Since I am a concrete thinker, and since I had not read the other thread, I thought Shiny's opener was astonishing! I thought maybe Shiny was wondering something insidious about gryffin. If that were the case, my thought was a journalist gathering info.

JAileen - honestly I'm not that interesting!! insidious has never been applied to me before!! LOL!!

Gaylene, here's my 2 cents on your question:

It can be argued that you're more credible, relatable and authentic offering your opinions on style when you've shown a community your own style. As IK puts it - you walk your talk and not just talk. That is the only reason I decided to unveil my own style - and it took 2 years before I showed myself on YLF because I am actually a very private person. I felt that I couldn't credibly suggest style advice if people didn't see me walk my talk. But we never wanted YLF to be an outfit blog because this is a community about you, and not me. So I post two outfits a month and try to "teach" something in those posts so that it's less about me if that makes sense.

That said, we talk about things on this forum other than the opinions of style and outfits, and in that sense, walking your talk is less of a prerequisite so to speak. And furthermore, anyone who is respectful and tactful when they leave a comment is welcome on this forum. Showing your style is not essential at all. I hope I have made that crystal clear Gaylene and Gryffin. xo

Oh dear, I am sorry to confuse everyone! I added a note to the original post, so as to clarify.

I'm up to my eyeballs at work right now - following along a bit between meetings, will join back in later when I get a chance and can focus.

For those who are not inclined to post pictures, check out forum member Vix who takes artful and incredibly inspiring, educational style photos without ever showing herself completely. She also has a wonderful website.

I don't feel pictures are necessary, but what Angie said echoes with me too.

Hmm, Angie, you raise an interesting point. I'm going to have to think about it, though. To me, half the fun of this forum is the freedom to post without fear of having a colleague know about my bra size or figure issues. Maybe it's time to take a break from the forum until I sort this out in my own mind. Thanks, though, for clarifying.

Thought #1: As someone who still needs to download pictures for her neighbor from three years ago or longer... I feel a great hesitancy to urge anyone to post. I'll just make myself guiltier!

Thought #2: Do people remember when people went off to "find themselves"? When I was very little I thought that was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard. I'm a little more understanding now, but I still think people need to stay home and keep their litter off Mt. Everest.

Thought #3: I am the Godmother. That's my archetype.

Thought #4: Whatever did happened to interesting conversation? Discussing the great existential questions? That's a lot of fun.

ETA: No! No break for you, Gaylene! I always find your comments very helpful. To be quite honest, I think clothes are a philosophical exercise. At least, they are for me.

Una - thanks for the suggestion to check out Vix's photos. I had noticed that Fuzzy has the headless pic down cold. I may think about giving that a try.

Gaylene, just chiming in with my two cents. First, I enjoy your posts because you always bring a wise and thoughtful perspective to any thread you post on. So I would miss you if you were gone.

Second, to IK's point, because I do not post pictures of myself, I self-edit what threads I post on and how I post. I figure it's unfair if I say things such as, "I LOVE those shoes!! I would wear them in a heartbeat!!! Keep!" on K/R thread, when I've never shown the forum my style. How would the person asking the question know how to interpret my response if she's never seen what type of shoes I love and wear? If I had shown her my style, then she could say, "Oh, Liz loves them, and I love Liz's style, so that's a plus," or "Oh, Liz loves them; I don't relate to Liz's style at all, so maybe these aren't for me." So I often don't post on "Do you like this?" type threads.

I feel as if I see you posting mostly on discussion-style threads and not "I love this!! Do you love this??" style threads. Your posts have always seemed entirely appropriate to me.

No one needs to post outfits. Or share their bra size. I just wish they would, is all.

Well, I don't really care about the bra size.

Reading with great interest!
I just had to ask my DD to remind me of the meaning of 'verb' though- maybe I spend too much time on the how things look side and not on the how things feel?
G and G- please continue giving us all such fantastic food for thought on this forum

Well, I'm late to this and totally missed what sparked the questions, but this is a thoroughly enjoyable and thought-provoking thread.

I have also wished I could see outfits from G & G. Two people who both contribute excellent thoughts and feedback, ask provoking questions, and get us all thinking... Well, I agree with IK, Angie and Liz about how much easier it is to process feedback and ideas when you have *some* visual cues from the source. But then, I'm an artist and depend on visuals more than words when it comes to style and fashion.

