Environmental norms @ work - YouLookFab Forum

Category

General

Welcome! Read about what to wear and how to wear it on the YLF Blog. Join the YLF Forum to ask specific questions or just chat about fashion and personal style. Or check out the curated list of things we love in YLF Finds.

Outfits Ensembles Trends Advice

Environmental norms @ work

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Veteran

Interesting conversation on AskAManager about wearing a suit to a business casual workplace: http://www.askamanager.org/201.....wear-a-sui

Most commenters feel pretty strongly that you shouldn't 'dress up' especially at first or you will be perceived as out of touch or snooty. I tend to agree at least at first thought...

Here in Silicon Valley, there's not only a casual culture, there's a
phenomenon that if you're important, especially in tech companies, you
prove if by (intentionally or not) ignoring your wardrobe altogether and
dressing in old t-shirts and holey jeans. Of course, there's a gender
component too as tech has been and still is a male dominated field, and
then there's geek culture which can suggest caring about appearance at
all is superficial and shows you're shallow and not intelligent.

Angie has talked about 'environmental norms' at work and elsewhere over the years. I'm starting to think that one of the things that has most changed in the modern workplace is that "dress for the job you want, not the job you have" is outdated advice and in fact could be counter-productive. I'm wondering what everyone else thinks.

General

15 replies

Latest reply was from christieanne

abc

Veteran

Fascinating about Silicon Valley. I've really only seen that a tiny bit IRL.

I think it greatly depends on location and industry as well.

This is where WFH rocks!!! I wear what I want

Jules

Veteran

Interesting. As a woman in tech I've always kind of figured I am going to stand out anyway, so I basically wear what I want. Which tends to be quite casual anyway.
My workplace is unusual in a few ways so I don't think my data points would be broadly applicable. But I am curious on your thoughts as a woman in the industry. Do you dress "like the guys"?

N-Marie

Veteran

Very interesting. My husband works in a mid-sized tech company in Silicon Valley and his "uniform" is jeans (sometimes distressed, sometimes not), an untucked, current-looking button down (anywhere from Zara to Ted Baker) and leather loafers. I see the geeky t-shirt look more commonly on employees in smaller start-ups or on employees who don't interact with partners outside the company. I disagree that (in his company), looking like you care about your experience detracts from how you are perceived. I just think that the norm is jut more casual than "business suits", even at the CxO level, and pulling off that norm successfully means that you understand how to present yourself.

Angie_T

Interesting. I work in media and have a lot of meetings with ad agencies and marketing teams. I rarely see anyone in a suit. The exception is someone in the hospitality industry (hotel or high end dining management) or finance.

In my own office, we are super casual. I work with mostly men and they wear jeans or shorts to be honest. The few women who work here dress sharp but casual. I've seen maxis at work, shorts with heels, jeans....you name it.

It makes choosing outfits for travel somewhat challenging. For instance, the first time I had a meeting at one of the world's largest soft drink brands, I wore a jacket. Only to find the team(men) I was meeting with were wearing khakis and even dark rinse premium jeans.

But I'm not sure I am ready to throw out the "dress for the job you want to have" advice. I think some of the most casual dressers in our office are holding themselves back because event though they work in a creative field, I hesitate to put them in front of clients because their extremely casual look is not what I want to portray. But this is in the heartland....not SV.

Mo

(website)

Veteran

Well, I wear a uniform in my food and beverage career. BUT, when it comes time to interview, or even less formally, check to see if the company is hiring, it can be very tricky to look polished but not overdressed. Talk about seeming out of touch! Wearing a suit to inquire about a bartending job would be seen as odd, indeed. At least in the resort community in which I live. Maybe at the Ritz in NY or something.
So this always leaves me trying to hit the right note. Attractive (yes, looks matter in the hospitality industry, no matter what the company line is) but still polished, but not stuffy. Not so easy. I bought a suit, but it's a more creative style (ruched sleeves for instance) and I wouldn't wear both pieces together to interview in my line of work. If I decide to branch out into a different field, I like that I have it there ready for me.

