https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Sun, 03 May 2026 19:22:09 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-257211 Sun, 28 Nov 2010 15:17:56 +0000 Louise 257211@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>There has been a general decline in manners/ respect for others over the years which I think carries over into clothes too x </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-257171 Sun, 28 Nov 2010 08:16:57 +0000 Michelle 257171@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Kari, this is a fabulous discussion and I've really enjoyed reading all the responses.<br /> I am very much among the majority of responders here and believe that dress is a sign of respect. This was strongly reinforced this past summer when I attended four weddings and encountered inappropriately-dressed guests at each and every one of them. And some of these took place at extremely posh venues whose names alone should have raised red flags for the sartorially challenged (I was so mad I even blogged about it). Kari, your second scenario (the ball) literally made me slap my desk in frustration. Like Angie, I find such an approach insulting, period. There is no excuse for ignorance in such a situation, in my opinion. Would it have been that hard to call up or email the organizers to ask a question? Do a google search for "ball atire?" Ask a few friends for advice? This will no doubt make me seem judgmental, but I suspect those who wore jeans to the event did so by choice and are thus deserving of our collective scorn. :)<br /> I feel similarly about church, though the explicitly-stated, flexible dress code makes things a bit more ambiguous. Dressing casually wouldn't be a flagrant insult in this case, since the host essentially gave permission for such an approach. That said, I sure wouldn't dress that way. I was raised to dress up for church, and that is what I would do. And if providing advice to someone having a church-motivated wardrobe conundrum, I would likely advise something on the nicer end of their professional capsule (assuming they had one).<br /> The grocery store presents the most perplexing grey area for me. I suspect I wouldn't be as appalled as you were by the admittedly dreadful outfits on display, though that's easy for me to say since I can't see them. &gt;) MaryK has a point about the conditions under which busy people need to accomplish essential tasks like food shopping, and I'm certainly willing to keep that in mind. That said, I do believe one should put in at least a little effort even for day-to-day life, and an outfit like decent jeans and a knitted top is hardly taxing most people's budgetary/style/comfort standards.<br /> It's interesting to think back on my own style evolution. I am certainly sporting dressier ensembles since discovering YLF, and I'm loving it. The huge, cosmopolitan, multicultural city I live in has a great deal to do with my comfort level in this respect, since breaking the environmental norm requires a significant outlay of courage from me.Yyet another reason to love my home town! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-257169 Sun, 28 Nov 2010 08:00:04 +0000 AJ 257169@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I know that before I learned how to dress for my body, I felt that being stylish was out of reach for me because nothing seemed to look just right. I did know that you don't have to spend a lot to look good, but I just didn't understand the basics of how to balance proportion and fit.</p> <p>Once I started to see my outfits balancing my body shape, I really started to like what I saw in the mirror thus I made more of an effort. As I made more of an effort, I started to have fun with fashion and my daily level of dressing (even though it is quite casual) has gone up. I really feel that it is just a matter of minor tweaks that can get you from "rolled out of bed" to "you look fab." I guess there are still a lot of people who are not even aware that they can dress for their current shape and look fantastic. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-257155 Sun, 28 Nov 2010 07:00:48 +0000 taylor 257155@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I am late here but...I am with Angie and others here...I too have art in the restroom...aesthetics are important in every aspect of my life, no matter where I am or what I am doing.</p> <p> For some people looking, living , speaking, thinking and presenting one's self in a sloppy and careless, thoughtless manner is a reflection of how they conduct every aspect of their life..At least that is how it appears to me. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-257151 Sun, 28 Nov 2010 06:41:30 +0000 Lyrebirdgully 257151@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thoughts on dress codes pt 2. [I couldn’t fit this all in on the first post. It’s a big topic all right…]<br /> You know, I think those of us who love fashion - that is, everyone who reads this blog - can end up in a sort of ‘style bubble’. For us, fashion is so bound up with what makes life beautiful and special, that we too easily forget that we fashion-lovers are but a small percentage of the population- just like the small percentage of the population who are into politics, or horse racing, or theatre, or hotrods, or gardening -you name it. How many women do you know (outside of the blogosphere or the fashion industry) who read fashion blogs? or even buy high fashion magazines routinely? It’s my experience that the vast majority of people (including women) are truly not very interested in fashion – (at least, not the way I am). That I think is the underlying reason behind the casualness of modern life. It’s not that the thousands of hardworking, self-sacrificing, decent men and women that I see every weekday on my commute to the CBD are disrespectful slobs. I’m pretty sure they just think that there are more important things in life than fashion. And, you know, they have a point. They like fashion, as long as it’s quick and simple, so they can spend more time living their lives–and I respect that view. And that respect means accepting that casual dress IS the norm where I live, and not expecting others to share my very personal passion for style. After all, “smart dress” takes extra thought and effort - effort which it is my pleasure to make- but my ideal is a world where I know that the smart dressers are motivated by a love of style, not by pressure to conform.