Jonesy: I agree that quality in lot of brands went downhill-I had same thing happened to me where I had AT pants long time ago that lasted me at least 10 years. But I don't find that clothes last anywhere near as long anymore in a lot of companies.
Echo: I didn't mean whether you, me or anyone else finds the items worth the price, its whether the ACTUAL materials and workmanship is worth it.

Isis: I am not sure if I comptely agree-I think lot of women believe that designer items have superior workmanship and that's why they think its worth the price(i don't believe that to be true because I have seen $100-200 bags that were far superior in quality as opposed to 600-700 dollar bag). Its all depends on the brand. Although I am sure opinions will vary on this one.
I will give an example-i own simple black leather bag from Coach which I bought on sale several years ago(I think it was $120). Its still looks almost new, with nothing torn up or falling apart despite me using it 3-4 times a week. Its definately worth the price I paid and then some.
On the opposite end, I have couple of friends who bought LV Neverfull bag and wallets(this style seems to be very popular and i have seen many women carry it). Both of them started having issues with stitchings and seems coming apart after few months. At the time, this bag was $600(I think). To pay $600 for a bag and for it starting to have these kind of issues after such a short time is a clear indication of poor quality. Just saying

But, to say that the bag made in Asia is of lower quality than one made in Europe is somewhat naive, I think.

Ok let me get this straight. Since I own a designer IT bag, I'm a superficial status orientated sheep with no sense of individual identity, right?

I'm not yet a "bag lady" (but it seems to be creeping up on me a little bit lately) - but I wanted to suggest that there is such a thing as "joy per wear" - just as we sometimes talk about "cost per wear".

About a year and a half ago, I spied this beautifully-made, simple black leather bag at Nordstrom Rack. It was *perfect* for me - the right shape, nice-quality leather, not too blingy, and I loved the shape of it (a rectangle). Plus, it was also a cross-body bag that just worked well on my frame. I paid about $70 for it, which I thought was a lot. LOL. I have since found out that these bags retail for around $400, usually. That's not the point though - the point is that this particular simple little black bag has made me *happy* every time I use it. The leather is beautiful. The shape is structured, but not typical. It stays on my shoulder, and it drapes nicely when I do the 'cross-body' thing. The thing just looks so elegant, to my eye.

I have to say that now that I've had this particular bag for about a year and a half - I'd gladly pay the full-retail price of $400 for it. I like it that much.

I realize that you're talking about bags that are much more expensive than this - and that perhaps quality has gone downhill, in some instances. You're probably right about this, as I've also noticed a general downgrade in quality across the board, at just about every price point.

Meanwhile, what about factoring in how happy a particular bag makes someone? Maybe the workmanship or the quality doesn't match up to some seemingly outrageous price tag, but having said that, I kind of think that if it makes someone incredibly happy every time they use it, then yes - it's definitely "worth the price" to that person.

Not to take this too far off-topic, but I spend more money on food than a lot of people do. I'm very, very fussy about stuff. I could just as easily get a better price on tomatoes at the local grocery store, but it makes me *happy* seeing those organic campari tomatoes on the vine sitting in a wire basket on my kitchen counter. The tomatoes probably aren't *that* much better than other tomatoes, but they make me so much happier. Does that seem kind of silly?

Likewise, I was searching for "gluten free cleaning products" a few months ago, and stumbled upon Mrs. Meyers brand products. Bought some dish soap and a counter spray - totally fell in love with the Lemon Verbena Scent, and the funky, slightly vintage-looking label. Do these things clean better? No. They clean about as well as anything else. Thing is? I love the smell so much that I'm inventing reasons to hand-wash things so I can use the liquid dish soap. And, the counter tops have never been cleaner.

Meanwhile, I think it (the joy factor, that is) works in reverse too. I showed up to a family reunion about a year ago now...wearing purple Converse with my simple jeans and a nicer blouse. Well, guess what? My whole family *had to have* the Converse shoes. My parents normally spend a lot more on shoes, and the funniest thing is that they absolutely have to be real Converse - no spending more on a designer version of the same thing.

I think the same is true of last fall's mad rush for Jason Wu for Target items. I'm sure there were lots of people who could easily buy Jason Wu designer fashions - but there was this fun-factor, this new-ness to the line introduced at Target...and everybody wanted these items.

