Hmm....it's hard to tell if something won't work for you until you have actually tried it. What sort of hair cut are you thinking of San? Can you find any pictures and post them here?

I think printing out a photo and taking it to your stylist would be very helpful for them and also for you in explaining what it is about the cut you like. Also, not all stylists are experts at how a cut would work for a certain face shape, they are better at telling you what kind of cut would work for your hair (ie, if it's curly, the texture, etc). This isn't always what's best for your face shape. It's definitely tricky finding a cut that is good for both, and takes lots of trial and error.

San, how short do you want to go? Would you prefer to keep some length?

I usually hate my hair also. I have found that the less I do with it the more I like it. My hair it straight so I leave it that way. I don't mess with the natural part and I don't use a lot of products. I too like my hair short and have others tell me that I look better with longer hair. Those are usually people with long hair. I finally found a stylist that will listen and not try to convince me that I want something that I don't. She is the owner and I pay a higher price to see her but it is so worth it. I always bring a picture of the style I like and my stylist encourages that. She keeps my picture in a binder so it is always there when I come in. Have a consult with a stylist before you schedule a cut. If they try to steer you in another direction go elsewhere. You see yourself differently than others do. So all that matters is what you think is attractive on you. Go for the short choppy cut and post a picture after you do.

I would definitely recommend taking in a picture. I'd also go in for a few regular haircuts with the stylist before looking for a radical change: the stylist doesn't know you yet, she doesn't know what cowlicks you have or how your hair responds to different products, what kind of curls it might do, etc.
I love my stylist, but it's taken me over a year for me to feel like she really knows my hair and knows what it can do. We're starting to try more daring cuts now, and I trust her implicitly when she makes her recommendations -- because she's earned that trust.

I agree with Kristen. Building a relationship with a stylist is definitely the way to go. There are stylists out there who can have someone walk into their studio off the street, and the stylist can give them the best cut in the world (for them), but they are not easy to find, that's not the norm.

I love Shannon's advice too. You're the one who has to live with the cut. You have to spend the time to make it look nice or spend the money on products or whatever. It's hard because we do put a lot of weight on our friends' and family's opinions. It's probably that they're used to seeing you a certain way, and a drastic change kind of makes them feel uncomfortable. But they'll get used to it, and probably end up liking it once it's grown on them.

Here is me any my usual bob.
http://i477.photobucket.com/al.....G_3901.jpg

Here is a picture from Ana's thread on haircuts, and this is a cut that I like. HaHa. Well maybe a little less dramatic.
http://www.hairfinder.com/hair.....ffure1.jpg

My hair was blonde as a kid, then went salt and pepper, and now comes out yellow blonde when I have it colored.
I also am on the look out for new glasses, soon.
I need an edge!!

Cute picture San! I love your shirt--is that the Bluefly faux wrap top? The blue color matches your eyes! :)

I actually like the haircut you have now, but I can see what you mean about wanting an edge. I like the haircut on hairfinder that you posted, and I think it might work for you. It's hard to tell without seeing your hair in person, but is it fine? You just have a lot of it? My hair is like that. And is your hair naturally straight? The model in the photo also has fine hair, but probably not as much of it as you have, and I would guess that her hair is naturally straight (I could be wrong though--it could just be a great blow out). It might take a bit of product, a round brush and blowdrying to get the height at the crown. And if your hair has any natural wave, it might want to stick out at odd angles. It would take some "training" of your hair to get it to lay right. It might not be a "wash and go" cut for you, but if you're willing to style it everyday, I don't think that would be a problem. A cut like the one you posted is very layered, but they are longer layers, especially in the front. For instance, the bangs on the model are longer than your bangs, so you may have to get a similar cut and let your hair grow into what you want a little bit. In the back I imagine it's tapered to the neck, and the neck is very short and clean. Also, a cut like the one on the model will highlight your jawline, mouth and chin especially. I think yours is nice looking, but you have to be comfortable spotlighting that area (I know not everyone is).

Funky specs would be great for you, too! On another thread for Sarah, Angie recommended these places in Seattle to get funky specs. She said:

See Olivia at Eye Society, Travis at Market Optical and Arlene at Ottica. These sales reps are handpicked so be sure to ask for them.

San -- I think that cut would look good on you and I think that it wouldn't be that difficult to style -- a round brush while you blow dry your hair and you are good to go. And new specs! You are going all out!

