https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Thu, 07 May 2026 01:42:58 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be/page/2#post-151393 Mon, 03 May 2010 17:20:40 +0000 Sihaya 151393@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Patience, what a wonderful post. I am still in denial or quasi hope about my pooch belly and my youngest is now 5! It was super helpful to read your post and get to a place of realistic acceptance. Thank you for writing with heart. And congratulations on 3 little ones. You always look fab! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be/page/2#post-151392 Mon, 03 May 2010 17:20:28 +0000 Patience 151392@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Wow! I even drew out Lesley today! I hear you, Lesley. It sounds like our stories are fairly similar.</p> <p>Thanks for that tidbit of info, Marianne. I am now remembering all those times men have told me to smile and thinking of it in quite a different light. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be/page/2#post-151384 Mon, 03 May 2010 16:57:57 +0000 marianne 151384@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Hi Lesley, it's great to see you!<br /> I hope you don't mind me asking, does the chiropractor help? I started going to one recently for my postpartum lower back issues, and while it makes it feel a bit better, it doesn't seem to me that it would provide a solution long term. I only went a few times, and I am not sure if I should continue, but I also heard that it might take many sessions.<br /> Stringy, I think I would say it jokingly - it worked for me when people tried to touch by pregnant belly and they actually got embarrassed.<br /> As for the guys telling you to smile, it's a male power move akin to whistling. There is pretty much nothing you can say back! I used to get that a lot in my younger days, probably because I looked shy and quiet. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be/page/2#post-151377 Mon, 03 May 2010 16:42:30 +0000 Dusty 151377@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I just don't "get" people sometimes. I make it a rule to never ask anyone if they're expecting. If they want to share, they'll tell me. I also hate the "so, when are you going to try for another" question. Like that's not a little personal? I've been so tempted to say "point me to the nearest bed and we'll get right on that for you," but I never have. And I hate the assumptions that we're done because we have one of each (we are, but it's really none of anyone's business) - with the insinuation that *I* would have insisted on another if I hadn't "gotten my girl." I love my girl and wouldn't trade her for the world, but I loved the little boy I lost just before her and I would have felt complete with my two boys (and I don't think I'll ever *truly* feel complete now). </p> <p>I totally hear on the body changes, though. My rib cage is bigger and so are my feet. My wedding ring is too small now. And my tummy is no longer recognizable. It was never really flat, but now it's got all kinds of extra bits and it and my upper thighs are covered in stretch marks (two big babies, 10 &amp; 9 lbs. respectively, will do that). But you know, I'm okay with it. </p> <p>You look fabulous and I'm sorry some people don't have internal filters at all.</p> <p>ETA: and I think it's a very good thing nobody has ever asked me that question when I wasn't actually pregnant - I haven't been exactly stable since having children and my PPD has been less controlled at some times than at others - I'd have been likely to injure someone! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be/page/2#post-151365 Mon, 03 May 2010 16:16:30 +0000 lwc 151365@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Hi, Patience! *waving*</p> <p>Sorry you had to deal with that. There is something about pregnancy and motherhood that causes folks to say and do some ignorant things.</p> <p>I have 2 kids, and was all belly with both. I remember men and women approaching me, commenting on how cute I looked, then rubbing my stomach! WTH?!?! So, I returned the gesture and shut 'em down! People don't realize how that stuff feels.</p> <p>I did not get stretchmarks, and am at my pre-preggo weight, but I do have a small pooch and lower back issues that require chiropractic care. Boob-wise, I have gone from "porn star" to "mosquito bite" status over the last 4 years. I nursed my DD for 17 months, and my son still nurses at 2 years. I do see the finish line ahead, but dang...*sigh* </p> <p>My friend calls the pooch my "badge of honor," and my midwife says that you can't even begin to analyze or assess your body until at least 2 years after birth. </p> <p>The best thing that we can do is eat right, exercise, and enjoy every precious moment with our little ones. I also think that it's great that we belong to a great community here where we can help one another look and feel our best as we go through various stages and phases of life.</p> <p>Take care. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-151302 Mon, 03 May 2010 12:21:34 +0000 Itari 151302@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>People can be so insensitive sometimes... Few months ago I heard two women talking in a tram, it seemed that they were friends or something. They talked for a while and one of them asked the second (loudly):</p> <p>"What week of your pregnancy would it be now if you hadn't miscarried?" </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-151224 Mon, 03 May 2010 04:23:47 +0000 Kate 151224@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I just want to echo how fab all of you are, and that very few women (myself included) EVER have a flat tummy, regardless of how healthy and fit they might be. For most of us they are unrealistic, and I would take the having kids over killer abs any day.