https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Wed, 10 Jun 2026 02:10:49 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14439 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:28:07 +0000 Angie 14439@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Hold your pretty head up high, Tanya. We are going to integrate a highly sophisticated look into your style that will really get the comments going – in the best possible way. I’m glad you feel supported Sunshine. You deserve it :-D<br /> ( Ana's smiley) </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14356 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 03:58:16 +0000 Tanya 14356@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I am going to repeat myself here, but I can not thank you enough for all your support.</p> <p>That particular comment came from a female coworker who I just believe suffers from her own body insecurities. In general almost all other than one came from females. I do not view it as harassment, more as an annoyance. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I can deal with it fine, I just do not have to like it. Funny thing, I became sort of friends with woman in question, I have spent hours and hours helping her with homework and even went shopping with her once or twice to help her pick some stuff. She has never said anything mean since. </p> <p>In general while those comments bothered me, I was more worried that everyone was thinking the same way as opposed to those particular people saying that. I am bad with comebacks too so I could not say anything back. </p> <p>I haven't heard anything like that in a long time and I think that by now I am accepted for who I am. I am still walking that fine line, and making sure not to go overboard, e.g. I'd never wear pencil skirts in the lab. </p> <p>I did not mean to paint the wrong picture of having to listen to that stuff every day. I referenced those comments because it is often that I fear that's what people that do not know me will think at the beginning when they meet me which I want to avoid, particularly at the conference. </p> <p>I am deeply touched at how caring all of you are here and how many came to my defense. My gratitude is immense. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14335 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 02:12:23 +0000 shiny 14335@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>How about, "Somebody must've missed the mandatory workplace sexual harrassment course, hmmm???"</p> <p>Really, that comment is just so out of line, and I believe it is actionable, whether from coworker or boss. </p> <p>I came into the workforce before all of that - I remember working in a manufacturing company and being the only woman in management, walking through the factory wearing my red power suit (complete with shoulder pads!!) and pantyhose and high heels, with all the snap-on calendars and cat-calls surrounding me. And you just choked it up and dealt with it. You'd think things would've changed for younger women today.</p> <p>Tanya, it's not you. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14312 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 01:38:12 +0000 Ana 14312@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Quite right Antje, I apologize. </p> <p>Hmm....I can't come up with anything either. Maybe, "intentionally slovenly person with no manners." </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14304 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 01:20:10 +0000 Antje 14304@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>With respect to the comebacks: I love a good comeback, but I wonder if we could come up with something that doesn't reference homeless people and "use" them to make a case about style. Something in that doesn't sit well with me, I haven't quite put my finger on it, but somehow it feels disrespectful. I tried to think of a good word to describe a sloppy slovenly dresser but couldn't find one - the non-native speaker challenge at work Maybe someone else has an idea. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14297 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 00:50:24 +0000 Nicole 14297@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Or you coud tell them to stop looking at your body and then call them a perv. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14272 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 22:06:14 +0000 Ana 14272@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Sihaya, thank you for posting that story--beautifully written! </p> <p>This whole thread has been really inspirational for me personally, thank you for starting it Tanya.</p> <p>I thought of another comeback for whoever made the comment about your clothing screaming, "Look at my body." You could say, "at least my clothes don't scream, 'I'm a homeless person.'" Hee hee. "Here's a dollar, you obviously need it more than I do."</p> <p>Sorry, I couldn't help myself. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14206 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:56:56 +0000 Anonymous 14206@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>As a former construction worker I know what it feels like to not fit in and be sick to the stomach, to work very hard and take the job seriously only to always feel you are 'between a rock and a hard spot'. I do feel for you Tanya.<br /> You have some sage advice here on this forum. I know you will come out the winner because a person with all of your talents and personality just can't lose. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14197 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:44:14 +0000 Patience 14197@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Sihaya, I loved hearing your story.