<br /> It’s interesting to note that our older generation, who grew up in dressier (Mad Men etc) times, when only a “bad” girl would wear trousers in the city, have not resisted the casualness of the modern day. You would think that older people would have a conservative view of fashion, given that their tastes were moulded in an earlier era. But almost all the ones I see seem to have embraced the casual look in the 1960s and never looked back. For example, it took a lot of talking from my sister and myself - and a lot of compliments from strangers - to convince my mother that she would not be overdressed if she started wearing hats again. Now my mother grew up at a time when the female audience wore white gloves to attend the tennis championships! But in the 60s, she happily threw away her girdles, suspender belts, stockings, tight frocks, formal hats and gloves, for the comfort of jeans, tracksuits and knit tops, just like her sisters did. Looking around at the over-70-year-old women at a recent formal occasion, I noticed that nearly all were wearing pants, not skirts, despite the conditioning they received in their youth. Skirts were more common among the younger set in the room. Sometimes it seems that the generation who actually dressed in accordance with the codes of the 40s/50s/early 60s are in fact the ones least likely to be doing so now.<br /> PS: Thinking about people who “underdress” significantly on special occasions: it’s not the sort of thing you can question people about, so I have indeed been puzzled over their motivation. I suspect that for some people, it’s not about rebellion, disrespect, laziness or even ignorance. We all know how intensely uncomfortable each of us would feel if forced to wear clothes that are “not me”; and I think that for some “underdressed” people there’s a strong sense of embarrassment and lack of ease and confidence that those persons connect with the idea of wearing dressed-up clothes. I’m reminded of when I marched my then- 17-year-old son off to be fitted for his first suit. Up till then he had only ever worn jeans and school uniform. I was fortunate enough to be present when he came out of the fitting room modeling the 3–piece suit we would later buy. When he saw his reflection in the big mirror, he literally gasped with delight. The shop assistant and I exchanged significant glances. My son looked sensational, and that moment is one I will always treasure. What I learned from this experience is that wearing a totally new and different level of dress involves a MAJOR shift in a person’s sense of self. You are not going to put on a suit - or a ball-gown – if you think it will make you feel like an idiot. And if you have never tried one on, how would you know any different? Suit and formal wear rental places exist precisely because some people have never put garments like this on their back, let alone purchased them. Which reminds me, at some point I should try on some European- style red carpet, full throttle glamour outfits - just for the experience. Maybe I wouldn’t feel overdressed after all. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-257150 Sun, 28 Nov 2010 06:35:48 +0000 Lyrebirdgully 257150@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Maya, I’m with you on this one.<br /> Has anyone ever lived in Europe for any length of time? Or if not, do you know anyone who has? Have you ever talked with them about the European dress code? It seems that non-European-born women who have spent time in Europe all say the same thing; if you step outside your front door in track pants in Europe, the social consequences are not to be taken lightly. I know of women (Australian-born like myself, which means brought up to dress casually) in this situation who have been shocked at the open disapproval and gossip that followed them in Italy, Switzerland, and France when they did not follow the dress code in some particular or other. For those making a big effort to fit in, this was an aspect of “culture shock” that they were unprepared for. And if they had a European partner, they were likely to be on the receiving end of some serious dress code advice. I well remember a one-time boyfriend of mine, Hungarian-born, refusing to go out with me to a restaurant until I had changed my outfit. (He preferred a level of full-throttle, red carpet, glamour that would have made me then - and now - feel inauthentic.) My “Hungarian affair”, predictably, did not last. I guess I’ve got a rebellious streak. For me, the idea of HAVING to dress "up" EVERY time I went out, in my own personal leisure time, so as to meet the expectations of complete strangers, would make me feel like I was in a police state.