It sounds like you've already committed to this, and others have already given the cautions I would have expressed, so I'll just say you are a kind and generous person for offering such help, and I hope it all goes well.

I'm just curious, why two months? That seems like a long time -- long enough for someone to set down roots. Might you suggest a month to start with, and then agree to reevaluate the situation from there?

You're a real friend to them! I do hope it all works out.

Good luck, Biscuitsmom! I hope they prove us all wrong and it ends up being a wonderful experience for all of you! Big hugs!! XXX OOO

Thanks, Janet...we said 2 months because of the amount of time it generally takes to get state assistance programs in gear (although they were receiving only food stamps, its a different county here, so they must reapply) and I know it takes time to go thru job applications, interviews and save up enough money to move in an apt. IF they dont find work, Im hoping they will be eligible for more assistance than just food support and eventually get into subsidized housing where they take only 1/3 of your income, but that can take several months, I know. If they have a firm 'move in' date somewhere we can extend it, but if they're in the same boat as they are now, not working and not *really* trying, they will simply need to move on...

Aw, thanks, MaryK! I want everyone to know how much I appreciate them, but felt like I shouldnt try and list everyone by name....but please know if you wrote, it means a lot to me!

Just wanted to add my support to it working out for all of you, Biscuitsmom. Sounds like you going into it with your eyes open, but most especially, your heart. That is really touching. Hope I wasn't too hard on you! You are a generous family to open your home to your friend in a time of need.

Believe me, I REALLY appreciate everyone giving their opinions on this and dont feel anyone is too harsh at all....thanks for the good wishes....they've been here 4 days now, and so far Kurt has worked 1 (out of a temp agency) and Michelle has not done *anything* to even start looking for aid, or a job Im giving her till Monday, then Im going to start telling her she needs to get started doing something, besides be on Facebook playing games.... it is supposed to be a chance to start saving up money/or get help from the County.....I got a bit ticked off yesterday when I saw the big bottle of Captain Morgan I had just opened the day before was *halfway gone* the next morning!!! I told her flat out they cant be drinking it like that and can only have 2 or 3 drinks a day...I think they really start after we go to bed...all in all, things are going ok, though. Kurt did some yard work too, which was really nice.

I've just caught up with this thread after being w/o computer on a trip. It might be a good idea to see if you can call someplace that gives legal advice to be sure that you can insist that they leave at some point if necessary without going to court. They may have squatters' rights after a certain time. I hope they appreciate what you are doing and that all goes well.

Wow this is not a good start!

Your alcohol or theirs?! I am really keeping my fingers crossed for you, and I hope you will not hesitate to tell us what's happening - I don't think anyone here will say "I told you so" if things go south.

Although I know people often get into bad circumstances through no fault of their own, I fear these are not those kind of people. If it doesn't improve, please act sooner rather than later, before they really get comfortable. Please.

We did have them sign papers stating our 'rules' and the date they must leave by, so I think thats what we need....no, it *sure* isnt a good start-ack! Una, almost all the food, towels, laundry soap, etc and all the alcohol in the house are ours, the only thing they are using that they bought is their tobacco (we are non-smokers.) I knew they didnt have much, but I thought our stuff would be used more wisely...I dont mind them using/eating/drinking anything we have, but not excess like that! Thanks for the ongoingconcern...you guys are SO great!

I don't know . . . drinking someone else's liquor with abandon isn't a very respectful gesture (says the bartender). I hope they use their time more wisely and you don't have to start being the house mother.

Supporting you to put alcohol in the same category as cigarettes...luxuries! And encouraging you to insist that they have to pay for their own.

My husbands family was homeless at one time when he was about 10, I think. They weren't drinkers, but his parents were each a couple of pack a day smoker's at the time. And no matter how little they had, he finds it interesting that they always had money for cigarettes! (also interesting is that he recalls that time with fondness because they had to live with other people and the family of five all had to stay in one room, and he says there was a nice closeness, but that's kind of beside the point).