</p> <p>Tanya, I think one thing to stress is that as hard as it may be, if you stick with dressing well, people will get used to it and even come to expect it even if they think negatively of it. And if you're already doing it when you meet new people they will automatically consider your style part of who you are which it is.</p> <p>While you can't actually say Brendan's brilliant comeback you can still be assertive and say something that will let people know that you won't tolerate cattiness. If they talk behind your back, really who cares? </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14195 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:42:57 +0000 Tanya 14195@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Dear Sihaya, thank you so much for the wonderful post, it means the world to me.<br /> I appreciate your phone talk offer, although I do not think it is necessary for me right now, but it's s very nice indeed.</p> <p>It looks that a lot of people have some version of these issues, so it's not as uncommon as I thought. I guess just my environment ( one of the nerdiest universities in the world) contributes a lot. But I am dealing with it, it's just very annoying. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14170 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:35:13 +0000 Sihaya 14170@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Tanya - I was at a day long work thing yesterday and I'm sorry I didn't jump on this thread earlier. I want to offer you my support. And, since I'm a coach by living, I also want to offer you the option to talk by phone if you'd like (obviously completely free of charge) if you think that will help. However, in this thread, I think the best way I know to offer support is to share my story and those of others in similar positions to yours. </p> <p>Firstly, I have been through this personally myself. All the words you said people say to you, they said to me. Before starting my second career I was in the sciences - both grad and under grad school. And now one of my best friends is a molecular biologist and one of my clients is a PI. </p> <p>Let me start with my friends: the molecular biologist still does some work on the bench and she does dress down but not shabby for them and is quite polished in non bench situations. Her style isn't as dramatic as mine but she's sophisticated, polished, and well put together. The PI is one of the best dressed women I know. She is always in a new outfit, super well put together, uses lots of color and color combinations, makeup, and jewellery, high heels, and even paints her fingernails. She is the youngest PI in her facility so it's not that she's super established in her career yet. One caveat, it does help that the director of her lab is also female and is generally well put together though not on the same planet as her. </p> <p>As for my story - when I first started working, I was the only technical woman. After about 5 years of my career, due to a comment that a colleague made (well intentioned), I had a huge a-ha moment. I realized that I'd just spent 5 years of my life trying to be a man. I dressed, behaved, talked like them to the point that I had really assimilated into their culture but that I hadn't distinguished myself from them. And, the fact is, that I'm *not* a man. No matter how hard I try, I can never be one of them. That's when I vowed to be authentic and true to myself no matter the cost. On the dressing front, I first started by finding a small piece here or there, usually an accessory that was "me" - brightly colored, unique piece, dramatic. And I started getting some small compliments on the earrings or shoes I wore. On the flip side I had a boss who once told me at a meeting "those are the ugliest shoes I've ever seen" - and these would be a pair that all of you would consider attractive! I just chose to ignore his comment and keep wearing those shoes. The perfect comeback that I thought of later that night was: "there's no accounting for bad taste, is there?". Slowly then, I started buying signature clothing items that stood out and called out the fact that I was different and a woman (I *never* wore revealing clothes though). After a while, I had another boss comment that I was the best dressed person on the team - and in a nice way. By this time I had already established my credibility through the *results* of my work. So I did have the luxury of spending some crediblity dollars on being myself. If I had to do it over again though I would start being me from day one so people could get used to that and not wasted 5 years of my life miserable trying to channel the opposite gender! </p> <p>Even after all that, I was still acutely conscious of the time wasting comments you mention. I used to act in theater and found myself sneaking out for rehearsal and then working late at night afterwards. Even though I put in more hours and results than the rest of them combined sometimes, I wasn't comfortable telling them about my theater work for fear of exactly what you're saying. Till after a couple of years when I realized I was doing the same thing and made a fresh pledge to be authentic. And guess what - it all worked out fine. The promotions still kept coming and I was now able to fully "come out" so to speak and live life large and authentically. </p> <p>Interestingly enough, as an executive coach, I work with many extremely senior men and women and my experience is that most people struggle with some flavor of this issue - even the men! It may not be in how they dress, but in some way shape or form, so many people are looking for ways to fit in, gain more credibility, gain approval, and acceptance. It