garage. SMARTEST DECISION EVER!!!

Financially, it was a smart move. But that was due more to living outside the city and the cost of commuting, etc. But it was also a smart move for our sanity. I hate cleaning and I began to resent the fact that I was spending all weekend cleaning this monstrous house. Plus with only the three of us in it, I was cleaning space that wasn't even being used.

We had friends and relatives who thought we were nuts for going to something almost half the size. But the house we're in now is enough space for us, even with my MIL moving in. My teenage son simply made his own bedroom downstairs and now has a finished basement as his "junior man cave". We don't feel like slaves to our home and being in a smaller space has forced us to only have what we need and not collect things because we have space to fill.

The important thing for us when deciding to move was making sure the neighborhood had what we wanted in terms of activities, other kids for our son to play with, good schools, etc. and that the drive to work wasn't going to be horrendous.

It's nice to see so many small-house lovers here! Near my area is 40s/50s era hood with really nice bungalows. As it's a desirable area and the housing market In Toronto is still completely nuts many people are completely remaking these into two storey homes. Since my fantasy is to retire to the cottage for 6 months of the year but have a small city home for winter, I'm worried that there will only be giant rebuilds and condos left in the city. Boo!

Raisin, yes, just my dog and me... although my mom and bf and his two dogs are there all the time. But the place only has to hold *my* stuff. Amazingly, there are at least three families in the building, young couples with babies/toddlers. That was the sacrifice I made moving back from the suburbs to the city and a good location therein. I will say, tho, that my place has a bedroom and a 4-burner stove with oven. My cousin and her husband do the 2-burner stove, one-room thing in NYC. You want to talk capsule wardrobes...

Rachylou, my appartement has the same size! No seperate bedroom, but a seperate and fairly spacious kitchen. Luckily I don't have to deal with a kitchenette like many other students. Seperate living and sleeping areas might be great to have, but I'm alright with the size. Although I'd love to have more storage in the kitchen (I don't have the money to get myself a fitted kitchen). The one bedroom with a 2-burner stove sounds hard...

Hmm, how are you about personal space? That would be my biggest worry. I really like to have my personal space and there are times when I just want to be alone, with nobody else in the room. I am moving in June from a 600-sf (1br) to a 900-sf (1br + study + dining room) place after I get married. It's not the extra square footage so much as the extra rooms that I wanted (and extra closet space, LOL). That way we can each have quiet, alone time if we want without having the other person right in the room with us. I suspect that with teenagers, having quiet time will be even more essential!

ETA: Not saying you have to have a huge house, but I think it's important that there is a place for everyone to go be alone! (I grew up sharing a bedroom for 16 years, and I have sworn NEVER to make my kids share a room. It SUCKS. This is probably why I'm so into alone time and personal space!)

Yeah, I agree, Astrid. The size is really ok. If I have any improvements I'd make, they're more on the design side of things. I really enjoy myself, actually, living small. There's something neat and tidy and adventurous about it (not that I'm neat and tidy).

We have downsized considerably, and I am ever so glad we did. However, I would not downsize to live in a less desirable neighbourhood, unless I had to for financial reasons. Location is so important, and if time is on your side, something will might come around in a choice neighbourhood.

You guys have given me great advice and lots to think of. It takes lots of time to plan these things, and we are learning so much just asking around. We definitely agree now that location matters, which is why we are almost sure we will buy a lot just up the street.

We have talked to another builder. He is well known, been at it 30 years and only buils 5 or so houses a year. He seemed spot on, everything we asked for he was basically building to his own standard anyway. We are still going to check around, but I really can't wait to get a price quote from him.

And now, it's time to look forward to our vacation. The house thing seems to have taken over our brain, and we are barely even thinking of our 10 day trip to Croatia next weekend! I haven't even picked my clothing yet, gasp! Lol.

I haven't read the replies Rae, but with kids your age, neighbourhood and schools are, or will be, so important. My kids come home from school, dump their backpacks and go outside to play. On the street (cul de sac). Do we know exactly where they are? no. Are we concerned? No, becuase we know they are with 2-8 other kids, all with great parents, and within yelling distance. It's truly fantastic. And they aren't watching tv!! I grew up on a street just like this in F'ton... cul de sac "on the hill", walking distance to all my schools and UNB. Never thought I'd find it here. I think making sure you have this type of thing is worth so much, so make sure your new location is at least the same or an upgrade in this regard. IM(not so)HO.

I've skimmed over the replies and I love the *idea* of downsizing. DH and I were trying and trying to figure out how we could downsize enough to be mortgage free etc. We were looking for land to build any number of smallish (maybe 1800 sq ft) plans. We were living with the two kids (2 yr,4 yr) in 1400 sq ft 2 bd house and it was feeling too cramped a lot. We didn't find land, but what we considered a (considerably larger, 3400 sq ft, 4 bd rm, 3.5 bath) than we had imagined we needed/wanted house in a great location on a lake but just 3.5 miles for DH work/downtown area. Which was the selling point for us, no more long commute for DH! Now we are officially house rich and cash poor (I mean we can make our payment just fine, but wont be paying things off super quickly like I would truly prefer) but we love the additional space and that as our girls get older we can have the house where all their friends congregate so we can keep an eye on things, there are 2 bedrooms, a bath and a rec room in the walk out basement that will be kid zone when they are older. So, ee have rooms that we dont really use as much right now, but my recently widowed MIL has needed to stay with us for 6 weeks due to a fall and some broken ribs and it has been no problem with the space we have now whereas in the old smaller house it would have been terribly stressful being all over each other. I am sure you will make a wise choice based upon all the advice. But I wanted to give my viewpoint since I personally never thought I would be a big house proponant, but I really love our larger house and am happy we choose to upsize.