Biscuitsmom, I don't want to sound like I'm scolding or haranguing, but I'd encourage you to call them on every. single. instance. of bad behavior. It seems clear that you and they have wildly different expectations, and it's risky to leave anything unsaid. For example, if you give Michelle until Monday to start looking for work, I can almost guarantee you that she will be playing games on Facebook until Monday, or past Monday. She isn't going to change her behavior until you say something to her. Same with the liquor. These people plainly don't have the same ideas about respecting your property as you do, so you need to be very clear with them.

My suggestion is sit them down TODAY and say, "I'm afraid we aren't off to a very good start. Michelle, I am disappointed that you haven't taken any action yet. I guess I didn't make myself clear enough when I said you needed to be trying to improve your situation, so let's make it more clear: From now on I need you to do a minimum of one affirmative job-hunting or aid-acquiring action every. single. day before you sit down to play computer games. I am also disappointed that you all drank half a bottle of our liquor in one night. From now on our liquor is off-limits unless we invite you to have a drink with us." And then I'd lock up the liquor.

And so on. I know it's hard, but it seems like they are give-'em-an-inch-and-they'll-take-a-mile people. Also, it's really much more fair to THEM to make everything crystal clear, rather than leaving it unsaid and letting resentments build up.

Big hugs to big-hearted you!!

I've been thinking about this thread today!

Besides the alcohol over consumption, I would also find it disturbing if my houseguest in this supposedly dire situation was playing games on the computer, because it appears in denial of what the need is. Jobless and homeless isn't rock bottom yet?

Plus looking for a job IS a full time job....getting your resume in shape, registering with agencies, etc. I notice that my local grocery store chain is always hiring...or how about Target?? Walmart? I think that they should be up and out all day looking for work.

See, I would have so many requirements of them, they'd never want to stay with me :)! On the plus side, probably you will become much more comfortable with confrontation through all this...which we all support you to do.

Oh, Lawd, BM! I am seriously late to this thread; however, I wish you a strong voice and strength in the coming days. <3

I don't know--part of me feels like if she wants to play computer games all day, fine, but make sure she knows she's out in two months. I think if it were me I would say something like "It's up to you what you do with your time. I think it would be most beneficial to spend it looking for jobs and applying for aid, but if you choose to spend it playing computer games, that's your choice. Just know that no matter what, you can't stay here longer than two months."

Steph, I think that's a great point. Much better idea! Don't nag, just make sure the boundaries are super clear and then stick. to. them.

Hey lovely BM - I've just been on here and seen this thread. You (and your husband) are very kind hearted and generous people.

It sounds from your last comment that at least Kurt has made a bit of an effort. To be honest, they both remind me of teenagers doing the whole "the world owes me" kind of attitood.

As such, if they are going to act like children, I propose you may have no option but to then treat them like one.
For starters, I would pack away all of the liquor immediately. Plain and simple. If, for instance, they were noisy at night, I would take away the TV remote. You get the drift.

Sometimes actions can speak a lot louder than words. (Just ask my children! :-))

Best of luck sweety. Just remember, no matter what - Your halo is glowing so brightly, I can see it from here! x

I have watched this thread closely but haven't commented yet, I've been chewing it over all this time!

1st they are adults and need to be treated as such, I don't agree with treating them as children and giving them a list of job finding things they need to do each day, unless they ask for your advice.

2nd if she chooses to sit around all day playing computer games then that is her perogative *however* I would stick to the 2 month deadline like glue!

I think part of the situation they are in now is because others keep bailing them out. My BF was a serial job jumper in our early years and would often spend several weeks out of work. We had a house together and muggins here got into serious debt keeping us afloat. It was only when I got to the end of my rope refused to give him another penny, sold the house to pay off my debt and moved back with my parents that he sat up and took note. Even to this day he gets not a penny out of me if he's out of work. I'm happy to pay if we go out together but if he wants cash for anything he can go whistle!! However he is rarely out of work and if he is he spends *all* day job hunting because he is desperate to get back into work and get some money x

Good for you Louise! He's lucky to have you!

I agree with Louise - it's not your responsibility to sort out their problems - only they can/should do that, and you're being wonderful helping out in the way you are. But there's no reason they should make your life more difficult than you're willing to accept. You don't have to be nasty about it - it's quite acceptable to stick to your guns and refuse to accept certain behaviour while they are in your house. *all said squinting as your halo is shining so brightly I can hardly look!*

Gosh, it's fascinating to read the different takes on the situation!