<br /> Just for the record, I do not own a single pair of track pants, and have worn not a t-shirt or sweater outside of the gym for years. I dress "up" nearly all the time these days, even for the supermarket. For example, I attended a community AGM some Saturdays ago, and in a roomful of 150-odd jeans and sweaters, I was the only woman wearing a skirt (a satin ruffled one I might add). I have no doubt that the others got dressed in a quarter of the time that it took me to get ready that day - but for me it’s worth it. Guess that makes me still a dress code rebel, for the other side now...<br /> Like most of the other commenters, I adore to go out and see other people smartly and creatively presented; it’s one of my visual pleasures, like seeing flowers, trees or a beautiful sunset - and so, naturally I wish, quite for my own selfish pleasure, that more people dressed up more often; however, when I spot a smartly–dressed well-coiffed young Euro couple with their son and dog stroll into my local park in Sydney, wearing their new-looking and expensive designer resort outfits and watches - and I see them sit down carefully so as not to dirty their clothes, and see them make sure that their expensively-dressed young son does the same, when he should be running around throwing a ball to the dog and maybe getting a little sweaty and grubby—well, then I am glad that casual clothing is the norm where I live. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254963 Tue, 23 Nov 2010 02:52:50 +0000 Kari 254963@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thanks, Angie.</p> <p>Some other thoughts:</p> <p>Kate, I don't know that people realize that they are underdressed for most occasions because dressing ultra-casually has become so much the norm. I have a much-loved significant other who dresses VERY casually - jeans and tee shirt and sneakers every day. If I know there is a fancy event coming up, I'll be sure to mention the dress code and suggest some items of his that I love on him, because I don't want him to feel uncomfortable if he's more dressed down than everyone else. And I think he looks great in more smart casual outfits, and wish I could convince him to wear them more often.</p> <p>Lena, I agree with you that it's not about spending a ton of money on expensive clothes. I mean, simply looking at celebrity style blogs like gofugyourself, it's clear that having a ton of money does not equate to having good taste and style. And I don't get down on people for not dressing exactly like they stepped out of a fashion catalogue - heck, I dress in a way that is pretty pedestrian most of the time. It's just about being conscious that the level of casualness or professionalism in which you dress can really communicate a clear message, for bad or for good, about your respect for the person you are with, or the event you are attending.</p> <p>Sally, I agree that jeans aren't necessarily something to ban at work, but I think the reason why some companies do (other than clinging to a "no denim" legacy) is because some people might decide that if wearing smart, trouser-cut jeans is okay, then wearing sloppy, ill fitting jeans and a tee shirt should be okay too. My workplace banned shorts of all kinds (including bermudas or walking shorts) for the same reason - shorts are seen as a slippery slope to Daisy Dukes.</p> <p>LateBloomer, I think you should totally go out there and wear your dress - it looks fantastic on you.</p> <p>Julie, I have a similar memory from when I was a teen, and the memory haunts me. That's partly why I took a step back from my reactions to the "jeans and tee shirt wearers" at the ball and wondered if anyone had told them what they should wear in the first place. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254953 Tue, 23 Nov 2010 02:33:02 +0000 Angie 254953@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>And I *love* you for stretching it, Kari. It's who you are - which is 100% fabulous.</p> <p>High five, Barbara! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254909 Tue, 23 Nov 2010 01:22:45 +0000 Kari 254909@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thanks to all for chiming in, and I really appreciate the variety of opinions!</p> <p>Mary K, thanks for providing a voice on the opposite perspective.<br /> In response to one of your suggestions, I am thinking about writing the group who organized the ball to suggest putting a link on their paper brochure to where the dress code can be found. Photos of previous events are on the group's website where the electronic registration is, but there really isn't a link on the paper registration form for information on what to wear. I've been thinking about this issue, and honestly, if I were one of the students who showed up in jeans and a tee shirt without knowing what to expect, I would feel so embarrassed and tempted to leave early, and a little upset that no one had filled me in on what dress code was acceptable.</p> <p>Another reason I brought this post up: I've said this before, and I hope it doesn't sound snotty, but I do tend to be one of the more formally dressed people when my family or friends gather. And I don't mean "best or most stylishly dressed" - I mean that the way I dress (accessorizing with pearls or chunky necklaces, wearing skirts or dresses in casual occasions, occasionally wearing woven tops with jeans) is perceived as being "dressed up". To contrast, "casual" dress is assumed to be jeans and a tee shirt - something I rarely wear.<br /> I sometimes get a hard time for my personal "fancy" dress code. Family members comment that I haven't dressed in a truly "casual" outfit since college, or chide me for being "so dressed up" for certain occasions, and sometimes it's said in a sort of reprimanding way that makes me feel self-conscious.