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YouLookFab Forum » Topic: * https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Wed, 29 Apr 2026 17:44:30 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 <![CDATA[Search]]> q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php Eliza on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-950661 Fri, 07 Jun 2013 12:01:54 +0000 Eliza 950661@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I am fascinated. Our school district would never have allowed this and I imagine that the secretary's job could be in jeopardy. Intentions aside, the fact that this is happening at a public school event and apparently is not addressed (stopped) by the administration would take my school volunteerism in a new direction. I agree with Una that it is not a matter of all possible religions being represented. It is simply not the place for it and violates laws that have a lot of wisdom behind them in my book. Anonymous on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-948716 Wed, 05 Jun 2013 03:32:03 +0000 Anonymous 948716@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I'm sorry but WTF? I was willing to tolerate this one until I read that the secretary gives the pastor/driver the names... What? rae on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-943309 Tue, 28 May 2013 15:44:49 +0000 rae 943309@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I'm so late to this, but it is a really interesting discussion. I suspect that, if a bunch of Scientologists/Wiccans/Muslims had planned to leave literature and say they would be specifically watching someone and knew their names, the Christians would be arguing the same legalities that MaryK and others brought up. I also feel that this violates the captive-audience rule, since the students have to be there in order to get their diplomas and experience an important rite of passage. Besides that, WTF to the face that this organization knows everyone's name in the first place? Seems like the school breached the students' privacy at some point there. Really creepy.  Kari on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-942199 Sun, 26 May 2013 17:29:16 +0000 Kari 942199@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ "The pastor of the church is also the school bus driver, and the school secretary goes to his church so just gives him the kids' names." SERIOUSLY? Oh my, I'd be livid and SO uncomfortable... And when I was a senior in high school, I WAS involved in an evangelical church community. Not okay. Really with Mochi on this one: "To subtract any legal issues (which are huge, IMO), just consider how you would feel, honestly, if a bunch of Korans were being handed out T a public h.s.in the US. Or Scientology literature. I know there's a lot of well-meaning intentions associated with spirituality, but to me it's highly inappropriate. I'm not going to go into detail why I think so. And to take religion completely out of the equation, imagine someone you didn't even know handed you books or handouts on weight loss. After all, they mean well, right? Or is my analogy way off base?" Intentions may be well and good, but the way they are going about this, and in a public school, makes my skin crawl. T-Rex on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-937864 Tue, 21 May 2013 09:09:52 +0000 T-Rex 937864@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Well, this turned out to be a topical post. This time, instead of high school graduations, it's cabins on state owned property. I live in Georgia, BTW.  <a rel="nofollow" href="http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/atheists-put-books-bibles-ga-parks-19217157#.UZs5bmOnbD0">http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireS.....Zs5bmOnbD0</a> ironkurtin on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-937582 Tue, 21 May 2013 00:07:31 +0000 ironkurtin 937582@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I agree 100% with the legal argument. Emotionally, I keep thinking, would everyone be so OK with this if a local business had handed out booklets touting a wonderful career selling their product, with a note inviting graduates to come to a sales meeting saying that a representative knew their name and would be monitoring their progress personally? There is no reason why any organization, religious in nature or not, should get a pass on behavior that would be considered obnoxious if done by anyone else. DonnaF on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-937525 Mon, 20 May 2013 22:41:40 +0000 DonnaF 937525@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Religion aside, in my school district and maybe in my state, this would be a huge breach of confidentiality.  When I was a room parent, the parents had to give me their contact information; neither the teacher nor the school secretary were allowed to do so.  At the high school level, when students registered they had to opt in to receive information from and be contacted by military recruiters.  catgirl on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-937394 Mon, 20 May 2013 20:03:52 +0000 catgirl 937394@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I think Mary and I probably have the same perspective - the test is not whether others can do it or are okay with it. If it violates the letter of the law, then allowing more religions in only adds fuel to that fire. It opens a door that isn't supposed to be opened. There's definitely an element of pressure going on, since others have told m friend they agree but don't like to create conflict. Once again, thanks to each and every one for your heartfelt reasoned responses. If only the rest of the world could discuss this way... T-Rex on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-937373 Mon, 20 May 2013 19:51:08 +0000 T-Rex 937373@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ MaryK, it's possible my rambling response just above may have touched on your concerns anyway. If there are other possible issues, I for one would be interested to hear them. T-Rex on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-937370 Mon, 20 May 2013 19:49:22 +0000 T-Rex 