But I support the right of everyone here to participate as they see fit. Carry on!

Gaylene please stay. I think you are a very valuable participant in this forum. And I am enjoying Gryffins contributions too. I have said before that I have a low tolerance of pictures, so only manage to look at about 6 (at most) threads with pictures a day, and gravitate to those wordy ones without pics!

Mochi ! ROFL .....uh, yeah it is him !

Gaylene, that airport book by Botton is an all time favorite. I also loved how Proust Can Change You Life. He did a great piece on NPR regarding how he and other philosophers wrote about world events as tabloid writers. Botton, not Proust, on NPR.

Gryffin, I actually do not know who I am. I don't know where my thoughts come from, I don't control my heartbeat....I am not really sure of my true image.....but when the lighting is bad and my skin is sallow I know for sure it is NOT me. ; )

I do know that my "energy" existed somewhere before me and will do so after "me". Energy is neither created nor destroyed therefore I am the energy from a decaying tree. When I die , I will be "recycled" into the universe. I hope my current self is at least an upcycle. I suppose that is the whole "brain in a vat " premise. Meaning that I am expecting nothing more than electrical brain signals giving me that impression and nothing more. How do I dress THAT !

P.S. I have only posted maybe 3 or 4 times in over 4 YEARS. and I just want to say thy practically every blog out there takes feedback from readers without anyone ever seeing the reader's style. I find very often that just because someone doesn't necessarily have style doesn't mean that they have bad taste. : )

Additionally, getting dressed in a manner we like means examining ourselves deeply.

Isabel - you are star stuff!!

Gryffin finally, someone who gets me !!!!! : ) We all are, aren't we ? It is so amazing.........

Absolutely!!

I took me a year of lurking before I posted. Another year before I took an outfit picture. Another year before I showed my face.
And despite what seems like a lot of sharing on here, I do not tell everything, eg my job.
I totally think you can contribute without ever posting a pic.
But if you really think in this day and age, that you have privacy on the internet. Well as I learned this weekend, it takes real work. Like creating fake information work.

Anna - you're right privacy is an illusion but it's worse with the advent of the interent. The only thing we have control over is what we choose to put on it. I had not realized you were so private with your photos although, having read many of your posts, I had realized you were very selective with the personal information you share. I've always thought it would be very interesting to talk to you because you seem to use fasion to create a world of beauty, originality, harmony but with dynamic tension and juxtapositon around yourself. You've mentioned that your work is very stressful and that you've seen "evil." Even the title of your blog, "No Scrubs," it's almost like you renounce and cast off what is evil, a conscious shedding off of the ugliness and dissonance that you obviously must battle, and recreate your world anew, using clothing and great shoes!!, of course, as a tool, a personal boundary to create a sanctuary where you can recharge your soul's "batteries," surrounding yourself with craftsmanship, beauty, and unique things that have intrinsic value. Your style is so unique, intelligent and interesting and I hope within it you find the lovliness and grace to restore peace and beauty to your heart!! Very glad you've chosen to share it!!

Wow! I was so busy attempting to meet Dee's challenge yesterday that I missed out on this amazing philosophical thread!

Here are a few things I would like to say:

gryffin and Gaylene -- as two of our most thought-provoking and interesting posters, I certainly hope you will stay around and post in whatever way you like. I always look forward to your comments and gobble them up eagerly! Gaylene, even though I have never seen a single one of your outfits, your suggestions have been incredibly helpful to my own style development (and travel packing). And gryffin, you have instigated so many rich conversations here in the last few months, and your replies are legendary for their graciousness and thoughtfulness. So please, please, please stick around and continue to do what you do! You both enrich our community....WHOEVER you are.

And yet...I, too, would love to see your outfits!

For all the reasons that Angie says.

And here is a reason that I think some of us may feel uncomfortable or awkward at times about those who don't post outfit pictures:

Posting outfits puts us in a vulnerable position. At least when we begin here. It may be easy for some, but for most it is challenging, for a wide variety of reasons. (Temperament, technological ineptitude, time constraints, and most of all, insecurity about our fashion choices -- the whole reason many of us came to the site in the first place.)