</p> <p>And that's not to play the victim or anything - I choose to "dress up" in a way that is true to my style, but I also consciously "dress down" for social occasions so that I won't stick out like a sore thumb and make myself (or others) feel uncomfortable. I'd honestly love to dress "stylish business casual", a la Angie, for many occasions, but based on the reactions to my "smart casual" wear I really think that showing up to a house party in a woven dress with boots and pearls, or going on an airplane in a skirt, would be seen as inappropriately dressed up and completely ridiculous. It's another way of "breaking" a dress code that I'm not comfortable with. At this point I'm okay with simply "stretching" it a little. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254743 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 21:25:47 +0000 MsMary 254743@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Well, I'm always going to dig in my heels about formal, mandatory dress codes because I guess I'm just enough of an old hippie to remember when dress codes were used to keep marginalized people, well, marginalized.</p> <p>My reaction to Kari's examples:</p> <p>1. Sorry, but I think the grocery store is for obtaining provisions that are necessary for life. I am a-okay with harried mothers and working people doing their grocery shopping in their work clothes. Hell, as long as they are not actively spreading stench, mud, or dust, I don't even require people to be all that clean at the grocery store. (I.e. if you want to do your grocery shopping on the way home from sweating at the gym or doing a physical job all day, it's fine with me.)</p> <p>2. The ball is super-easy. Just publicize the actual dress code. Shockingly enough, not everyone knows that a "ball" requires a ball gown, or even what a ball or a ball gown are. So it's not a big deal to say "dress up in your fanciest long dress or tuxedo" or whatever on the invitation, flyer, or poster. Provide illustrations, if necessary.</p> <p>3. Some people are going to be offended by other people's dress, no matter what. I think the church is doing a good thing by making its "come as you are" dress code explicit, so that the offended people can keep their offendedness to themselves! LOL </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254670 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 18:34:30 +0000 Christie 254670@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Is it casual because clothes can be bought so inexpensively? Of course, cheap clothes are made of sub-par materials and to fit the masses. One wouldn't pay to tailor a tee shirt bought for $5. </p> <p>In general, I think people are used to spending little on the essentials like food and clothing. Throughout most of history, clothes and food were hard-earned and therefore valued. Can you imagine the value you'd place on an item of clothing you handsewed, and even more so if you wove the cloth?! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254632 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 17:13:30 +0000 Mo 254632@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Interesting. Used to be a restaurant in New Orleans my BF and I would go to on vacation wouldn't let him in without a coat. Even a nice long sleeve dress shirt and tie was not enough. Fast forward to post Katrina. We went and joined some friends from Phoenix there. Warned them that they would need to dress up to get in for Sunday jazz brunch. They all had no more than shorts and tees in their suitcases. The nicest of the bunch was a long sleeved henley. Well, must have been the economy after the hurricane, but they had no more dress code and many of the customers were in their 'casual' attire. Sad to say, this fine restaurant had to bow down to the masses to stay afloat after 150 years.<br /> In most cases, I'm not too bothered by sloppy casual wear, but in certain instances and places I agree it's more about respect of the host or institution etc. In the grocery, I figure they just don't care and that's alright by me. Those folks are the ones who have to live with looking how they do, not me!<br /> So I guess it is situation specific for me regarding dress codes. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254582 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 15:43:08 +0000 Late Bloomer 254582@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I've been reading Tim Gunn's new book which has turned out to be more about manners than fashion. The part I read last night was about the confusing descriptions of dress for events that we get now. He mentioned some like "California Chic" and "Festive Formal". I bought a pretty shutter pleat knee length dress for my HS reunion dinner dance. But when more information came out it turned out the event was to be "Casual Dressy". What in the heck does that mean? I think they changed it to that because they were afraid some people wouldn't attend if they had to dress up. So depressing. I wore my dress anyway because I'd bought it and I was way over dressed. I'd love to wear it again but it will be hard to find an appropriate event. My friend wanted us to go with them to the big gala that earns money for the symphony but we can't afford the $400 it would cost for the two of us.</p> <p>I think the reason churches say come as you are is because they want everyone to feel welcome no matter what clothing they can afford. But during the Great Depression women still put on a dress and a hat to go to church. They didn't have much and the dress may have been old but they still cared how they looked for church.