Liz

Veteran

I think the adage still holds true. It's just that "the job you want" can't be automatically understood to mean "corporate clothing required," the way the adage used to be taken. So, to use Angie_T's example, if those young employees want to get promoted to the client-facing jobs, they would start dressing like whatever those people wear in her industry and her region. That may mean "very polished but absolutely never wear a suit."

Makrame

Veteran

I read the same post on Askamanager yesterday and was struck by the same observation: "dress for the job your want" does not sound like such a great advice if it means you are sticking out as a non-quite-the-right-fit person within your current peer group at work.

I will admit that I probably stick out a bit at work in terms of experimenting more with clothes but then we have so many different levels of (in)formality in academia (from suits to shorts) that it is hard to say what is the norm.

unfrumped

Veteran

It's funny to me that a very casual dress code is still a dress code and not true freedom.
Lord of the Flies and all that.

Runcarla

Veteran

I'm still new to H/O, but I see a real mix in my office. In general the higher the floor the more corporate the look.

Disha

My company is small, and we have a VERY casual office. Casual to the extent that jeans are ok every day, and friday is sweatshirt day.
I stand out, because my direct boss does not like me wearing jeans to the office and she does point it out as a no-no. She claims it is because I have a PhD and should dress like it.
Personally, I like to dress up a bit too, all those long years working on my PhD, I did dream about dressing up to go to work! So I do dress up on Mondays - which are when I am the HQ office and have the most face-to-face meetings.
Another reason I dress up, is because I am 5' tall, and in jeans, look like I am in High School, and people often get the urge to pat my head (which i detest) and I need to be taken seriously, so yes I dress for my job and for any future jobs. I don't want the CEO to imagine me in his head, when a promotion is proposed, and see someone with holes in their sweater (true story - not me).

So, in my company I have the reputation of being well put-together. My boss knows that she does not have to worry about me showing up in flip flops and a skirt so short that it does not count as a skirt (true story - someone in my department dresses that way).

I figure it can't hurt. Ok, I care about how I look, chalk it up as being vain, but I don't think anyone thinks of me as not being interested in my work. I also think, it lets my personality show in a relatively low interaction with others kind of job.

rachylou

Veteran

I find in the Silicon Valley, that uber casual look for senior execs depends on how hard or soft the tech is. Industrial equipment makers still wear suits at the senior level. Maybe they leave off the jacket most of the day or skip the tie (and well, ties aren't production floor safe anyways). The Candy Crush people, not so much (and also, they're SF aren't they?).

Anyways, I'm thinking what Liz said. The adage is true, but the dress forms have changed - and are myriad and subtle.

As a consultant, I go ahead and wear suits in sloppy environments. But I stay away from conventional ones.

But also, yeah, until you make it through probation - you should be wearing what's appropriate for the job you were hired to do.

Aida

Veteran

Hmm I work in tech but within a creative field. I don't work at a normal office of any sort, so I'm not sure about what I'd do in that type of situation but my hunch is that I'd continue to dress the way I do now: smart casual to creative business casual. If other people want to dress in their torn jeans and hoodies, that's fine. I wouldn't be able to get any work done! My hubby is also in tech, and he dresses polished casual for work -- perfectly fitting button-up shirts, nice non-distressed blue jeans, and good quality boots.

bj1111

Veteran

i find that even geekcore is very specific, the right tee referencing the just the right graphic novel with the right jeans. appearance is just as important even in that context as Rachy says.

rachylou

Veteran

I was just thinking about how important it is that your suit doesn't say "realtor" when you're in tech. You don't want to be mistaken for the property manager. Lol. I'm sure it goes both ways. The property managers are no doubt afraid of becoming geeks by association...

christieanne

Veteran

There is a lot of creative dressing in the retail field but honestly, all the people who work in stores do not have a flair for fashion. When we say "casual" people tend to go "uber casual" which does not highlight the best of what each brand has to offer. I think the trend for casual has jumped beyond the SV.
I wear a lot of suits but creative suits - colored blazers with various bottoms, etc. I do need to buy a matched suit for upcoming occasion at work (visit from CEO and exec board - they all wear suits) and am not finding anything I like. I know I can split the pieces apart later but the matched suits are so boring .
I would advise someone who is just starting a job to take an assessment of their workplace. Err on the dressed up side at first and work to put a little personality into the wardrobe.