BC, interesting point that I had not thought of...

Ladies, thanks goes to you for NOT letting this thread get ugly despite the enormous emotion and passion that fuels the subject matter. I didn't need to moderate it once - and I'm impressed.

As an EU National, I cannot vote in the US. But I am deeply, deeply sad and disappointed about what is happening in a very divided America. Seattle has become my home, and it is very hard to focus on anything else but the politics of the county right now.

I think it's wise to be careful when commenting on another country's political choices, even when I'm bewildered by the outcomes. But, as a Canadian, I have to confess I'm finding it hard to reconcile the sheer meanness of what Isabel and others have described here with the Americans--Republicans and Democrats alike--who I've come to know over the years. We have healthy debates about the value of gun ownership, refugees, and universal health programs, but not one of those Americans I know would yell a racist remark at a child or tell an elderly woman to "go back home".

I know passions are running high, but I think I need to gain a better understanding of those who saw Trump as a better choice than Clinton--only minus the vicious name-calling, vitriol, and vindictiveness. I refuse to lump the YLFers and other Americans i've come to cherish as friends who may have voted for Trump with those despicable individuals who would bully another person because background or religion.

Hard to imagine a YLFer being so crass or scary! Hehe. But I can't imagine many Americans who attack others on the basis of race, dress, language, etc. consort much with 'foreigners.' Or travel that much. Not that it would make a difference. Plenty o' people in my life use the N word still. And such folks get interviewed on radio, so I mean, we know they're out there. My fave was a guy in New Orleans that NPR interviewed. He was polite about it, mind.

There was a lot of false news this election cycle (I.e., Facebook). People actually believe seriously wild stories (for example, that the Clintons have killed people). Really. And it played a role in how people voted. A constant bombardment of rumors, fueled by extreme right-wing fanatics did indeed influence people. I know some of them. I had to stop talking politics in order to maintain friendships and relationships. I am dreading the holidays.

I'm surprised people follow stuff like that online...aren't they afraid of a certain investigative bureau?

Aquamarine - I have had to make a point to not talk politics with certain family and friends this year, and I will be continuing to abstain this holiday season.

Rachylou, I don't hear that word, except in music and comedy.

Aquamarine, I didn't hear much of the really out there stuff, but maybe it's because my Facebook friends are so homogenized politically. It's liberal to lefty, mostly. One or two relatives are the exception, and their kids respond to them.Of course, it's easier to demonize, or at least not understand, others, if you don't have contact.

Delurked, that sounds like a plan. I remember being a much younger new guest in someone's home and I just walked out of the room when some comment was made. The man was in his late 80's or 90's, and if I had to leave everyone I was with would have had to leave. I couldn't believe no one else said anything.
On the other hand, when I was maybe 11, my maternal grandmother flew home early because I challenged her.

By "n" word, do you mean "Neo-Nazi"? That's the worst epithet I can think of right now, and it seems to be showing up in the media more and more these days.

2016, you are just the Worst Year Ever. I can't wait until you're OUT OF HERE! And please take all the bad things you brought with you.

The one with two g's...

I was pretty sure that was the one you meant, rachylou, I was just using your comment as a springboard for my little editorial comments.

It is often said that apathy is the opposite of love.

I have been following what is now called the alt right for about ten years. Beginning after I read the book "Them" by Jon Ronson. They have always existed...it just behooved them to stay underground. Thus the Reddit 4 and 8 chan threads and the dark net ( the whole Pepe the Frog people). Now they are having parties at hotels in DC. Trump legitimized them and has given them safe harbor in our society. In fact, it is a place to thrive. Neo Nazi is an apt name.

My point in all this is that they didn't make this happen : the people who can overlook it, have. Apathy made this happen. Apathy married power to this man and this movement.

I would like to gently point out that no one I know who voted for him has admitted he is a racist and a hate monger and they really don't care. Not one has spoken out about the hate crimes. Instead they are telling people to "get over it" and stop "crying".