Because of this built-in vulnerability, those who don't post outfit pictures (or at least an avatar photo) yet who offer advice and/ or ask probing questions of others can seem to be putting themselves in a "one-up" position. Even where there's no malign intent. The invisibility cloak confers a subtle power.

Does that make any sense?

Suz, that makes sense to me. Ironically, I see it the opposite way : that there are those that have the courage to do something that I just don't. You gave me another perspective. Thank you.

I really felt that Shiny's question was a philosophical one as a take off on the threads on identifying your style or what you communicate through clothes. Sort of like the question , " what is life ? " " Who are you ? " But I realize that was not how others took it and it has splintered off in a couple of directions.

I want to say something about walking the talk.

I don't remember ever having such a deep and extended "conversation" regarding who people are ( what they look like ) on YLF. I have been on for over 4 years and of course I could have missed it. But I think that there is something about Gryffin and Gaylene's world views that many of us find intriguing; almost mysterious or mythical ( and I LOVE it !!!!! ) . I find that they really call us to consider who we are ...and who we are is not our appearance. And many of us want to communicate that through our clothing. So I feel that in a way, we are highlighting two people ( out of many ) just because they have deep, self-identification comments and questions that inspire us to contemplate our essence. There are so many women who don't post, but somehow our intrigue seems to be hyper focused on Gryffin and Gaylene. I know that no one has ever called me out for not posting...at least not in the first year....and only 2X in the last two years have I posted an outfit. I comment all the time and I am a little unnerved that there may be some who feel that I shouldn't comment or give my opinion. Personally, I feel that if someone who doesn't post pics comments on someone's post it is up to the poster to either block or ignore the advice or comment of the commentator. It is a public forum. But I also know that this is not just any public forum. This forum is like a cooperative where we all feel we are a piece of it. Truthfully, now I am reticent to comment on outfits because in the back of my mind I will be thinking, " Oh, I hope it is ok. "

Regarding the comment about wanting to know someone's style in order to consider how valid they are in commenting on ours : How do we handle people whose styles are not at all like ours ? Do we not comment ? Do we not value their "taste" or opinions ? If someone's style is antithetical to ours , does that render their opinion useless to us ? I am afraid that is how that comment came across.

Frankly, I think that it is sad that we would view the value of people's comments by what they wear and whether or not we like their "style". The implication is very unsettling to me. I know that there are many women that I could never dress like or whose style is so vastly different than mine but I love and appreciate their outfits and everything that they have to say. I am also not very sartorially adventurous but deeply enjoy others willingness to be so.

Such a big part of our society accepts the talk without the walk. If we didn't , sports newscasters and all the people that call in to sports talk shows would be gone. There is a whole, money making industry around it. Consultants for example. NPR would cease to exist because people call in with opinions on things that they don't "walk" . In fact, we wouldn't have any political interactions or roundtables or call in radio shows since most of us are not professional politicians. In fact, neither are the people doing the shows and taking the calls. Anyway, the examples are many.

As someone who doesn't post photos of myself, I started a reply here and deleted it earlier this morning. Isabel, your posts on this thread echos my thoughts exactly, so thank you. Like Gaylene, I have considered in the future just reading the blog after reading how some feel about forum "talkers" that are non-"walkers," but I love the threads here that are about things which are tangential to purely clothing purchases and outfits -- those with a more philosophical and existential bend. I'd like to continue and feel welcome to participate on a level that I choose and feel comfortable with.

Isabel, all good points. I think you're right that we are picking out the two "gs" precisely because they offer us such rich topics for conversation and really challenge us to think harder -- which is hugely valuable and a big part of what makes this site so much fun. So again, I would not want them to stop doing this and I love that the site is available to those who don't wish to post outfits as well as to those who do want to post.

And I absolutely hope you will continue to offer your thoughts as well!

I also see absolutely that those who do post photos may seem to those who post more rarely or don't post at all to be invulnerable in a way, or at least more thick skinned (or exhibitionistic!). That makes sense, too. Plus, posting photos gives its OWN power within the community. And I'm aware of that.