937370@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I thought of another wrinkle which leads me to believe that even if other religions can do the same, it's still not an equal playing field. And therefore, handing out the bibles and the letters should stop. There are many religions which do not proselytize. Wiccans as a rule, do not. If you want to convert to Judaism, you have to be a pain in the behind to a rabbi until he or she relents and agrees to teach you. If I remember correctly, my friend had to ask three or four (or more?) times before the rabbi would relent. (A quick google search didn't turn up the exact number of times you have to ask...or I would be more precise.) As far as I know, Buddhists don't proselytize, either. At least none of the Buddhists I've met would ever consider doing so. And so on. So, any religion that isn't actively seeking to increase their membership is unlikely to distribute religious material at a graduation. So it's unlikely you would have a true test to see whether other religions have the same freedom as this particular church does. MsMary on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-937368 Mon, 20 May 2013 19:43:31 +0000 MsMary 937368@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Wrote a long response with a legal analysis, but thought better of it and will just say I don't think inviting or permitting all the religions in town to participate would cure the constitutional infirmity of this practice. T-Rex on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-937364 Mon, 20 May 2013 19:39:59 +0000 T-Rex 937364@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I need to clarify after re-reading the post and the responses. I'm only referring to the handing out of religious material being OK if another groups can do the same. The letters are inappropriate in any and all cases. T-Rex on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-937353 Mon, 20 May 2013 19:26:37 +0000 T-Rex 937353@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ This is legal (and OK with me personally) only if any and all other religions are allowed to do the same. If handing out a Koran or a book on Wicca, or even a book on atheism, causes everyone to have conniptions? Then their motives aren't pure, and the bible thing should stop. On the rare chance that other religions are allowed to do the same at graduation, then I would be OK with it. And I believe in that case it would be legal as well. The trouble is, you would need to get someone of another faith to test this. And there is something that feels icky about handing out information about your faith just to test the intentions of others. Then again, that's just me. Making sure this option is open to others is important, so my personal feelings would have to take a backseat to doing what is ultimately the right thing. rachylou on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-937298 Mon, 20 May 2013 18:03:28 +0000 rachylou 937298@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Eh. We-ell, the school secretary handing names to the school bus driver, and the school bus driver publicizing them to his church is heinous and unethical. And if you believe in the power of prayer, they're spiritual muggers on top of it all. On the other hand, I have to say, if my community was so small that the church pastor is the school bus driver, I would probably tolerate the "tradition." It's kinda, "Uncle Bob is being annoying again..." But boy, do I think it a stupid thing to do. Krista on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-936875 Mon, 20 May 2013 04:55:22 +0000 Krista 936875@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Wowzers. In my district, the school secretary would be breaching all KINDS of confidentiality policies by just handing over the student names to the bus driver/ church pastor.  Perhaps this is why the superintendent and principal said it would stop and then it didn't - the secretary is doing it despite orders.  This is kind of like a game of Clue; instead of Colonel Mustard in the Conservatory with the candlestick, it's the school secretary in the school office with the student files! No really, though, MaryK has a point.  I'm not sure these people should still be doing their jobs.  But the fact that they still are speaks volumes - did I not say that public schools were complex?! ironkurtin on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-936839 Mon, 20 May 2013 03:12:47 +0000 ironkurtin 936839@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I agree with MaryK.  Besides the separation of church and state, what about the privacy of school records? Adelfa on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-936759 Mon, 20 May 2013 00:43:31 +0000 Adelfa 936759@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I wouldn't like it. I believe the two ways for a public school system to be fair are to be either religiously neutral or religiously all-inclusive and I prefer the former. As a Christian, I don't want my religion to be favored because I don't want any other religion favored, either. I will teach (have taught) my children at home. Beth Ann, I love your idea of coffee with the religious leaders. But isn't the issue more what the school administration allowed to take place, rather than what one church did? My issue would be with the school, not with the church. Echo on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-936617 Sun, 19 May 2013 21:08:03 +0000 Echo 936617@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ ^ I agree with MaryK completely. MsMary on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-936211 Sun, 19 May 2013 04:19:52 +0000 MsMary 936211@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Honestly?  This should be a firing offense for both the secretary and the bus driver. Ariadne on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-936207 Sun, 19 May 2013 04:07:44 +0000 Ariadne 936207@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I'm a very religious (Christian, though universalist) person, and I find that utterly appalling. Granted, I'm extremely liberal and not at all evangelical, so that colours my opinion.  