Peace.

Gaylene, it is always helpful , I think , to get perspectives from a distance. : )

Thanks, Isabel. As I said, I'm hesitating to comment even though what you've described isn't about politics as much as it is about the lowest form of human behaviour. One doesn't "get over" hatred directed at innocents.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed decent people, regardless of how they voted, won't cower and stay silent in the presence of racism and bigotry. I also try to remember throughout history the United States has shown itself to be a nation which has an uncanny way of ultimately getting it right, even if finding the path isn't always straightforward. That, in my books, is what makes it a great nation.

..

I've been following this thread closely. There have been many news reports of thr overt racism that goes on. What I see is far more subtle. Persons of color are always expected to overlook the subtleties.

It is the apathy the lack of empathy. The dismissive tone which we are faced with everyday. Yet and still we as persons of color continue to soldier on. President Obama had many obstructions in his way. Called every name under the sun and so was his wife. The almost perfect couple but like all presidents with his own faults.

President elect Trump encited encouraged hate. The speeches and the cabinet he is building is scary. Yet I shall not be afraid. He us being treated by some like the 2nd coming.

The disrespect shown to our current president vs our president elect is like living in the twilight zone.

For me it's almost like living in 3 separate world's.

My very all male all Caucasian professional environment. Where I got moved from traveling an 1 1/2 hrs to work to almost 3hrs each way for my benefit. (Being pregnant ) Intresting being the only woman and person of color.

To my very mega church most of whom are glad the racism which was always just subtle enough has been really opened up. We are not in the days of Dr. Martin Luther King. We will not protest peacefully. If we are hurt or injured. We rally we fight back. That is our truth.

To the media who spotlight their own viewpoints. Everthing is slanted. The presumption that Hilary would win and that everything was okay.

My truth is this. This country has always been devide. Yes, there are some commonalities but you will never experience what is is like being a person of color unless you take the time to really listen and empathize. Then you will never know the fear of getting pulled over by the police. You will never see what it is like when you and your children have to have lessons on how to respond when pulled over. Even then when you do comply you are still murder. It hurts my heart to see our young people be taught to Arrive home alive.

My good good friend was chased with his elerdy mom in the car this last week. He was chased by one crazed man of European origin. He was beat with a tire iron. He even made the local news before his jaw is to be wired shut after being broken in 3 places.

This is not just about politics it is about a deep and wounded divide. The only thing now it that it is every minority is on the outs not just blacks. That is a very uncomfortable feeling.

I said I was not going to comment. I'm proud of this "blog" I find it truly a safe space. I find myself feeling a certain way. I've served my country from 1993 until 2003 and to still be called out of name because of the color of my skin. Or to be avoided at work because of a certain guilt that is obviously guilt. Or to just be able to see different sides of a truth.

It is a very interesting thing. America is shocked as a whole. But my rose colored fashionable glasses were never on. Now America is maybe feeling what was always under its surface for the past almost 500 years.

I try to have a positive attitude. I try to remember that we all cannot be grouped into categories. We are all individuals. I'm willing to be open to Trump. Despite all the problems and protest he is still 5he president elect of This United States.

I lived In the ghetto for 15 years. It was a black ghetto that turned Hispanic in my last year there. Anyways, one Super Bowl Sunday, someone called the cops. Guess someone else's super bowl party was too loud for them. The cops came to my apartment by mistake. The cop who pounded on my door like he was gonna break it down had his gun drawn. You could see his internal conflict warring with that gun when this little Asian and very starchy proper girl answered the door. I think that said it all.

I'll add his partner was a woman. I will always wonder if he'd have drawn his gun had she not been with him, but also if I should be grateful she was - because she was following at a much more leisurely and unexcited pace, NOT feeding into that hyperness.

It is REALLY hard to get this stuff unless you live it, live in a place and headspace where the law is lawless.