Thanks Ana. You are very good at this. I learned so much from your response.
No I don't like spotlighting attention to my mouth, jawline, and chin. A gal gave me the Victoria Beckam bob a few years ago and it was aweful on me for those reasons, and it made my head look like a bullit. Not a good look.
My hair is fine, and they say I have a lot of it. You are very astute. I do have natural wave so my hair does stick out at odd angles. You were describing my hair to a T. My head is also not so beautifully rounded in the back as I wish it were, so achieving the hieght would be a problem. I guess these are all good reasons I end up with a bob.
Well maybe I can get an edge with some good glasses frames. I will check out those places.
Thanks very much for helping me see things in a different light.
And yes that is the Bluefly shirt. The picture was taken in my back yard this summer on my 54th b-day. My eyes might look blue with that shirt on but they are really hazle.
Angie, I don't have a limit on how short I would prefer my hair, however I look masculine if I'm not careful.
Shannon, how interesting to know another person who usually hates her hair. I thought it was just me. I admired your hair in your pictures.

You're welcome, San! :)

You know, if you just want to make a small change, why don't you try the Meg Ryan haircut from "You've Got Mail?" I've actually had that haircut, and it's really cute and kind of kicky without being too edgy. Most people like it. I think that coupled with some really funky specs would be a nice contrast and give you a little bit of an edge--like a "family/friends" approved edge. :D

http://img5.allocine.fr/acmedi.....14_ph1.jpg

http://www.aolcdn.com/aolmovie.....aption-400

Meg Ryan also has fine hair, but a lot of it, and she has a curly/wavy texture. You're haircut now is very similar, but you would want to cut your layers in front a little shorter, so they taper down past your ears a little bit, and start your flip lower down too. So, I think the stylist basically does a scissor cut for the top layers, but the bottom layer of hair is what's called a razor cut. This encourages the flippiness. And your naturally wavy texture will also work to make your hair flip too (although, you might need to train it to flip the same on both sides, I'm not sure). And your bangs you would sweep more to the side, although you could probably leave them the way they are if you wanted. This would emphasize your eyes more than the other cut you posted. You'd use a larger round brush to blowdry the top, and a smaller round brush and some pomade to blowdry the flip, or else use your fingers (although, I've found a smaller round brush gets a more even flip).

Any shorter cut is going to make your chin/mouth are a bit more noticeable, but I think the flip out instead of in will be nice. It will be pointing away from that area instead of tapering into it. Does that make sense?

Yes that is cute on Meg Ryan. I know from history though that my hair will not flip properly. It's the sticking out at all angles attitude it has. That's why I always think a choppy do would work for my hair so I don't have to force it. I have every hair product the salon recommends but never feel polished.

Hmm...what do you mean by "choppy"? I thought by choppy you meant razored so it sticks out. Do you have any other photos of cuts you like/think are choppy? :)

BTW Ana that Meg Ryan haircut must be one of the copied movie haircuts. Looks great doesn't it! A hairdresser persuaded me to have my hair (shoulderlength) layered a week or so again. I thought it was this huge change but not a soul has commented on it!

I know. That's a great cut. So cute!

You should post a photo of your haircut.

I'm trying to stay awake for Daily Show, so bear with me because I'm sleepy. ;-)

San, I think you look great with short hair, and you could rock that cut you posted - easily! You would look great with any length hair - you have envious bone structure. But if short and sassy is what you want - go for it!!!

The yellow hair thing: try Aveda Blue Malva. It's designed for grey hair - I bought some for DH. But my hairdresser said it works great to keep blonde blonde (whether dyed blonde or real blonde). So I've been using it and it does wonders - takes out brassiness, brighten ups your hair, offsets any weird water issues that may be affecting hair color, etc. It's this blue colored shampoo and there's some reason adding blue helps. This is also a great tip for anyone who gets a bad dye job that's too brassy and you want to tone down the brassiness.

I also think you could go completely white or silver grey and totally rock that look!! I sometimes follow another fashion blog, and there was a post all about how to go grey gracefully if you are thinking that direction at all.

And I suspect you could even go with red too... seriously, you could pull off quite a range of options, with your coloring, bone structure, smile, etc.

As for hairstylists, I love having long relationships with stylists but either 1) I find someone I love, and he takes off for NYC and I'm stuck back at square one or 2) I stay with someone for years on end, and they get bored with me and/or I get bored with them because they get stuck thinking of me in one way and don't try anything creative.

With that said, here is what I have learned to do -

1) If you see someone with a great cut - someone who's hair is similar texture etc - ask them where they go. Yeah, even total strangers.

2) Walk in to salons and ask for on-the-spot consultations. Go with the one that you like best.

Finally (and most importantly) if you can afford it:

3) Always have the salon owner do your cut. (FYI, you don't have to tip the owner so even if he/she charges more, keep that part in mind).

I have always had the best luck when I had the salon owner do the cut. I figure they didn't become a salon owner without having already built up a following of happy clients.