As a parent, I'd be extremely upset and would be making my opinion known.  I'd feel the same way regardless of which religion it was. Beth Ann on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-935937 Sat, 18 May 2013 20:13:51 +0000 Beth Ann 935937@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Wowza!  The church secretary is giving the names to the bus driver?  Sounds like they're used to small town informal networks, eh?  Somehow, I think school records, even names and addresses shouldn't be distributed by the secretary to pastor, bus driver, or grocer.  Of course, there's probably a list of graduates published in the local paper!  I can imagine that Alaskans need a real independent streak.  I also suspect that, when tragedy strikes, people focus on giving help where needed.   Hil on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-935914 Sat, 18 May 2013 19:11:43 +0000 Hil 935914@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I grew up in a rather fundi religious family - the kind that knock on your doors on Sunday mornings - and have found myself to be somewhat allergic to all things religious now. Whilst I can't imagine that the religious group involved here meant any harm, and the same for the people allowing it, I find such practices to be awfully patronising and unacceptable, particularly in a public school environment.  catgirl on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-935900 Sat, 18 May 2013 18:43:40 +0000 catgirl 935900@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ A litte more info from my friend... The pastor of the church is also the school bus driver, and the school secretary goes to his church so just gives him the kids' names. Beth Ann, I understand what you mean! Alaska is definitely a place where people feel strongly about their space and privacy and move to rural areas to be isolated and left alone. At the same time, there is a sense of community and interdependence required to survive (like chopping wood for elders or buying groceries for neighbors when in town). It's an odd dilemma when conflict arises. Beth Ann on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/3#post-935892 Sat, 18 May 2013 18:23:59 +0000 Beth Ann 935892@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I read in Una's second post, "Mostly they get along by leaving each other alone."  This makes me very sad, and I'm wondering if this kind of false-truce is creating an environment that makes all kinds of insensitivity and bullying possible on all sides.  It seems like there are divisions like this across religious, political, racial, and socio-economic lines all across America, and I can't believe it is maker us stronger, happier or safer. Before any threats, or counter threats, or calling on free speech or the Establishment Clause, why not contact the Church directly and open up a friendly dialogue, over coffee, perhaps?  Maybe, to misquote "Oklahoma,"  the Hippies and the Fundies could be friends?  Maybe the graduates could see adults working out differences face to face. Vicki on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/2#post-935873 Sat, 18 May 2013 17:42:07 +0000 Vicki 935873@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ You know how I feel, because I replied elsewhere.  But, to reiterate, I love what Mochi said! Kristin L on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/2#post-935796 Sat, 18 May 2013 15:17:10 +0000 Kristin L 935796@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Everyone is making great points. What is boils down to is what's in the letter and what kind of Christian church it is. My issue with it is that if it's coming from a church like my grandparents go to and the one I was raised in but no longer a part of (I was raised in a strict fundamentalist church), then I definitely am against the letters. If someone says they are praying for you in my grandparents' church, it's a nice of saying "We think you're going to Hell and you need to get up in front of the congregation and confess your sins".   If the letter is more of a loving tone, like we want the best for you and will pray for you to do well, then it's not so bad. I still don't agree with it, but I won't be so irate about it.  lynne on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/2#post-935770 Sat, 18 May 2013 14:09:57 +0000 lynne 935770@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ As a long time public school teacher, I am appalled that this is allowed to happen. Is it even legal? I'm sure the intentions were good, but there is a reason for separation of church and state. Anonymous on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/2#post-935733 Sat, 18 May 2013 11:07:51 +0000 Anonymous 935733@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I don't think it's a good idea to pass out Bibles or religious literature in a public setting, but at the same time I assume good intent and am not offended by such things. Besides the fact that most people would probably be offended, I don't see a benefit in it for anyone, and think whoever organized this didn't think things through. They didn't think of the ramifications. I personally believe you can catch more flies with honey, and that it's counter productive to do anything that would cause an uproar or offense. Seems like there are better ways to spread whatever message you're trying to spread. And this applies to all groups--not just Christians. That said, I think it's easy to overreact to such things. Then again, I'm not familiar with the organization that did this, and I don't know what their intentions are/were. deb on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/2#post-935617 Sat, 18 May 2013 03:26:31 +0000 deb 935617@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Oh MaryK, I remember that. We had many discussions about it in class. MsMary on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/what-do-you-think-of-this-situation/page/2#post-935598 Sat, 18 May 2013 03:05:25 +0000 MsMary 935598@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I cannot imagine this practice surviving application of t<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_v._Kurtzman" rel="nofollow">he Lemon v. Kurtzman test</a>.