I'm hoping I haven't caused any offence in my above post. Oh dear. I think one of the tricky things with the internet is sometimes how I write/read something and how others interpret those same words can be different. I'd just like to try and articulate my "act like children" statements so you can hopefully understand where I am coming from - and not want to evict me from the forum!

I'd like to say that I wrote from the perspective that I believe as adults with certain people, or in certain situations or certain life circumstances, we can sometimes adopt a "childlike" persona. This is sometimes a conscious, deliberate act, sometimes it involuntary and unconscious. I know I've been guilty of it in the past. (<oops>)

My personal experience may have been different to the rest of you, which is what I've found interesting! My experience (now that most of the time I'm a hopefully most-of-the-time fully functioning adult) has been that sometimes, despite my very best efforts, it is impossible to make an adult who is acting like a child, to be an adult who acts like an adult. They can't or won't, no matter what amount of effort I go to, or frustration I feel, until *they* are ready. Sometimes they are never ready. Kinda like Peter Pan...

I know from reflecting on myself as a younger adult, adopting a "child's" role can be quite a security blanket, or very convenient at times and a heck of a lot easier than acting like an adult. It can sometimes take a lot of bravery and courage and be *really* uncomfortable and scary to stop acting like a a child and start acting adult.

I didn't mean "treat like a child" from the point of view of nagging, over the top controlling type behaviour, or the enabling behaviour that parents can do with their children. Far from it!

I actually mean "treat like a child" from the perspective of they have to find out consequences the hard way of their actions/inaction, almost as a form of natural justice. (Sorry I can't think of the exact term, but I'm sure you know what I mean!)

I also mean "treat like a child" from the point of view the BM should protect her property, her precious belongings and through the overconsumption of goods and services which may have a negative impact on her finances. Her houseguests have clearly shown that currently that they are not prepared to respect her and her partner's belongings. They are, for the most part, currently acting in a childlike role.

I'm not saying BM do a great big "mummy rant" and "confiscate" belongings ("mummy rant" is my little term for the occasional tantrum I throw when the kids act like kids sometimes do, LOL! :-)).

I consider putting "it" away (whatever "it" may be) to be the actions of an adult to positive steps to protect her property and future wellbeing.

When I mean "treat like children", I meant that actions sometimes speak a lot louder than words. I can say something a hundred times to my kids and get no response (particularly if the TV is on). Action (and not necessarily agressive, or mean spirited) is a lot harder to ignore.

Finally, I was hoping that possibly considering that her houseguests are acting more like children, rather than adults, might help BM deal with the interactions she has with them multiple times a day. It can be easier to know how to act when you have already worked out what the likely response will be.

I truly hope I've made sense and I haven't just got myself into lots of hot water. Just know that what I wrote was written from a caring place. Once again, I'm sorry if I hurt anybody's feelings.

I truly hope today is a much better day for you all BM - lots of sunshine and light coming your way! x

BM - I am a true believer in a community and you are so wonderful by being part of the support network for your friends. It is treacherous. We had our adult niece stay with us for 7 months. We also set out a very detailed agreement and all parties signed it. Everyone has to have chores and chip in somehow. You should also make very clear that your role is to provide them some security while they look for work or get experience to put on a resume. If they are having trouble then they should volunteer somewhere to get experience and network. Our niece refused to do anything that she wasn't paid for and it caused a lot of idle time and no privacy.

Which reminds me, you and your husband should schedule in some "private" time where they leave the house for a couple hours twice a week in the evening. I also highly recommend a bi monthly meeting to review how things are going. We sat down weekly with our "houseguest".

GOOD LUCK !!!

Biscuit Mom, Wow! You are an angel pure and simple - what a blessing you are. I've been reading the thread and have hesitated throwing my two cents in, however, I'd like to contribute to supporting you as I'm sure this is a stressful situation.