(success! Daily show is on!)

Shiny's advice is great, and I agree with her wholeheartedly. By coincidence, my hairstylist owns the salon I go to, along with his wife. They are a great couple. And I found him by asking a girl I worked with where she got her hair done, because her cut was so cute, and I could tell even though it wasn't what I wanted, it was well executed, done by someone who knew what they were doing.

Bobby is going to flip out when I show him what I want tomorrow. :D

Thanks for the tip on the Aveda Blue malva Shiny.
It's incredible what others see in a person compared to what we see in ourselves. I LOVE a really good red for hair. I don't know exactly what red but some are just so beautiful and opens the door for great color combos in clothing. However I see a lot of red in my skin so always thought red hair was out of the question.
Also I don't think of myself as having much in the way of facial bone structure. It could be as I lose fat in my face with age I am showing more bone structure and just haven't realized it.
One problem I fight with my hair style is having it always go so flat on top. I've been instructed on using the lifting products and how to blow dry. As soon as I use a pomade it goes flat.
You can see from my picture that one side of my hair flips out, and the other side turns inwards, and it always has been that way. I cannot fight it. That is why I thought I should just go with it. By a choppy style I think of the one I posted from Ana's link, only for me not so long down in the eyes, but the layers are raggedy of sorts. I could blow it, use some product and let it be a bit wild.
Now I am armed with conversation for the hairstylist. Thanks.
I'm very excited to go looking for glasses frames to. With more edgy glasses working with my hair having a bit more flair and polish I will feel refreshed.
You're all great.

I have nothing further to add, but that you look utterly ADORABLE in that picture! You radiate such warmth :-). Hubby is so cute in the background.

I'm not a hair expert but feel qualified to comment on the flippy hair issue, and the flat on top issue, as I've had both, and so have my DDs. So I have come to believe that is a cut issue - not a hair issue.

San, if you can find a Vidal Sassoon salon or trained hairdresser, I highly recommend. Their philosophy is that it is all about the cut. The cuts are "precision" cuts and you should theoretically end up with a wash-and-go cut that looks great air-dryed, or blown dry without much need for product. They purposely work with your hair, not against it.

It appears to me that your hair is not really straight as a stick: it has some body and bounce and wave. Does it curl or wave more if you let it air dry?

I do think a choppier haircut will help with the flippy issue. Bobs that are blunt cuts with very little layering usually result in flippy issues and cowlicks showing up in weird places, if you have any bit of wave at all.

As Ana suggests, you might even benefit from a bit of razoring. I don't care for this on my hair because it's very fine and just ends up finer- plus grows out awkwardly. It is best for thicker hair, I think. But it could work for you. I guess I should add it has worked great - but only if the hairdresser is very judicious and razors just the front a tiny bit - and does not razor all over.

Better than razoring is when, at the end of the cut, the hairdresser goes piece by piece - that has been cut straight and even - and cuts in little nips (I have no idea what this technique is called). Sometimes they use special scissors. But it's not razoring. Ana - do you know what this is called? This is what I think gives the choppiness and makes it different than a blunt cut.

Flatness on top: if you mean at the crown, you need shorter layers in the back. Really short. This will give you more volume and height at the crown. For example the layers at my crown are about 4 inches long, and the layers underneath that are even shorter. This is what I was referring to on another thread as a "graduated" bob. It has lots of layers in the back, but is kept longer in the front. Depending on how much you angle from back to the front you get what is known as the Pob (Posh's Bob). The angling is critical and should basically follow the line of your chin, with the front part an inch or even two longer than your chin. Posh's angling is very dramatic. I've had that cut too and it's cute - but I find I need to flat iron to keep the front part straight.

If you don't angle quite so dramatically, you get what you found on hairfinder - which is nearly the same cut I have right now. I can (and frequently do) tuck behind my ears for different look too. At that length, you can go all piecey if you like - but it requires pomade or something similar applied just to the ends to funk it all up and make pieces stick out this way and that.

Another question for you: when you leave the salon, is it flipping out or perfect? If it's only when you try to duplicate back at home that the flipping starts happening, then you probably need to practice your blow drying technique. Every time I go to the salon, I watch carefully and ask numerous questions. I've slowly improved my blow drying ability over the years. Do you have a super large, round brush with metal and vents? That is the best type of brush - even for short hair, not just for long hair.

One last thing: your part. Have you every tried a more dramatic part - farther over? Or does your hair just always naturally want to part the exact same place? Or have you tried an uneven part? Uneven - i.e., a zig-zag part - are are great - especially when dyed hair starts growing out. Hides the roots and also adds some lift too.

The Meg Ryan do is adorable too and I really like that option!

