I must be odd because I find that I don't care in the least if someone sees me as ridiculous. I recognize that I am privileged to work from home -- however i choose to dress, it is not going to cost me my job. It is not going to cost me my friends, because either they have no interest in fashion whatsoever and barely notice what I wear (one reason I've found my way to this site - to find some kindred spirits!) OR they are cheering me on from the sidelines. It is not going to cost me my husband, because occasional negative comments (i.e. "Talk about someone dressing younger than she is..." about the moto) he's actually very tolerant and if I choose to keep that jacket and rock it, I guarantee you, within two months he will LOVE it (because that's just how he rolls).

I live in a very unfashionable town. I don't think most people pay attention to what I am wearing. Occasionally someone will pay me a compliment or ask me where I got an article of my clothing. But that's about the extent of it.

So the way I see it, at this age, I've finally earned the right to dress however the heck I please!

And I guess my aims don't have a lot to do with age. I want to look great. For ME to look great, it is probably going to involve a lot of classics and clean lines. But I have a friend whose style is much more retro-rocker-chick. And she is my age. And for HER to look great, it's going to involve ALGO. She wouldn't be *her* without that excess. It's her trademark, what gives her the special *zing* that sings. A stranger might see her and think something judgemental, but no one who knows her does. And a stranger might see me (or someone like me) and think, "How dreadfully boring."

I guess I just think - we can't control what other people think of us. So we might as well have fun ourselves and let the chips fall where they may. Apart from doing our best not to offend people in delicate situations (e.g. the funeral of a conservative older family friend, or in a very conservative workplace or place of worship) I think we should do our best to dress to please ourselves - which heaven knows, can be difficult enough!

I'm a little taken aback by the negative comments regarding PdP's observations. I find that PdP's blog appeals to me because I find her observations are usually wise and witty, especially when it comes to the issues that we face as women who are growing old in a society that revolves around youth. And I don't think that she was being catty as much as she was using the incident to represent how difficult it is to resist the lure of a style that perhaps is best left to a younger woman. Experimenting is good, but, as others have pointed out, not as easy when the line between edgy and ridiculous can be razor-thin. And, for most us, the opinions of others DO matter-- otherwise why do we frequent this forum. We dress for ourselves, but also to be appreciated by others.

Me personally, I'm not all that interested in pleasing a couple of strangers who find it amusing to hang out in fitting rooms and trade negative whispers about other people's fashion choices.

I would definitely reserve judgment until I saw the woman and the dress in action and in context.

ETA: Gaylene, what is your goal with respect to "age-appropriateness?" If your goal is something like "never attract any unfavorable attention for my wardrobe," that will result in a very bland wardrobe that, frankly, won't be much fun for you or anybody else. And that's assuming such a goal is even achievable, which it probably isn't!

I just read the blog article. Imo the observations do come across as a put down i.e. the woman in question doesn't know enough to know she looks ridiculous. There is a tone that I don't personally like; I really find it difficult to deal with women judging each other in this way. Vive la différence I say.

I hang out here because I enjoy the friendship--it's enjoyable for me to spend time with other women who share the same hobby :). I really love the community Angie and Greg have created. It's fun and lighthearted and it helps bring balance to my life. To be blunt, I don't come here for approval about what I wear! Of course, I like it when people compliment me on what I'm wearing, but at this stage in my life (I'm 45) I wear what I want when I want to wear it. With each passing year, I grow more confident and feel more powerful--I'm just not willing to bow down to others' pronouncements about what I *should* do or wear or say.

When I was in my early 20s I used to go watch my boyfriend's band play. I was a wild dancer when the mood struck me, and sometimes I would be the only one dancing. One time, these two guys were standing off to the side of the dance floor making fun of me. I guess I seemed ridiculous to them and they were trying to shame me. I stopped dancing and walked up to them and confronted them: "What's your problem? Why aren't *you* dancing? It's fun!" They quickly skulked off and I continued to dance. I reject others' attempts to shame me for having fun or enjoying life or expressing myself. Dancing or fashion/style, it boils down to the same thing for me: I'm going to be who I want to be and I'm not going to allow others to rain on my parade!

Good question MaryK. To be honest, I don't know. It seems like it should be easy to just say I'll wear what I please regardless of what anyone thinks. And to some degree, that does reflect my attitude. But I also find that, depending what I wear, I can evoke very different reactions. I get much better service, for example, when I wear a classically elegant outfit but that same outfit can seem intimidating to my students if I wear it to work. Right now, I'm trying to figure out if it's possible to integrate my different personas without losing my sense of style.

YAY, Jonesy!!!! You ROCK!!