seems to be part of what makes us human. And those who are most successful are the ones who have figured out how to take a stand that honors themselves - while there might be short term pain, they have gained the long term respect of their colleagues. </p> <p>I'm sorry I've written on and on but this is a topic that I have *lived* all my life and a place where I believe in helping others. Net net, I would say: find ways to be yourself underneath it all - and you choose (instead of them telling you) what you want to show and not show of yourself. Find at least one small way in which to express who you are and then slowly build up on it. One sophisticated, classy, and authentic step at a time. It may not seem like it at the time, but if you know what you're doing technically, you will shine through and people will learn to accept you for who you are over the long haul once you have your foot in the door. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14167 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:31:10 +0000 Tanya 14167@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thanks for the support everyone!</p> <p>Nicole, you are so funny. I laughed for 5 minutes without being able to stop , I almost started crying. Those are cool. Anyway, to answer your questions, the comments were made mostly by peers (female)and statement about the shopping time was made by the my research boss. Male peers sometimes compliment me ( e.g when I'm wearing something unusual,like a dress) but mostly say nothing although it did came out in some conversations then at last one of them thought I am too interested in fashion. No other teachers ever said anything. and I tend to get a lot of compliments from the ladies in the administrative support.</p> <p>Thanks for the support Mirah and Jennifer. The catty comments from female peers I can live and deal with pretty fine, although they are still annoying. I am more concerned about what in general my bosses and higher-ups think since I do not want not be taken seriously. </p> <p>Antje, I do not know yet if I'll have to buy something, but I'd rather avoid it. I've looked through some stuff last night and I will finish tonight and post pictures, so we'll see. At worst I might run to BR or ATL for a short-sleeved white button-down shirt. The only Limited in the area is out of reach, since it requires a car I do not have to get there. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14163 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:37:28 +0000 Jenniferblue 14163@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Tanya, Can I offer you one more theory about your situation? It sounds so much like the "Mean Girls" social situation that happens to adolescent girls here in the U.S.. There are lots of ways of it being played out but basically a group<br /> of girls closes ranks and makes a choice about admitting someone to the group.<br /> If the group approves of the girl,and this could have to do with the way they dress, what sports they play, how attractive they are, they get to remain in the group. It's horrible and painful but unfortunately happens all the time here in the states. Since your cultural background is different, prehaps more formal,maybe you aren't aware of this practice. I hate to drag something in that might not apply to you but it sure sounds like it. Women who grew up in the U.S. are very aware of this treatment and everyone has experienced it. (I think). Maybe this is what is happening. Any comments from people who grew up and went through their teen years in other cultures might help. I've heard that it's different elsewhere. Sorry this has nothing to do with your outfit choices for the conference. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14157 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 06:20:46 +0000 Antje 14157@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Tanya, one more thought - if you're considering buying something new for the conference, have you considered the Limited? I don't shop there myself, but I think they have some decent basics that are more understated (thanks Angie, it's indeed a much better word!) at okay prices. I'd also check out ATL for a light short-sleeved summer jacket; I still think a jacket would be good, at least for the dinner (over a sleeveless shell/top.) </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14152 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 05:42:09 +0000 mirah 14152@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I just found this thread and only wanted to chime in my support... Tanya.. I totally know and experience what you mean and had the exact same reaction as Ana on reading ..to hell with them! I also dress up and my workplace, though business casual is downright 'dowdy' , so I get the sneers and catty comments behind my back all the time too. Blending in is anyways hard when you are extraordinary So be who you are...wear whatever you are comfortable with.. Its true that being in a scientific(read: serious poker face) field you need to put up a certain dress code but your style is already polished so you dont need to make any compromise in my opinion. A few years down the line when you walk down to accept the Nobel prize in that gorgeous black Versace (was it??) gown..you will be the trendsetter, the world over! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14142 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 03:21:31 +0000 Ana 14142@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Lol @ "Scientists do it in the lab" Nicole. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14140 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 03:06:43 +0000 Dani 14140@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Wow, Tanya. I am sorry you are experiencing such a dilemma. I don't have any personal experience to offer (I worked in finance and dressing up was completely accepted if not encouraged), but I wanted to echo everyone else and lend my support. I'm sure you will be able to come up with an outfit that balances your field's lack of interest and discouragement of fashion with your innate sense of style. You have such a gift for color and combinations. I see this as possibly a challenge you will have to face continually in your career (until you're so successful that you can be your own boss). It will be nice to come up with a new "uniform" that you will be able to build upon in the future. I think you're headed in the right direction and have a good start </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14139 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 03:03:33 +0000 Nicole 14139@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I've been avoiding this thread because I have not had the time to read all the way thru it. </p> <p>First of all, the people who say such nasty things to you...are they your peers or your teachers/bosses? If they are your peers, then they are jealous and just looking for a way to take you down a few notches. Don't let them. If they are your teachers and bosses, then they should be able to qualify their statements. </p> <p>I know that does not help you much in your quest for what to wear to the conference. How many outfits do you need to put together? Maybe deaccessorizing will tone down some of your more favorite outfits? Omit the jewlery and maybe not wear your hair down. Also, if the men will be wearing jeans, then why can't you? Trust me, geeky scientist men are not going to know the difference between a pair of $200 premium jeans, and a pair of $50 Gap jeans.</p> <p>I'm sorry I'm not more help. My initial reaction was to tell you to have a bunch of shirts made up with fresh sayings...like "My Other Outfit is Stylish" and "Scientist do it in the Lab".... </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14138 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 02:58:16 +0000 Tanya 14138@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Hi Lena and welcome! Thank you so much for your support ! I am so touched that you decided to delurk for this particular purpose.</p> <p>I know exactly what you mean, whenever I tried to seriously dress down I felt worse (I went through that phase last summer). Anyway, I'll continue the struggle to walk that fine line. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post/page/2#post-14137 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 02:53:10 +0000 Lena 14137@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Hi, Tanya. I'm new to the forum, but a long-time lurker. This discussion about fashion and academia touched a nerve and I delurked to offer my support to you. I understand what you're talking about: I was in graduate school in economics, and my mother is in biology (labwork and teaching). Don't let slobs get to you. I realize it's extremely hard to deal with this attitude, but please, try to ignore them as much as you can. I myself felt pretty blue about finding things to wear and trying to walk than fine line you mention. But I felt even worse when I forced myself to "dress down down" (I went to grad.school in a hippie town). When you dress well, you feel good about yourself and about your work, you have more energy, etc. Moreover, I've always admired women in science who dress well. </p> <p>Good luck to you. I'm sure ladies on this forum will have loads of good advice. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post#post-14133 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 02:35:53 +0000 Angie 14133@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>How about the word “understated” instead of bland? </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post#post-14131 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 02:32:54 +0000 Tanya 14131@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thanks Antje! I am off to look at my pieces now. The pants and shirt you mentioned could definitely work. and I have that printed top in cream too - even more bland! The cord jacket is going to be too hot for 90 degrees though. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post#post-14104 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 23:15:19 +0000 Antje 14104@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Tanya, I looked back through some of your albums and see some pieces that seem less trendy and colorful, a bit more "bland" (though that's hardly the case with anything in your wardrobe! I just couldn't find a better word) and definitely polished. E.g. would these work (sorry, no combinations, just individual pieces):</p> <p>Bottoms:<br /> 7/2: Theory Max C striped caramel/cream pants. These look like a great basis to start from.</p> <p>Tops:<br /> 6/20: Express white ruched shirt<br /> 6/16: Ny&#38;Co print cummerbund top</p> <p>Jackets:<br /> Week of 4/14 (Monday): H&#38;M cream cord jacket </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post#post-14091 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:17:49 +0000 Ola 14091@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>We shall be your personal cheering squad Tanya!</p> <p>I think wearing conservative colours may do the trick, you shouldn't need to give up your wrap tops and other items you like. I think choosing items that aren't brightly coloured may prevent you from getting that negative attention and then your personality and skill can shine through and impress the pants off everyone. Well, not literally. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post#post-14090 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:17:34 +0000 Tanya 14090@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>First I'd like to say how deeply touched I am by fir all of your support. I really can not find the right words right now to express how I feel. OK,here's comes a long string of replies:</p> <p>Shiny, very sweet of you to run this by your DH. I did run it by my BF, but he is subjective since he is my BF. I do work at the bench tough, which requires the most casual clothes While I am aware of the risk of ruining clothes, I do wear a lab coat over them, refuse to look like I about to garden on the field and if something gets ruined, oh well. I did ruin quite a few pants with bleach, but that's life. But his opinion exactly shows the typical norms in this setting. As for later, I don't know what I'll do yet, but the last thing on Earth would be to go on the road of tenured professorship, which would require all the presentations and stuff he's describing. Strangely, I'd like to do research but in some setting where I do not have to be the leading person ( we call this PI). Maybe a research job in industry, we'll see. For the conference, I agree with him exactly. And thanks again for the commiseration.</p> <p>Ana, I like the way Brendan thinks. I am awful with comebacks myself, and even if I thought of something snappy I would never dare to say it ( I am your typical dreaded ISFJ personality).</p> <p>Angie, thanks for the kind thoughts/invitation to others. I will start another thread on possible outfits with some of the pieces I already have some evening this week.</p> <p>Julie, I agree with you, some twist on that outfit on 5/7 is pretty much what I have in mind. And that one was for a presentation in front of my department.</p> <p>Patience, thanks for the support as well. Of course I am not misinterpreting your words. Unfortunately, that statement about too much time to shop was told to me by my boss and was meant to criticize me about finding time to do anything else another than work - I should not do anything than work in my awake hours in his opinion.</p> <p>Judy, Shiny and Becky thanks again. Shiny unfortunately my boss does not see it as a good thing -quite the opposite. </p> <p>Anyway, to sum this all up, thank you all very much for all of your support. I refuse to change anything about how I dress on my daily basis - by now it wouldn't change anybody's opinion about me here anyway and it's currently the only type of outlet - like a mini hobby if that does not sound pathetic -that I have. I am used to living with all the negative comments anyway. For a future job I will adapt to whatever the culture there is. And for the conference I want to take the advice of Angie and Shiny's DH : a bit dressed up from typical scientist attire but nothing fussy, whimsical or trendy. As I've said above, I'll start a new thread at some point about actual possible outfits.</p> <p>Thank toy all once again, you are so wonderful! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post#post-14077 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 20:24:50 +0000 Becky 14077@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Oh, Tanya. I'm so sorry for this stressful situation in which you find yourself. I echo everyone else's advice: Be yourself and live above the catty, backbiting ways of those who are jealous of your style! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post#post-14067 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:43:08 +0000 shiny 14067@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I'll add to Patience's comments by saying that your superiors may see looking put-together instead of disheveled as a sign that you CAN handle the intense pressure of grad school - without crumbling. It means you have inner resources, resilience and strength, and can go the mile - while still looking polished and fresh!! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post#post-14058 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:50:49 +0000 Angie 14058@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>You took the plan right out of my head, Ana. (ENFJ's think alike)</p> <p>This was just the injection this thread needed. Thank you Patience. Who better to speak from the heart and from experience than you. I like where this is going. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post#post-14055 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:30:26 +0000 judy 14055@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>What an interesting thread...I don't have any helpful experience to add at the moment, but I do want to add my voice of support here, Tanya...to hold your head high and feel fab as ever there...and appropriately dressed in your field...so you'll feel like you AND that you fit in. What an amazing wealth of help has come forth! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-to-wear-to-a-conference-long-post#post-14054 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:30:02 +0000 Ana 14054@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>That's a good outfit suggestion from Julie and I love the comments from Patience. </p> <p>I'm thinking it would also be helpful (not before the conference, probably) to sometime post photos of individual pieces you have that you think would be appropriate and you would feel comfortable wearing in this environment. Then, we could help you mix and match them to make new outfits, and make suggestions about shoes and accessories (if you wanted) a la Polyvore style. This way, we could start with what you already have that will work, and it might help you to figure out what to spend your money on this fall (when your shopping ban is over). </p>