I think we need a new YLF term/acronym - Joy Per Wear or Joy Per Use.

It might well be that some designer bags aren't necessarily 'worth it' in terms of price, at least to some of us - but the thing is - you can't always put a price on what makes someone happy. I'm not all that keen on Coach bags, but during that same family reunion trip, a family friend was all about buying her daughter a Coach bag...to me, it didn't seem like such a big deal, but my Mom's friend knew that this would make her daughter extremely happy. So, off we went to the outlet store. Not my kind of thing, but I can imagine the squeals of delight when Mom's friend arrived back home, with a Coach bag in tow for her daughter.

No, not worth it to me...but for my Mom's friend, buying a gift for her young daughter - this was a big deal. This same woman would probably think I was stupid for spending so much money on tomatoes.

People wonder why I buy parchment paper and fancy graters. Nobody complains about the food though, and if some little tiny package of organic fresh dill weed puts a big smile on my face, then it's all good.

I still love that $70 bag that normally retails for $400+. I'm so inept at this kind of thing, that I didn't think anything of it, and I certainly didn't recognize the brand in any way - I just liked it a whole lot, so I bought it. It made me happy. It makes me happy every time I use it.

I wonder if the same is true of those expensive, designer bags?

What do you think of this idea? That it's not necessarily the price itself or whether a certain item is worth the price being asked - but that there is something to be said for what makes people happy?

I can see it now...I run into someone who buys very expensive, designer bags, saying to me, "Are you nuts? It's dish soap...you can get Palmolive" and me stammering, "But...I like the label design, I like the smell..." while also thinking, "Are you crazy? Spending $800 on a purse?"

You just never know what will make someone happy.

The whole point about designer goods is that there is a value in them for some people that goes beyond the materials and workmanship. I think anyone would agree that above a certain level the materials themselves and the craftsman's time is not all that goes into a price tag. It would be naive to think that ANY item's price tag is comprised only of the costs of materials and labour.

Again, when we are talking about designer, we are talking about the history of the house, the reputation of the brand and of the item, the often intangible value in the item for certain buyers. It may not be vauable in that way or enough to justify the cost for some people, and that's fine. But it IS worth it for others, and that's fine, too. We all have different priorities, and it doesn't make any of us superior or inferior.

As for quality issues, every brand has those sometimes, too. Toyota is still highly respected for safety despite having an issue with the brakes on some cars. Most designer pieces have the hallmarks of quality and good workmanship, although of course there are exceptions. Again, whether they are worth the cost is an individual matter, but most designer pieces are well constructed.

two words...free market. i agree that there is history, craftsmanship, etc imbued in design houses. some have maintained their quality, some are coasting on their reputation, some are on the way up (again). ultimately these are businesses, especially in these days of holding companies or multinationals buying up design houses for their income stream (lvmh comes to kind).

in the end, design houses charge whatever the market will bear. it is up to the consumer to decide whether to purchase or not.

i would replace "designer handbags" with "large screen tv" or "first generation mac" and see if the tenor of the conversation changes within this group vs a tech group.

So many well put points on this thread. I do agree with Mary that the reason people pay a premium price for certain luxury items is not only about the value of the materials and workmanship. I also enjoyed VC's description of her enjoyment of premium food items - I live with a major foodie. There were a lot of other excellent points, and, as Angie points out, this is not the place to judge anyone's spending habits.

I don't have any problem with somebody taking pleasure in having this season's It Bag for the sake of having the It Bag. People love novelty, they love being "in the know," they love showing that they keep up with that sort of thing. I ain't mad at 'em for it. ;). As I said before, we all have our foibles and that one seems pretty harmless.

It's what we call the "indifference curve" in economics. (-:

Just for the record, anything more than about $300 max is "too much" for me in terms of any kind of bag. So, in this respect, some of the very expensive bags are not worth the price to me.

I have to add I have a $900 bag, for all that I think nothing should be over $500 these days. But I think luxury is dead, that's the thing.

Interesting topic, something I have thought about myself. I agree with both sides, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and fair price is what the market can bear.