And you better believe when my dd came to live with me, I made her practice out loud how to talk when approached by a cop. I said, 'You say it for me - Sir, yes, sir.' (We don't say sir and ma'am in CA, let me tell you, so it's SURREAL). In fact, when she started school (she walked), she was stopped by one almost immediately. He was so impressed, he went to the &&$#! principal to praise her. Disgusting really. Stopping a child. Even that praise was racist.

My thanks to everyone contributing to this thread. My gratitude to Ledonna, Isabel and rachylou for sharing painful stories.

I have so many thoughts and feelings and they come down to, now is the time to act. Or a more darkly humorous take on it from twitter:

how to identify fake news (because if truth doesn't matter we really are lost):

https://www.pastemagazine.com/.....g-the-f.html

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxlVUIMWIAAug4G.jpg

also check snopes.com

how it spreads:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11.....id=tw-nyti

http://wpo.st/h0yF2

https://www.washingtonpost.com.....i-think-do

a deeper dive: http://www.mtv.com/news/295502.....re_twitter

specifically on the election: https://www.buzzfeed.com/craig.....n-facebook?

---------

On talking with friends and family who voted differently than you over thanksgiving. (The short answer may seem to be 'don't' but if not their friends and loved ones, who else can start this conversation?):

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11.....r-way.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11.....anksgiving.html

http://www.slate.com/articles/.....tives.html

And on how to fight hate crimes (in general)
https://www.splcenter.org/2010.....onse-guide

both the Southern Poverty Law Center and now Pro Publica (an investigative journalism non profit) work on keeping tallies and accurate records of hate crimes.

Great information. Thank you, rabbit.

LeDonna, Your post really struck a cord with me. You of course are right. We don't understand. A "friend" called me, who voted for him, called me very upset the day after the election. Her black best friend ended their relationship. It struck me that I, as a white immigrant with perfect English, can go out into the USA and no one knows about me. But POC can't leave their color at home.

It made me think of the slaves and the Jews during the Holocost. They maintained such dignity. YOU maintain such dignity. Rosa Parks maintained such dignity. HOW ? I think of Rosa Parks every single day.

While Native Americans are being sprayed with water in sub freezing conditions , Nazis were having a celebratory conference in DC "hailing" him with the Nazi salute. While he went on another Twitter rant about the cast of Hamilton, he has remained silent on the KKK and Nazi celebrations in cozy restaurants.

Rabbit, thank you for all that. I am no longer willing to have a conversation. It is past that for me. I have had many conversations since the election ( and before ) and not one person who has voted for him has decried their impact on our country. Not one of his supporters is decrying the KKK rally in his honor or the Nazi "conference" this weekend where part of the discussion panel was "are Jews people ?". Luckily, at our Thanksgiving table, one mixed with immigrants, disabled people and Amerians ( and our American born dogs ) , we are all in agreement. No, our dogs are NOT AT the table ! But they will get a treat. It IS thanksgiving after all !

LeDonna, it may not mean much, but I will fight like all get out to make sure your baby grows up in a country where discussions of which race is human and which isn't , will not be tolerated. I am sorry. You have fought for us, literally. I will gladly do it for you ( figuratively ) .

I give thanks for this amazing shelter in the storm that is YLF !!!! I give thanks for my sisters here. And I give thanks that we have not lost our free speech.

XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Rabbitt thank you for the wonderful information you have provided. I am reading now. I guess the story is not painful but disappointing that it still has to be told.

RachyLou what a story unbelievable but, believable. You taught you daughter right better to be safer and yes it is still racist. I grew up when we still had upper middle class neighborhoods. I was spoiled because My dad was in the service. Then I joined the service. I never experienced even a touch of racism until I got out into the real world. My rose colored glasses started to come off then. Oh to be young gifted, insulated and ignorant to the ways of the real world.

Isablel I hate to say it because I am neither a fan of Hillary Clinton either but, Unfortunately I feel that Trump is a product of American hate and and fear and Ignorance.