I too, am out of work, however, I am helping the hubster with his business (and we're thinking that it may be more of a benefit for me to partner with him going forward) and building a home based jewelry party business (challenging but I'm determined to do it). But this is not about me (and my apologies for rambling on).

I'd like to suggest that perhaps Michelle is in denial/depressed/angry about the situation (though I am not excusing her lack of cracking the nut as it were and as she should be doing rather being on Facebook). In my experience, hard work is the best way to get back on top. She's got to realize that this is not a free ride. One option may be for her to check out Craig's List for day work - at least it would be something and it might lead to something better. And she should schedule her day to include working on the resume (I can help with that! Seriously, if you send me what she has now, I can help freshen it up), calling temp/employement agencies to set up interviews, etc. A great book (if she is into reading) is Brian Tracy's "Maximum Achievement". It is really helping in finding focus,self motivation and being the best one can be.

I hope I'm being helpful to you and just know that you are in my thoughts for a smooth and workable two months and beyond. You are the bee's knees for sure.

OMG....You all are *way* overestimating me! That is so kind and amazingly sweet
KP, I knew whatcha meant, please dont feel we may have misunderstood...been in that position myself! Everyone had such great suggestions, I really appreciate it! Thank you ALL! SJ, I will get back to you tomorrow..thanks

Hi BM, Almost everything I would say has already been said here so I just want to add one thing I thought of while reading this thread. Have you considered having them out of the house for 8 or so hours everyday? The time out of the house would be used for looking for a job, being in the library using their computers, seeking counseling, being out and about in public with people, laying in the park, whatever they feel they need to do to get back on their feet. This will give them a feeling of needing to find a home, and give you a feeling of having more of your normal routine. It could give you all some breathing space and give them a push to REALLY feel the NEED to get on their own.
Like everone else here I just want to say something that might help all of you come out of this on the positive side.
Katiepea, you are just so sweet. You do not sound harsh AT ALL!

In my experience, pain of some type is usually what prompts people to change. This pain is often caused by the consequences of our own choices and behavior. Based on the behavior they have demonstrated, it is unlikely that these two people are going to change, regardless of what you say or do. Perhaps I am cynical, but it will probably be a challenging two months for your family, and I fervently hope you will not be persuaded to extend your offer beyond the agreed-on timeframe. I admire your kindness and generosity of spirit. Our world would be a better place with more givers...like you...and fewer takers.

Kyle, I think you're right. I would even use the term discomfort. If one is still comfortable with whatever they are doing - be it drinking too much, or eating pie secretly in the bedroom at night, or not getting on their own feet and supporting themselves - they are not likely to do much to change the situation even if they recognize it isn't right. But . . . when you experience discomfort - the wife kicks you out because you won't stop drinking, you get diabetes from sugar overload and now need meds, or you have nowhere to go anymore and need to take whatever menial work comes your way or you are literally out in the cold - that is when you make change because not to do so is worse. Okay, off my soapbox now - sorry!

Hope your weekend went OK BM.

It must be (or nearly) one week down by now - You've already made it around 15% of the way through. Time sure flies. (Can you tell I live in a household with boys who love numbers?! :-))

Thinking of you! x

PS - Glad you weren't offended. I was honestly horrified thinking I'd upset someone!

San, they have only one (old) car and cannot afford the daily busfare that would take....tis a good idea, though! Kyle and Mo, straight on! Katiepea, SO sweet of you! Yup, its been 1.5 weeks and Kurt has worked each day, up till now...he didnt call in at the proper time and they had filled the slots. Wont be working for the next 5 days now He borrowed $40 from DH for gas and such) tried to hit me up today, so I flat-out told him no, we dont have ANY extra cash.... today, Kurt tried to tell Michelle she *needs* to do SOMETHING! Which Ive tried telling her too..but she totally ignored him! Stared straight ahead at the computer and completely blew him off! She has given me 'lip service' each day about finding work, applying for Assistance, etc....I am holding off till Tuesday, then going to start after her to get off her butt..they'll have been here over 2 weeks by then. I feel bad, cuz (up till today) he's been trying, but she hasnt done *anything* at all to help their situation. She's done dishes a few times and made 2 meals, but I dont need help with that type of thing....