I myself am cheap. I have not paid for more $130 for a handbag. I buy most of my bags on sale or from eBay, new not used. I do find that the bags I paid a little extra for seem to be just a little more durable. The more I save the happier I am, but perhaps in the long run, it should have been the more I love it the happier I am.

Maybe bottom line, what matters is what makes you happy and comfortable with, be it $10,000 bag from a designer or $20 bag from Target.

Rachylou, luxury is not dead! It just might be a little more difficult to actually find nowadays, but I hope it's note dead! Luxury is one of the pleasures of life...

I have paid over $1k for a bag and probably will again...I love the LV bag that was originally designed to transport champagne! (-:

Hi Victoria --

I was going to mention journalist Dana Thomas' 2007 book (for those who've lost track -- Deluxe: How Luxury Lost Its Luster) but I see you beat me to it.

I read it out of curiosity and was both enthralled and appalled. To me there is a difference between capitalism + weaving a "story" consumers want to hear and for which they'll pay (branding) and being deceptive.

Companies that opt for the latter...don't get me started.

There's a lot of fascinating content in the book re: marketing driving the "It Bag" phenon. It's an easy way for luxury houses to make money and women were/are open to it because accessories get around the often fraught issue of weight on the customer side and fit on the producer's side.

Tidbits for the interested:

- She says Hermes (as of 2007, anyway) is one of the very few luxury brands that handcrafts every bag from start to finish minus glue. [Glue = sign of plebian bags.]

- Vuitton produces in France and now Spain, but has an assembly-line technique.

- Many, many [unnamed by Thomas due to restrictions] more produce in China but go to great lengths to hide that and/or have all but one part of the bag assembled in China. Remaining part is added in Europe and tagged "Made in Italy" etc.

As I've already said, this to me is capital D Deception.

- Most of the highest-end Made in China bags are of high-quality (some brands sent artisans to train Chinese workers) but the profit margin is even more insane than the Made in Europe. MiC: $120 for brand to produce, retail = $1,200.

Also some really interesting stuff re silk production. Chief thing is that most silk twill for luxury printed scarves made in Europe comes from China. Scarves = $40 - 50 to produce and retail for 10 x that. If Made in China, production is $25 - 30 each but retail doesn't drop.

Amazon link to book:

http://www.amazon.com/Deluxe-H.....1594201293

An interesting topic. I don't have much to add except that if I dropped $600 on a bag that started to come apart in a few months, I'd be returning it flat out. To your point about quality, Victoria - if I bought a high-end designer bag, I would have equally high expectations about quality and craftsmanship as well as beauty and function. However, I don't think there is a "how much is too much". As has already been pointed out quite articulately, it's what the market will bear and how much people are willing to pay. I would hope that if a person spent a great deal of money on a bag that falls apart in a short amount of time and they ARE NOT treated well by the company with replacement or return, then they vote with their wallet and won't buy that designer again. And tells the company why they aren't shelling out the cash for their next bag and will go elsewhere instead.

I would not buy designer handbags in their actual price, only if on sale. That too in moderate. I think I would need only these designer handbags at the most-
- A nice evening clutch
- A nice wallet
- A nice day bag in any shape or size (slouchy, tote, structured)
And I am done. I would not spend my fortune and all those savings in just one bag.

Hasn't most silk come from China since China and Europe started trading?? In fact, I think there were some old tricks that spanish galleon traders used to cram as much silk into a trunk at a time as possible, because there was a restriction on the number of trunks allowed.

As has already been mentioned, offering something lower than market price just because the cost is lower is bad business, IMO. Why leave money on the table?

PS, a lot of latex is produced in China, too, and the production can be quite detrimental to the environment...

I think most of us have probably bought at least one item that was for pleasure and not based solely on price and quality. Certainly we YLF'ers have spent more than perhaps we should have but justify the expense because we fell in love with the item(s). Still, I took it that Victoria was asking if designer bags are worth it from a quality standpoint. If you look at it that way, I'm not sure many of us would say that the quality of a designer bag is so fantastic that it's worth paying $$$ for. Personally, if I spent that much $$$ on something, I would want it to be top quality so that I would get years of enjoyment and wear out of it. I could never spend that much on a handbag just because I loved the design, and I certainly would never buy something just for the status or label. As a matter of fact, I don't like for my clothing and accessories to have visible labels on them. If a company wants me to wear their logos, they should pay me to do it, not the other way around.