I also want to add -- while people's negative judgements can be real (those guys that Jonesy refers to; the blogger watching the older woman trying on the "too-young" dress) more often than not they are figments of our imagination.

People generally are not thinking about US and how we look at all! They aren't thinking we look ridiculous. They may be frowning, but what they are really thinking is that they should not have eaten those fries with lunch, or their boss is an idiot, or why did they forget to buy milk, or even, why can't they find a jacket like the one we're wearing?

Like Jonesy , I come here not for approval, but for the community and shared pleasure. I also come to learn. My style is still very much evolving and this is a place I can learn by looking at other ordinary women all trying to look their best. Magazines can't give me that. Of course I enjoy it when an outfit or new purchase meets approval. But I take pictures and post them far more for the learning opportunity and the fun it offers me than in the expectation that everything I post will be loved. And I certainly don't imagine that everyone will like my outfits. How could they, given the variation in the styles represented here -- although I do believe in general we are a tolerant lot and appreciative of one another's preferences.

I also hope that posting helps others (who don't post) to learn - just as our written conversations do.

But I know I risk looking ridiculous or bad to some people here - some of whom may say so, and others who may remain silent.

That's okay. It's all part of the learning process.

Ah. I see what you are getting at, Gaylene. You have to move in quite different environments.

Well, in that case, I see it as a question of picking the right outfits for the different environments. It is situational dressing vs. age -appropriateness, though I will grant you that this might become a little trickier as we age, particularly in specific environments and especially if our own style tends sharply in one direction or another. If you tend to dress in a very luxe classic way (i.e. if that's your preferred style persona) then yes, in an academic setting, it could come across as stiff or forbidding. So how can you still be *you* and yet increase your students' comfort levels. Or how can you command great service when you go shopping right after teaching a class if you do choose to "dress down" for class.

Still...it seems to me if you dress like Angie's client Karen, you can hardly go wrong in either setting. Karen looks elegant, refined, and very put-together - but also current and relaxed. And NOBODY would dare to call her ridiculous.

I really do think that 99% of the time, we can abandon the concept of "age-appropriateness" in favor of "situational appropriateness." If we want to get great service in a tony department store, we might wear a classically elegant outfit. If we want to seem approachable to high school students, we might wear something a little more funky.

I care that my clothes reasonably reflect my role in whatever situation I find myself. At work, it's "The Woman in Charge." And honestly, the leopard pumps and leather pencil skirt and so on are a calculated part of that because they say "I am so accomplished and badass that I don't have to wear a conservative suit and heels." I think my work wardrobe is fun AND powerful. Anybody who doesn't take me seriously because I'm wearing a purple jacket, pink skirt, and yellow shoes is going to be very surprised, very quickly.

Sometimes when I'm out and about, like yesterday in my neon-and-leopard getup, it's "fun fashionista with a sense of humor." That was awesome at the hair salon and garnered some sideways glances at the eye doctor's office, and that was all perfectly okay with me because honestly, who cares what the other patients in the optometrist's waiting room thought about my outfit?

I guess my "appropriateness" goal in any situation is "my outfit accurately reflects who I am and what I am doing today, albeit in a more colorful (literally and figuratively) way than somebody else might reflect the same thing."

ETA: Or, Team Jonesy and Suz!

Jonesy & Suz I couldn't agree more - it isn't about approval from others. It is great when others like/get you or your clothes but ultimately it's about what you like. I'm all for learning & growing & I'm here because people do give their honest opinions in a tolerant, non-judgemental way. Thanks Gaylene - great discussion.

Gaylene, regarding your students, many of them will eventually be in a professional environment, won't they (not knowing exactly what you do, I cannot say for certain)? Wouldn't it be good for them to know that the person inside doesn't necessarily change when the clothes do? For example, when I was in my early 20's I worked in a music store. I was transferred to the only store in the district whose emphasis was classical music. The manager there was much older, and the assistant manager was a retired man who was VERY knowledgeable, dressed in a suit and tie daily and had an "air" about him that was very intimidating. It took a little while, but he wasn't the person I thought he was at all, and he had an amazing sense of humour.

My point is not that a person should dress inappropriately for the occasion. No one needs to wear a bikini and heels to the grocer. But provided that a person is dressed appropriately and is comfortable with themself, isn't it up to other people not to make assumptions?

Everyone has a bias. Someone will judge you no matter what you wear. So while I agree that the opinions of others DO matter to a certain extent, how much do we want that to hamstring us? I live in a very conservative community where most moms wear yoga gear to pick the kids up from school. I wear more UWP style. I am always covered and appropriate in that sense (no 6" heels and daisy dukes on the playground!), but I don't look like most other people. It has taken a number of years, but most other moms know me now, and we all get along great. I could have facilitated that by denying who I am and buying yoga pants, but I didn't think that was appropriate for me to have to do.