Hi San, I love the first hair cut you posted and think you would rock it. It is a bit dramatic, and having that much hair in your face, might drive you crazy--but the overall cut is good.

Here are some style tips that I got from my hairdress that really work well for me. (I too have fine hair with a bit of wave to it).

Gently towel dry your hair, comb it out, and put a little styling gel (I use Pantene) in your hand. Rub it together in your hands to activate it. Then gently apply to your hair, always running your hands down your hairshaft. Don't just tossle it in, or hang upside down--the key is to keep your hands moving in a down direction. This keeps your hair from looking frizzy or like straw.

Then with a hairdryer, set on hot high, blow dry your hair w/out any styling tool, just use your fingers, running them thru your hair. But this is key---ALWAYS point the hairdryer down. Never hang upside down while drying hair--and don't hold the hairdryer under your hair pointing up. You can toussle your hair with your fingers as you dry it (this will give it a little extra body) or you can run your fingers thru your hair like a comb, for a flatter look. Stop once your hair is 98% dry.

Using a large round bristle brush, and your hairdryer on low fan, medium heat, grab the hair in small sections with the brush and direct the heat on the hair for just a few seconds. It's already dry, this is just directing your hair.

I always start with my bangs because they seem to be finish drying the fastes. If you want it to flip up, roll it up--if you want it straight roll it under, but drag it out at the ends, and if you want it curled under, then hold the dryer over the end of the hair while it's in the barrel of the brush. Do this section by section (it only takes about 1 or 2 minutes because your hair is already dry).

Final step-- w/the round brush, grab a section of hair at the crown of your head. Wrap the hair around the brush (rolling it towards the back of your head), like you're wrapping it in a curler. Direct the heat on the brush for a few seconds, and then move forward and repeat. You should be able to do from the crown to the front in 3 sections. Now run your hands thru the top of your hair--(you can even tease the crown if you want a little extra fullness on top.)

And one final tip--if your hairdryer has a "cool" setting--use it to finalize the position of your hair. It's actually the cooling process that "sets" our hair. The heat makes it maleable, and when it cools down, it holds the position. That's how I get my end flips to stay in all day.

I know this sounds like a long process, but it takes me about 7 minutes and my hair is much longer than yours. That's one good thing about fine hair--it dries quickly.

Thanks ladies. I have learned an immense amount of information here and have a new interest in getting my hair spiced up and some great new glasses. I will look for a Vidal Sassoon hair stylist. I haven't been to one in years. My hair does have quite a bit of wave on it's own, now if I could jst get a structured cut to work with it. For those who live in the Puget sound region I have been going to Gene Juaraz, and Gary Manual for years and I think they teach their own methods of cutting.
Thanks for the hair drying techniques. They are all vey helpful!
Also, if I did have the haircut I posted, it would have to be modified and not be in my face. That would drive me batty.

My favorite stylist is in the Seattle area, but I can't find anything but her personal number. I will try to locate her for you, San. She is incredible. She would sit me in the chair and give multiple suggestions. I never batted an eye at giving her the check because I always loved my look. She understands face shape and personality well. Her name is Rosaline Rogers in case she's listed in the white or yellow pages. Last I knew, she did work in both Kirkland and Gig Harbor.
When I have time I will have to post photos of the looks she created for me. She did most of her training in Los Angeles under the creator of the Sebastian line.

Fantastic Sarah, Gig Harbor is near where I live.
I'd love to see photos of your hair styles she created.

Okay, here are some photos. No laughing at the clothes. :) Some of you might recognize a few of the locations, like Leavonworth and Hurricane Ridge.
http://letitrainagain.blogspot.....r-san.html

Sarah you are so beautiful. That bride portrait is really wonderful.
Rose has done some outstanding styles for you. I am amazed that you had a stylist that changed it up for you rather than getting stuck in a rut. I hope I can find her. Your hair cuts are incredible! Love it. Just what I want, some imagination and creativity. She went from structured to soft and curly. Over what span of time are these pictures taken? If Rose is still in Gig Harbor it will be truly meant to be for us! HaHa! I'll look for Rosaline Rogers. I'll let you know what I find. It feels good to be so excited about getting my hair done.

Just wanted to say that you look breathtaking in your wedding photo Sarah.

By the way, I saw nothing in the way you were dressed pre YLF to be embarassed about. You looked awsome in every picture. You are very photogenic. Do you have a close friend who is a photographer? The pictures looked more well done than the average.

My sister (the one in the red dress) is very artistic and takes good photos without any training. My wedding photographer was out of this world amazing.
San, the photos are taken in the span of about two years.

Sarah, please tell me again who your wedding photographer was. I want to keep them in mind for family portraits.