The worst part of everything is those who stay silent for obvious reasons that Isabel has stated so passionately.

One of my greatest fears was bringing a child into this world. Because of things like all of this. So many many things that a person of color has to be do and say. So many expectations and can be almost perfect like Michelle Obama or a Great Couple like the Obama's but still be judged and put down just because of fear. Now we have Trump and his wife 3rd or 4th. I don't understand but it is not for me to understand or make sense of. I think about how we will raise our child to be whatever he or she wants to be but at the same time. I know that there will come a day when we will have "the Talk"

How to handle yourself while you are out.
How to act if approached
How to drive and how to reach for your wallet
The Yes Sir and No Mam of it all
To wait to question until your parents or a lawyer arrives
To steer clear of certain areas and or parts of town.
To not be confrontational

I remember growing up and my parents instilling in me the "You are representing your People, People of Color" We were brought up with the understanding that we needed to do be excel not just in the military family way but just in general. When I left the military fold it was interesting seeing the real world slowly but surely. You have to find the goodness and the kindness in this world. People want change and they want to work. We want the middle class back and not just the working poor. I've learned not to group all people together but at the same time I've learned to always keep my eyes open to my truth.

For years I've thought Canada and the States shared more commonalities than differences, but, after reading this thread, I'm starting to think Rachylou may be right in saying the Americans with whom I've associated over the years (and the lovely women on YLF!) have given me a skewed impression of the country as a whole. This thread has been a real eye-opener and has given me lots to think about.

Ledonna, what happened to your friend is horrendous and shocking and horrible.

Thanks for the articles Rabbit. I've read some so far, and the link inside the link to the

Macedonian teens generating fake pro-Trump stories for money had me incredulous. There is a lot to ponder in the articles you linked to. I have used up all my free articles for some of those newspapers so I have to decide whether to subscribe to them or not.

Isabel, Ledonna, and Rachylou, thanks and sorry for your examples of what you have lived through. It makes me sick. Ledonna, I think you are right that a lot of this is just coming to the surface so more people see it. I think it was on another thread that I mentioned that my brother had to have the "talk" more than once already with my nephew who was adopted from Guatemala, as he has already been singled out.

Ledonna, I think the fact that we keep on bringing children into the world is one of the things I like best about humanity. I remember people wondering how we could bring children into a world with the atom bomb. Or with climate change. Or any many of other things. But we keep hoping that things will improve, and we keep bringing children into the world.

Isabel, I can't yet put my finger on what about the Jews and the Holocaust and dignity bugged me a little, I guess I have never found it dignified. But the partisans who fought impress me, and the way people rebuilt their lives afterwards is astonishing. Of course, many of the survivors refused to talk about it at all until they were quite old and they wanted to tell it before they died as a warning.

One thing I see as hopeful is people speaking up, and also writing about all of this. And I have started to receive information via emails and Facebook about action steps to take.

Gaylene, I think a lot of us didn't know how many people were still racist, etc. here. We knew about it more when I was growing up. But there also has been progress. I think one of the biggest problem has been lack of outcry in the past when there should have been. And it is still hard to know how to be heard.

Past time to head to bed.

Actually, you know, when I first went to Canada to visit family, I was really surprised to see women wearing the full face veil. That is really not done here in the USA, in my experience, even in California. It's usually against the law to wear a mask, with the law ignored for little children on Halloween. My thought was this stems from our history of 'masked outlaws', the Wild West and all that. I marked that as a real difference...

Also wanted to add: our law, as in lawmen, are quite something else. I watched a new documentary on Bonnie and Clyde. They were, right, a notorious criminal duo who went killing and bank robbing during the Depression, but also were and are great American folk heroes. Watching this new documentary, well - those lawmen who got them just decided to get together on the side of the road and shoot until nothing was left. I think this is why Bonnie and Clyde are beloved. Our archetypal lawman is a dangerous, dangerous thug. A viper. A criminal with a badge. I don't know if other Western countries quite have this same problem.