I personally liked Anne Rice's Sleeping Beuaty take-off. Although it may contain too much male-on-male for some; and does anyone remember any female-on-female? It's not like I memorized them, but I don't recall much offhand.

OK, I'll read it. I'm always up for a challenge! I can keep an open mind. But I don't think I can set aside my feminist views, any more than I can put aside being Indian, KWIM? I will get back to you!

One of my coworkers is a huge Twilight fan, and then also became a 50 Shades fan. I just don't get the allure. At all. If I want to read something kinky, I'll go find it, better written. And if I want to explore BDSM, I want to do it with someone who respects me, not someone who mentally abuses me because it makes them feel better about their own psychological issues. I agree that it's great that this book has inspired women to be more sexually adventurous, but that's the only good thing I can say about it.

What I will add is that if you have not taken the opportunity to hear Gilbert Gottfried read this book aloud, you are missing out on one of the funniest things I've ever heard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K1RcKJVbHA

I'm about to start "Bared to You" by Sylvia Day for my book club. Apparently, it is extremely similar to 50 Shades of Gray, only well-written, lol. You all might want to take a look at that one if the poor writing in 50 Shades proves too much (I know it's a sticking point for me).

IK, I forgot about the male/male scenes in the Sleeping Beauty series! I do remember them in Tale of the Body Thief though. Whew!

50 Shades of Grey and Twilight are huge among my age group, high school/college students.The Twilight series is a series I would describe as light reading on a rainy day. Twilight is marginally better than 50 Shades of Grey. Frankly, James gives fanfiction writers a bad name.

Meyer is a much better storyteller than James. Edward is controlling. Yes, but all the characters in Twilight showcased both irritating and good traits to an extreme. James' characters are caricatures of caricatures. Meyers' books had fantasy in them and didn't try to go for a complex plot, so it's easier to look back at the Twilight series as maybe a fond memory in joining in on a pop culture movement. Perhaps this is because Edward is supernatural and his more controlling behaviors came because he is supernatural. That, and his mind is frozen due to vampirism so he at least has an excuse for his perpetual teenager gimmie-I-wantisms.

50 Shades of Grey is popular, but I still consider it fringe. People at my college will admit to reading it but they don't really say it outright. James painted both her characters into a corner. Bella at least had opinions (not wanting to get married, wanting to have sex on her honeymoon, etc) but Anastasia is basically static is hell. Christian doesn't fully confront his demons and magically changes. Anastasia sure didn't seem to do much. As a psychology student, that pisses me off. If James is going to write about how Christian's issues FORCES him to want to do BDSM and control Anastasia, she should also fully explore his issues. This is an adult book marketed towards adults. What's up with all the vague character development and poor writing?

I would describe 50 Shades of Grey as a childish pseudo book that can't fully commit to anything but wants everything. Huh. Sounds like a certain character.

So I will step right in it, since I'm from wild and wooly town and you see people walking their girlfriends' on leashes around here often enough. Everything objectionable you mention, Irene (and I don't disagree necessarily), is frankly part of the sex. It's all geared towards the sex, getting someone turned on enough to enjoy it, and perhaps one should consider it from that point of view also.

However, I will say that after 44 years of keeping an open mind and so forth, I have come to a conclusion. It's a big whatever to me... But I do have to ask - if you need that much gear to have sex, if you have to work that hard, maybe you weren't meant to have it. It's something to think about. Not having sex is really not a very big deal. No body parts will fall off, and you will spend the vast majority of your day not having sex anyways.

And my final final word: *Sex and violence are purely separate pleasures for me.*

Ha!

p.s. No issues, personally, with Twilight - except that it's something that pre-teens read. I recoil at the idea of normalising, even expecting, being sexually active at that age - which I think having these books out there and lauded does.

Sure teens and tweenies are becoming sexually aware, but they should know what side of the line they're on firmly. They should have to face down all the adults in the Adult book section of the stores to get it.

I'll just say that role-playing is one thing, and transforming yourself into a different individual is another thing. Taking a submissive role in bed doesn't need to equal taking a submissive role in your whole life!!!