</p> <p>I used to think the way people dress so sloppily now is just because they don't know how to dress nicely and don't have any incentive to do so. But now I'm starting to think it's become the tyranny of the masses. They don't want to bother to dress nicely and so no one should. Does it seem this way because I live in the west? Like Kate said, Tucson is depressingly sub-casual but I lived in Spokane for years and it was just as bad. I know people dress better in places like New York city. What about other regions?</p> <p>PS, Sally thanks for the encouragement. I think I need to make myself wear a dress say once a week and maybe I would get more comfortable doing it. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254529 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 13:50:37 +0000 Barbara 254529@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I'm 100% with you Angie! Aesthetics are SO important in every day life. The way we dress is just ONE way to show that we care. A lifelong appreciation of beautiful, fine things has enriched my life immensely. Beautiful things DO NOT have to break the bank, either! I guess my designer's eye zeros in on the unique and lovely. But I have always been this way! </p> <p>Great post, Kari! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254526 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 13:30:29 +0000 RoseandJoan 254526@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I do have strong ideas about dress codes and dressing appropriately in general, sometimes I feel judgemental for holding these views but mostly it just makes me feel slightly sad. </p> <p>I always remember going to a wedding reception with a close friend at 13 and my Mum did not tell me my white jeans would not be appropriate. I felt horrible the whole evening so perhaps ignorance does play a part. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254508 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 08:55:23 +0000 Dee 254508@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>In most situations, it wouldn’t bother and I definitely wouldn’t find it offensive. Wearing jeans and a tee to a formal ball seems weird though…as a host I might find it offensive, but as another guest I wouldn’t. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254507 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 08:23:03 +0000 Refugee 254507@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I probably have a rather bizarre perspective when it comes to dress codes. I was raised with a dress code of situationally appropriate. Some things called for dessing up, some things did not. Most people today would find the standards of that to be on the high end. I still cannot imagine getting on an airplane without being dressed for travel'. By the same token I went through a period in my adult life where my wardrobe consisted of 'momjeans and Igiveup dresses.'<br /> While I was in that phase I was also an adult sponosr of a young men's organization that required specific dress code and appropriate behavior. To the point the young men found it to be a status symbol to be not only dressed appropriately (mostly suits and ties) but were concerned about the etiqutte of being a proper escort.<br /> To speak to the specific instances you ask about I have a variety of responses:<br /> 1. Yes, what we see in the grocery store and in casual settings in general in frightful.<br /> 2. Unfortuantely there are so many who either just ignore specific dress codes or have no idea what they mean, it is really just sad.<br /> 3. Don't get me started. The difference between stated church dress codes and what certain congreagation members believe it should be would send me off on a tangent that is inappropriate for this forum. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254505 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 08:15:23 +0000 Sally 254505@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>@late bloomer...gorgeous dress. wear it and show the others up! I dress up one day and then down the next...it must make some people confused. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254488 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 06:54:59 +0000 Jenava 254488@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I'm sorry, but you won't get a dissenting opinion from me. I only wear sweatpants to sweat in (and I try to find the most stylish ones I can, at that!). I think it's a reflection of poor self-esteem when people dress sloppy. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254485 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 06:31:03 +0000 Late Bloomer 254485@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I've been doing the 30 for 30 challenge. I only included 2 dresses in my 30 items and have only worn one dress one time during the two weeks it's been going. Yet I am bored with all the pants outfits in spite of how I've varied them. Why not more dresses? There simply haven't been occasions where I felt comfortable wearing a dress. Even at the state level study group I attended in Phoenix I was the only one in a dress and mine was a denim dress. I would love to wear my new gray sheath that I got for Fall but again there hasn't been a single thing I've gone to where anyone would be wearing anything but pants. I already stand out in an awkward way because of how I've upped my casual dress. I feel like there is a dress code and it says "Don't dress too nicely and make the rest of us look bad"! Here is the sheath I'd love to wear and could style it so many many ways from boots and turtleneck to a cardi with heels but it just sits there in my closet. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254480 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 05:55:31 +0000 Sally 254480@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Interesting discussion. we have had this discussion at work as we have no real dress code and people have said that we should ban jeans. I think people should be aware of dress appropriateness but I dont think that jeans is necessarily bad form for work. Our work would be smart casual and I really dress my jeans up so can't see why I can't wear jeans to work and someone else wears cargo pants or cotton pants.<br /> I would never wear jeans to a formal occasion. IT would make me feel uncomfortable to be so inappropriately dressed. I mean if most people are in ball gowns and I turn up in jeans, I would feel inappropriate. I wonder how these people feel. Yeah people dress sloppy at the supermaket but that doesn't really worry me. Maybe I have low standards for supermarket dress. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254477 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 05:52:53 +0000 Lena 254477@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Yes, Kari, I'm also disappointed. </p> <p>Maya, good point about apathy! I can totally see it in some people I know.</p> <p>I used to get down on myself for being overdressed in my casual town. It's not like I was parading around in a ball gown anyway, just smart casual. I came from a country where it was difficult to obtain decent looking clothes, yet most people managed to look neat somehow (heh, it kind of backfired now and unfortunately there's too much focus on showing off for the sake of showing off... but that's off topic). Anyway, it occurred to me that you don't need to be wealthy to be pulled together. </p> <p>I also think that sweatpants, flip flops and pjs (outside of appropriate context such as gym and your house) became another *uniform* of sorts. Very conformist actually. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254420 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 02:35:01 +0000 Maya 254420@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I don't think you're alone here Kari. I think a lot of YLFers have expressed that dressing appropriately is a way to convey respect. in turn, not dressing appropriately conveys disrespect. I see how we dress as a very small manifestation of larger problems: lack of respect, and apathy. Both are tremendously damaging and they seem to penetrate every aspect of our culture, including how we dress. Some might say I'm making a leap or over-dramatizing, but it really bothers me.</p> <p>I like to dress well to show that I care. I care about myself, and I care about those around me. I want to respect the space I'm in, and acknowledge that I am sharing it with others who probably don't want to see me in my pajamas and hair curlers.</p> <p>Looking at Kate's link is dismaying. I have mentioned that it bothers me that women are so judgmental and hard on other women when they aren't perfectly turned out, but men are allowed a pass. Why is that? They're not supposed to care how they look because they're guys and it isn't manly? Utterly lame. You can call me a snotty judgmental witch, but I could never, ever be attracted to a dude dressed in a wifebeater, cargo shorts, and Birkenstocks. Sorry. I don't care how glowing his personality is. It's just insulting.</p> <p>And it's also nonsense that men just don't care or aren't supposed to care. Go back in time, or even to another country, and you'll find that men care(d) quite a bit. It's only in modern day America that men and women alike are so apathetic. I don't think men necessarily need to go back to the days of perfect sartorial elegance (though it would be nice...), but the casualwear definitely needs a makeover. </p> <p>Now more than ever, there are absolutely no excuses for looking like a slob. Modern fashion cuts across all age groups, sizes, budgets, and lifestyles. We have more choice, and better technology than ever before! Back when women had to wear corsets, ghastly painful shoes, and non-stretch bras they somehow managed. But today we have so many advances and yet people whine about comfort? Amazing.</p> <p>Ok, I have totally just gone off the rails. I'll be quiet now. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254391 Mon, 22 Nov 2010 01:23:12 +0000 Kate 254391@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>There's also the possibility of breaking the dress code by looking too formal/fancy. I've gone to Safeway on the way to a party wearing silver wedge heels and a fancy black dress with spaghetti straps, and I definitely got more weird looks than the people wearing pj bottoms or sweatpants. But I would rather be too dressed up than under-dressed, plus it was clear I was headed somewhere important, not back to bed :P</p> <p>It's also funny how certain cities seem to adopt their own dress codes. I wore my autumn tweed jacket to the dermatologist the other day, and she told me how much she loved it, but that she feels like there's no reason to dress up in Tucson because everyone is so casual. It's not that everyone here is wearing just jeans and t-shirts, there's actually a very diverse population and walking around I see a huge variety of styles daily, but they're almost all casual. Granted, I rarely wear anything nicer than smart casual or business casual, but even so I tend to be more dressed up than the people around me. </p> <p>The dress code also becomes very black when it gets colder. Last winter I went to a bar wearing my brown trench and an olive green top, and I think I was the only person there not wearing a black top and a black jacket! I am plenty happy to break that dress code too.