BTW, Gaylene, I wanted to thank you for starting this conversation and also wanted to clarify - I "personally" do not aspire to be like Iris Apfel. I am much more interested in "appropriate" dressing - whether it is age-, figure- or situation-appropriate. But that is just me; I am assuming there are other ways of looking at age-appropriateness. That is what I particularly liked about the quote from "Advanced style" about the different ways of dressing.

I also did not find the blog post catty - the paragraph describing the woman in question was only a small part of it, and I figure everyone, including bloggers, has the right to share their thoughts and observations.

Fascinating discussion, Gaylene, with lots of insightful comments. I agree with the other commenters above that PdP‘s taste in clothes is classic/conservative, (though curiously, she does give a full pass to rock celebrities whose style I think the average viewer would consider as unkempt or dishevelled – [as opposed to intentional or RATE]). Be that as it may, I have dropped in to her blog for her well-informed posts on jewellery (her posts on pearls are truly textbook – gold standard for a jewellery beginner like myself). But over the years I have not felt comfortable with her tone of disapproval when discussing styles that are not to her taste. And as an older woman, I am sure my style would not meet with her approval.
To be honest, I am dismayed at critiques of older women’s style that lack compassion and understanding. Who knows what history and what suffering has informed an older woman’s choice of clothes? If I were an observer in that situation PdP describes, I would ask myself, what opportunities has the customer in question had to express herself in dress up to this point in time? what if this were the very first black cocktail gown she had ever tried on? When we look at a stranger, we know nothing about where she is in her fashion journey. Some older women do not even begin to explore the fashion side of themselves till they are in their forties - their earlier decades may have been restricted by poverty, chronic illness or circumstance. I have infinite tolerance for older women experimenting with style and making mistakes. I never, ever, think that an older woman “SHOULD know better by now”.
I confess here that before knowing YLF (and other supportive fashion blogs), I did use to silently criticize other women I saw whom I thought had “bad” style; using each example to boost my own pride in my “superior” fashion sense. I owe the community at YLF a huge debt of thanks for showing me by example how to leave behind my condemnatory attitude towards women whose style choices were not mine.
Now when I see a woman in the street whose outfit I dislike, I immediately look closer to see what she is doing right. Has she picked a flattering colour? Is the jacket a good fit? Is that nice pair of shoes? I don’t think “What a fail”; instead I mentally give her credit for making tiny steps in the right direction, in a life where she may have hardly a second to spare for herself. In fact I used to be that woman – the woman who flung her garments on in a hurry and hoped that some style would result. I am always aware of what time and energy, what investment of oneself, is involved in creating a unique style - particularly when one is just starting out. I would say I spent 4 years in a state of fashion confusion, just trying to understand the basics of style, before I even began to start to build the wardrobe of my dreams. Some women will never have the time to learn this for themselves (or the means to pay a stylist to do it for them); and some (the majority perhaps) are simply not motivated by fashion - so their clothing style will never be quite as well-suited, or expressive of their self, as it could be; but in my book, that is OK. Much as I worship daily at the altar of fashion, and believe in its transformative powers, I know it is not a pathway for everyone.
But back to the question about age-appropriate styles. I want to put in my vote for the “case by case” approach. The risk involved in applying a style formula - any style formula - for a particular category of wearer - is that of locking the person in to a style rut. I know of no faster way to become “dated” in one’s fashion opinions and one’s style. Style formulas (e.g. “avoid busyness after age 40, embrace simplicity “) are extremely useful for the wearer as a starting point when faced with too much choice - particularly if the person is entering a new phase of life; but simply applying the “simplicity” rule is no more a guarantee in itself of outfit success, than the “Wear Whatever You Like” rule - as I’m sure experience has already shown most of us. And the idea that one shouldn’t attempt a style, because it doesn’t fit the middle-age “formula” seems to my mind to run counter to one of the fun aspects of fashion - which is, seeing if a style you are attracted to can work on your body. Never say Never, is my motto in fashion. As Angie has said so often, our fashion eye can adjust and change to accommodate new looks. Complicated garments with lots of “feminine” elements may – or may not -- be commonplace on women over 40 – but that does not mean that the look can’t be done successfully. And if we make mistakes, and receive criticism? The fact is, I don’t think any of us can avoid making fashion mistakes. Experimenting - and sometimes failing – is part of everyone’s fashion process, and even the best of fashionistas make mistakes. Take a look this pic below of Anna Wintour, that most correct and conservative of older dressers. Is this gown a fashion mistake? No doubt some YLFers will like this gown straight off the bat. It may be that it was actually appropriate for the event she was attending (which I know nothing about)- perhaps a costume party, or a birthday party held for the dress’s designer- or Lady Gaga:)?)- in which case the outfit would communicate thoughtfulness and respect for the host. There is so often a backstory behind “bad” outfits. I have learnt to reserve judgement.
Like MaryK, I pick Dame Helen Mirren as my example of successful bending of those “older woman” rules. I have huge admiration for her style and taste. She does not seem to stick to a “older woman formula” over time; instead she seems to respond to new ideas as they come out and adapt them to her figure and her style. Consequently she never looks “old lady” or dated. I look forward on every red carpet occasion to seeing how she works the trends. What do you all think of her take on “animal print” “rocker chic” and “feminine/big prints/busy” below? Also, singer Deborah Harry in a huge print? The way I see it, women like these make sure that the “rules” of older women’s dressing get questioned - a good thing in my book.