Even if one were to limit the deciding factor to quality, there's no saying how much that would be worth in the free market. Say this bag would literally last you forever, without breaking or fraying or requiring repairs. The bag would be worthe the finite cost of all the materials, plus the infinite value of the craftsmanship - how much is a golden goose worth? Well, how many golden eggs will it lay? How long will it take to lay each egg? How long will the goose live, and can the goose have babies when all it lays is golden eggs? How much do people need and want gold?

If I had a handbag that lasted that long, I'm sure I'd get tired of looking at it after several years. That's one reason why I don't want to pay too much for clothing or handbags. I'd rather spend less and be able to replace items when I get bored with them. That said, I don't get bored with stuff in just a year or 2, so I buy better quality merchandise--preferably on sale--that I believe will last for the length of time I plan to use and enjoy it.

Exceptions: Certain classic pieces of jewelry that I own that are 18k gold and made to last a lifetime. Designs of these pieces are timeless, and therefore worth the extra $ I spent. My wedding ring set is another good example. These items are worth spending more for, as they will be cherished and worn for many decades.

Cost is so relative to earnings, if I happened to win the lottery (more realistic than suddenly becoming a CEO) I would instantly add a Chanel 2.55 to my wardrobe alongside a Cartier Tank Francaise with a leather strap. In doing so I would be buying pieces of art history whose aesthetic are iconic and have influenced many modern designs.

That's interesting, RoseandJoan. In terms of how much I'm willing to spend, my shopping habits haven't changed much over the years, even though my DH and I earn a lot more $ now. The only thing I can think of that has changed significantly is that I spend more on shoes because of foot problems. I don't have the mindset that if I suddenly inherit a lot of $ or win the lottery, I'm going to buy such-and-such.

Beyond the cost of materials, workmanship (I believe Hermes handstitches and never glues), small runs, and design, it's all about the value-add and the demand. How much does it cost to be fashion-forward, prestigious? What circles are the buyers running around in, and how much does it cost to maintain that status and lifestyle?

Like some here, I believe it's a free market, so if people want to spend that much, fine. Same with flashy status cars

It is not in my nature to be spendy Ruth, but I already have a real desire for these pieces so if the money suddenly became available I would not hesitate. I would probably still drive the same car though

That is interesting that your perception of value has not altered with you earnings.

I have been spending more since joining a new job, but it has less to do with my earnings increase and more to do with looking appropriate and myself. I think if I was suddenly supposed to fit in in a different circle this could affect my ideas about bottom line, too.

If I spend a wad for something, I have to really love it, use it for years, and be able to tell a distinct difference in quality. Take my piano, for example. It's a top-of-the-line studio grand that in today's market would retail for at least $15k (last time I did a price check on it was in 1999; I'm sure the price has gone up since then). However, I've owned it since my 16th birthday in 1977, and I've earned money with it by teaching piano in my home for several decades. In addition, I've derived years of enjoyment out of it and have taught all 4 of my daughters to play. This piano gets used! And you know what? It's such good quality that my daughters and I don't like playing on other pianos unless they are of equal or better quality. It's one of those things where you can really tell the difference. Even my piano students would remark about how much better my piano is than the one they had at home. So, in a nutshell, it was money very well spent. I don't feel that way about very many things, though. Like my DH told the car dealer the other day, we are willing to pay for the things we like and that matter to us, but not for the things we don't give a flip about and that we aren't going to enjoy all that much. I guess it's a matter of picking and choosing; of priorities. I just wouldn't get that level of enjoyment out of a designer handbag, and I'm sure it would not generate income the way my piano has. Just saying.

Value and return on value is so subjective. It's very, very emotional as well.

Indeed it is, and I can only speak for myself. I think I've been married to an economist for too long, lol!

I think Ruth nailed what I was asking which was whether the quality of the very expensive brands was worth all that money.

Annagybe: I don't think anyone said that you were "superficial status orientated sheep with no sense of individual identity" so I am not sure why the topic on whether its worth owning a designer bag has upset you so much. Personally I have said numerous times that I am not trying to judge anyone if they do because its not what the topic is supposed to have been about.