</p> <p>Here's what baffles me: do people know they are under-dressed? I'm totally cool with trying to break down hierarchies, and thus under-dressing to in some way make a point. I'm not cool with sloppiness. Even if I'm not a fan of their outfit, I'm ok with people breaking the dress code to prove a point, reclaim a space, or whatever so long as they are mindful and there is a reason for their outfit choice. It's when people are too lazy or oblivious to realize that they are being disrespectful of the store, host, church, etc. that I'm offended.</p> <p>edit: somewhat related, I found this dress chart from 1902: <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Dress_Chart_%28Fashion%29_1902.jpg/705px-Dress_Chart_%28Fashion%29_1902.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi.....9_1902.jpg</a></p> <p>as well as this photo of the male dress code in western culture: <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Male_dress_code_in_Western_culture.png/334px-Male_dress_code_in_Western_culture.png" rel="nofollow">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi.....ulture.png</a> </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254347 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 23:39:10 +0000 Angie 254347@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Kari, I like your thought processes and thanks for sharing them. </p> <p>Warning: to some people this may sound superficial and completely judgmental!</p> <p>I have an incredible appreciation for aesthetics. My experience at a fancy restaurant is positively increased when people are well turned out. I count it a must to hang nice artwork in a bathroom. I enjoy beautifully wrapped presents and well presented food. I like our doggies to wear adorable collars that match their personalities. At home, we eat different types of cuisine from different types of crockery because it makes it taste nicer. I can't help but be affected by these types of details as they enrich my life. </p> <p>So back to your question Kari, when people wear jeans and T's to a formal ball, I find it insulting to the host and to the people who made the effort to dress up. </p> <p>I'll get off mt soap box now </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/thoughts-about-dress-codes#post-254282 Sun, 21 Nov 2010 22:01:35 +0000 Kari 254282@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Following <a href="http://youlookfab.com/2010/11/10/from-mad-men-to-casualization/">the Mad Men to Casualization</a> blog post, I have been thinking a lot about dress codes and to what extent the casualization has slid.<br /> I'm mulling over a couple of examples of "breaking" a perceived dress code, and trying to analyze why I feel like doing so is okay in certain situations and unacceptable in others:</p> <p>1. Standing in line at a suburban grocery store, noting that at least half of the grown women are wearing very baggy, ill-fitting sweatpants or knit tracksuits.</p> <p>2. Attending a dance ball where the dress code typically veers between formal and semi-formal. Men typically wear kilts and tux jackets; some men wear nice pants and button-down shirts. Most grown women wear ball gowns or long satin skirts, though some (like me, especially those of us on the younger side) wore cocktail length dresses. Many crafty women sew their own dresses, and look fabulous. I've even worn a knit dress in a previous year - accessorized in a more semi-formal way.<br /> This year, several college age participants attended, some of whom dressed semi-formally, but a couple literally wore jeans and tee shirts.</p> <p>3. A church that I attended while I was in college included a great range of ages - a large group of college students, and a large group of senior citizens. For the most part, many of the older members of the congregation did dress up, and many of us who were younger did as well - though some attended every week in jeans, sneakers, and tee shirts. The official church dress code was to "come as you are", but there were some in the community who felt that "dressing your best" was important. (I usually wore my version of a "college smart casual" outfit - cord pants, dress pants, or a skirt, and a top that wasn't a tee shirt.)</p> <p>I felt that #1 and #2 were inappropriate. There isn't a dress code in a grocery store, but I actually felt kind of bothered that the majority of shoppers looked like they had rolled right out of bed. I'm not sure exactly why I felt bothered by it, though. Maybe it's because dressing in loungewear *was* the norm.<br /> In situation #2, I felt a bit offended at the jeans and tee shirts, because I thought the dance being marketed as a "ball" made it pretty clear that it was a very dressy event. Then I realized that it was likely that these folks were first-time attendees, and felt bad that apparently no one had warned them to dress up a bit. How embarrassing.</p> <p>In situation #3, I thought it was pretty clear that it was okay to either dress up or not, and wasn't at all bothered by those who chose to wear jeans and tee shirts even though I usually dressed up a bit more, but I know there were some in the congregation who thought it was a bit offensive to dress ultra-casually to go to church.</p> <p>When do you think it's acceptable (or unacceptable) to break the norm for a dress code? Does it ever irritate you when people do so in certain situations - or am I being too judgmental? </p>