Anyway, speaking for myself, I enjoy comments on my outfit posts from all kinds of posters, those who share my style and those who do not. It's all interesting and valuable. I can filter it as I see fit -- just as you say.

And I also hope that those who don't post outfits will still feel just as welcome. Angie's made it 110% clear that they ought to. And I would be very sad if we lost some of our members who post outfit photos rarely or not at all -- including you, and our two Gs.

ETA: Claudia - crossposted. Again -- my intention is not at all to suggest that anyone who chooses not to post photos is unwelcome. On the contrary.

Angie said it best, as always -- it takes all kinds to build a rich community.

Suz, you are NOT an exhibitionist ! LOL If you were, you would have posted the " bruised bikini " pic.

I also know that you have no issues with this. You are so kind and gracious. ALWAYS. I know you have no problem with me commenting on anything you post. I can tell ! : ) I also know that you were putting forth a very valid perspective, which I really appreciated since I had ever thought of it that way. I also didn't get the impression that you were saying " don't post".

Now in general, I feel as if Gryffin and Gaylene have been singled out. And I don't like that. It should always be about me, me, me. And sometimes you. : )

Disclaimer....I don't feel at all that is where Shiny was going with it. It just kind of became it on it's own.

Claudia, thank you !!!!!

Totally right, Isabel -- not fair for our two gracious Gs to be singled out. Except for their brilliance and sagacity. That's the true thing -- both offer such wisdom to this community (are you listening, G and g???)

Thinking a bit more about it...my comment about subtle power is somewhat related to the reason we prefer commenters on public forums (e.g. letter to the editor, etc.) NOT to be anonymous. They don't have to walk the walk (so to speak); everybody has a right to an opinion! But we tend to feel more comfortable if we know where that opinion is "coming from." And we trust it more, as well.

Now here, some of us post real names and some don't, and nobody posts her full name -- and that is as it should be! We all know how easily privacy can be breached on the internet and lots of people have good reason to maintain anonymity.

So whatever we choose to call ourselves is all good and I don't think anybody would ever quarrel with that for any reason! After all, when your account was hacked, Isabel -- we could tell right away. We get to "know" each other amazingly well just from our comments.

Which really proves that the photos shouldn't be necessary.

Some of us are just super nosy!!

My position on the topic is crystal clear further up on this page. It's very simple, and there is no need to complicate matters. I will repeat it here for good measure:

"Anyone who is respectful and tactful when they leave a comment is welcome on this forum. Showing your style is not essential at all".

I don't think Gryffin and Gaylene were signaled out. Thank you ladies, for asking the questions and graciously replying with your own points of view.

And finally, what Anna said is true. We have barriers in place so that the forum is less public than it used to be. But nothing on the internet is absolutely private no matter how you try to control it.

Onto having fun with style and fashion. xo

Suz,

Another fabulous point. Thank you. How true about the letter to the editor or even "sources" and witnesses. You are right.

Oh, the hacking, yes. What a great example. Isn't that funny how you guys do "know" me and "recognize" me ? Very interesting and accurate point.I just had a conversation a few days ago with my husband about not having much interest in others' lives. My 11 year old and her friend accused me of snooping through the friend's iPad and erasing a text thread. I took the iPad away because the friend was having a texting fight with a couple of other girls and it became very disruptive. But I didn't read the thread or erase it. In fact, I didn't have the girls passcode. My husband said, " How could you NOT read it ! It would be such a blast ! " I replied that it never crossed my mind. The only people whose lives I like snooping on are the Real Housewives of New York and Atlantanta !!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA ! Which works out really well for me since they film it for me.

But I do think that it is a natural curiosity, of course. I often go to a person' s profile page. I like the background. Snooping ? LOL . For whatever reason , I never associate it with participation or value of comment. I know that you don't either.

I am not meaning to single anyone out. Post, don't post! But when people talk a lot on a fashion forum where we can share outfits, it's only natural to be curious what they themselves wear even if it's a pinterest spread. Or, like I did recently, pictures of my feet.

I'm glad we have philosophical discussions, and that people enjoy them, and that we think about what our bodies and how we present ourselves represent in today's sometimes-fraught world. But clothing is visual... so I'm sure you can understand why some of us like visuals, even if others skip them and go straight for the deep thoughts.