You guys, I am loving reading this conversation, it's very thought provoking! Gaylene, thanks for starting it. I think I've learned a lot about "age appropriateness" means more "situational" dressing in my own book. You guys have really helped me clarify that in my own mind. There is a time a place for most outfits and there's always a woman who can rock it, even if it isn't me! LOL

Last night I thought "Fashion is the clothing, style is how you wear it, and class is how you act in the clothing that you wear." I want to be forgiving and have class more than I want to be thought of as a fashionista.

I too am trying to see what every woman I meet is doing right rather than doing wrong. I think the world could use a lot more of that kind of tone and I'd like to contribute to that kind of place. I think that's why I like YLF so much. There are many here like that. If they can't say something nice (even if it's not in your favor) they don't say anything at all.

Mom's old fashioned advice still works! Who knew?? LOL

Lyrebirdgully, fantastic post. I couldn't agree more.

I spent some earlier, more insecure years of my life being much more concerned about others' opinions of me than I am now. I liked Jonesy's remarks on dancing to one's own drummer (even if no one else is dancing). If someone sees my style as weird, they are obviously not my "intended audience." Yeah, I'm pushing 50, but I'm an artist and a DJ and age-appropriateness (whatever that may mean) doesn't register for me the way situation-appropriateness does. A twinset, chinos and pearls does not fit my life or my personality the way they would some of my peers, and that's fine. I pass no judgment on anyone who chooses a different style -- in fact, I appreciate classic dressers who pull it off beautifully. But I can appreciate something even if I will never put it on my body. Similarly, I admire the Advanced Style ladies even if I doubt I'll ever go that extreme in my style as well.

I'm striving for a style that evokes *sophisticated* rock'n'roll chic. I love the picture Caro posted, and I think that lovely lady looks terrific no matter her age. I want to be her when I'm 81, whatever that fashion equivalent might be three decades from now. If anyone then thinks I look ridiculous, that's ok with me. Seriously, once you've been on the planet for 80 years (or 40, for that matter), why waste time worrying about what anyone else thinks?

*faints with joy at Dame Helen in that leopard gown and leather jacket*

*high fives Lyrebirdgully*

*orders coffee mug imprinted with "fashion is the clothing, style is how you wear it, and class is how you act in the clothing that you wear"*

Lyrebirdgully, you've expressed exactly the thoughts that have been rolling around in my mind since I read that passage. Thanks so much for your articulate and so very wise post. And I so agree that, for many of us, this stage of our lives is when we are finally able to spend time and money on ourselves, giving us the freedom to experiment and play with things like fashion. That's probably one of the reasons our husbands, children, and friends are sometimes taken aback by the new choices we are making.

And thank all of you that made me realize that while situational dressing is very important when we are juggling our personal and professional roles, there does come a time where it feels more satisfying to integrate that style of dressing with one's own personal preferences. But to use arbitrary rules to guide that integration makes absolutely no sense. Guidelines, maybe, but not rules.

But I also maintain that the people who truly would just dress for themselves, and absolutely not give a fig about what others think, are not really representative of the women on this forum. Otherwise why would we care about being stylish instead of "frumpy", or worry about pant lengths, or copy Angie's ideas on how to put together an outfit? Because, if I'm honest, I would rather show the world an image like those pictures on this thread instead of what I see so often around me. But, lyrebirdgully, you are right in saying that achieving that goal means experimenting and taking risks as opposed to trying to follow "rules". So I'm taking the tags off the shredded, printed top that is hanging in my closet-- it will probably be paired with classic black pants (thanks, Angie)-- but it reflects my rockerwannabe, don't-mess-with-me side perfectly!