But you ARE right: they do get turned on by each other all the time, which I guess is what makes them take the role-playing full time. As great as sex is, I don't think it's that fantastic that your entire life revolves around sex. Don't these people have anything else to do or worry about? lol (silly question given the fact that it is erotica, I know)

Lol. I don't know. You would think. Maybe collect some stamps or something.

I think if the craft of the book were better, we wouldn't be arguing about it, TBH.

Also, I hate Twilight, but isn't the point of it that Bella and Edward DON'T have sex until they get married? I seem to remember her wanting to kiss him and him recoiling.

Funny enough I made it through all 3 50 Shades books, but I could not get through the Twilight series. I stopped half way through book one! Lol, and it's not very often I do not finish a novel. Also, pretty funny, I didn't realize the 50 shades books were a trilogy. When I started reading #1 I thought it was just one book. When I got to the end and realized there were 2 more, I was like "Oh man, I have to read 2 more of these!" Lol, the writing really was terrible, and I'm by no means a writing expert. I had already read the first though, so no stopping when it's a "trilogy", lol...unless it's Twilight, haha.

IK, that's true. But the obvious message doesn't create the overall narrative. Bella's EMO to the point of extremism.

I read the first Twilight book and couldn't stomach it anymore because it was so juvenile (yes, I realize it is "young adult", but thought that with so many adults reading it it might be better) and poorly written. I couldn't even try with the 50 Shades of Grey.

Ultimately, though, the author didn't HAVE to be a good writer. She was writing cheap knock-off fan-fic and it happened to take off. Had I been in her position, I would have taken advantage, too. The characters were never intended to be stand-alones (they were based off of already existing characters and only existed for the purpose of the sexual fantasy fan-fic), so they filled the roles for which they were intended. I don't know if anyone has read other fan fiction, but most of it is comparable to 50 shades of Grey in terms of style, character development (none) and storytelling. In other words, while there is some worthwhile writing, as a genre fan fiction mostly stinks and 50 Shades of Grey is no exception.

I would hope that no one would take ANY romance/erotica/sex novel seriously enough to base one's life off of. To be honest, MOST "romance" novels in book stores have overpowering "alpha males" and women who ultimately are submissive in the end. Few of them provide healthy templates for any kind of relationship.

I guess I am more disappointed that such poor, poor writing became so popular. It is mind-boggling, and makes me believe that any giddy, over-sexed teenaged girl (which is how the writing comes across, despite the author not fitting the criteria) could become a publishing sensation.

crap. I had written the longest reply that disappeared into cyberspace. But the gist was: its fiction: good or bad, that' s all it is.

There are many more real women out there in submissive relationships-sexual or nonsexual who are in real danger. That makes me want to take to the streets, have the men castrated and what not. That is what my brings my feminist views to the forefront.

A book is a book is a book: it can affect you profoundly in good ways or bad ways or in an indifferent manner. or in an " ok not really my genre but it has some interesting parts to it". the latter was my take on it.

Rachylou - What? I don't understand.

II was so bored with 50 Shades of Grey due to bad writing, silly characters, and the sex scenes were something a man would think of. I'm all for a little fluff, but this was just ridiculous. I couldn't stomach reading book 2 or 3 not because of the S&M nature, just stupid characters. That's what annoyed the heck out of me.

As for Twilight, I guess I'm into the YA fantasy genre (and to each his own) and it was a time in my life where I wanted to forget my present for the time being. I thought the writing was beautifully done (just disregard the vampire aspect of it), especially remembering your first love. Yes, the characters could be annoying at times but I still read all 3 books.

IK - yes, after I posted, I said to myself, "Well, that was a Chrissy Snow post" (a la that '70s tv show Three's Company). I.e., incomprehensible.

I was trying to say (and may not do better) that in Twilight, Edward promotes the good old fashion value of waiting until marriage, but it's more of a plot point than a thematic one. Thematically, the book is wholly concerned with emotional excess and bondage to emotion. For example, Bella is in all ways too young to marry Edward and they split up for a bit, and Bella becomes essentially catatonic and then reckless. Edward has to come back or she's gonna end up killing herself; so we have a nice sprinkling of emotional blackmail and co-dependency there. And of course, we call that Love in the Twilight series.

Rachy - Got it! I agree.