</p> <p>Maya, when my parents lived in NY in the 80s a man came up to my mom and told her she would be prettier if she smiled. She gave him a cold stare and said "my mother just died"! It was far from the truth, but it got him to leave her alone!</p> <p>I also had a friend who is lactose intolerant, ate cheese anyway, and had an absurdly bloated belly the entire time we were studying in South Africa. MANY people asked her when the baby was due, and she just played along with it - made up a due date and everything. She thought it was easier that way. She also had a teen girl ask her if she was "pregnant or just fat"! People can be so absurd... </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-151212 Mon, 03 May 2010 03:28:42 +0000 Maya 151212@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Ahhh Stringy I HATE that. I rambled about this once on Michelle's blog. Why do random strangers feel the need to command me, or anyone else, to smile? Do they have any idea what might be going on in my life? What I'm thinking? Why do I have to be grinning like a banshee or a moron in order to please them? </p> <p>...especially on the train. NJ transit does not warrant smiling (Michelle almost had an apoplexy when I told her my monthly commuting fees). </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-151210 Mon, 03 May 2010 03:24:49 +0000 stringy 151210@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Marianne, one time when I was asked by a stranger, I kind of squinted at them and said loudly "Do I know you?". The lady mumbled some sort of reply, and I said "Oh" just as loudly and turned and walked away. Not quickly, just... away.</p> <p>I hope she's too embarrassed to ever accost strangers again. The same line works on guys on the train who tell me to smile. It makes me look a little odd, but hey, at least I'm not the one who thinks they've got the right to comment on the appearance of every person in the street. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150939 Sun, 02 May 2010 19:33:09 +0000 marianne 150939@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I can't believe people ask this, especially strangers. Completely outrageous IMO. I have never been asked, but seriously, I would respond with "Didn't your mother teach you not to ask this question?"<br /> Patience, I agree with others, although I haven't met you, you come across as a great mother. Quite enviable!<br /> P.S. I never had a flat tummy either, and stopped worrying about it years ago. It is true that post-babies it expands significantly after meals. Though my biggest post-pregnancy peeve is my hip joints and lower back issues, and it has barely gotten better after 2 years. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150931 Sun, 02 May 2010 19:06:01 +0000 LoP 150931@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>This is so beautifully written Patience! You are so beautiful and a great mother from what I can tell.</p> <p>Comments are a recent issue for me lately as well. I gained a few pounds, enough to make my chest area look bigger as it is where I gain weight first. I get up at 4am every day to work on my dissertation before work so I don't drink most of the time. "not drinking+body change+first kid older than 2" leads to "are you pregnant" questions more often than I would think. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150852 Sun, 02 May 2010 15:28:54 +0000 Itari 150852@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Cheer up, Patience. I don't have kids, but I was asked if I was pregnant, when I was 15. That was a terrible thing to say to a teenage girl! Oh, and when I was 12, someone told me that I'd never be slim because of my heavy build.</p> <p>My mom had a kid when she was 40. My brother was 4 kg despite being born in 37th week. He'll celebrate his 6th birthday in October and my mom still can't lose her baby belly. It looks weird, because she's a tall, slender Racy Rectangle. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150843 Sun, 02 May 2010 14:39:33 +0000 Patience 150843@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I forgot to say the most imiportant thing-- that what I appreciate most have been all of your wonderful comments concerning my abilities as a mother, Boof, Sarah, San and everyone. I always say that the best gift you can give a new mother is confidence. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150840 Sun, 02 May 2010 14:31:19 +0000 Patience 150840@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thank you, everyone, for being SO supportive.</p> <p>Khrs, Julie, An, Cricket, LMom, Katiepea, Taylor, thank you for sharing your stories. Khris, your experience may be less common, but I know your know it's still normal. (My last baby was 9 lbs 6 oz so Cheers!) Just as everyone's body is so different, our stories will be different but I feel compelled to have this conversation so that people can be more aware of what's normal. What's portrayed in the media is so often not reality.</p> <p>Rute, thank you for being so articulate about what's real.</p> <p>And now I am laughing because I don't recall *ever* having the thought "look how nice and flat my tummy is" so what's the point of belaboring the other? Thank you for pointing that out. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150809 Sun, 02 May 2010 13:53:11 +0000 Boof 150809@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Patience, thank you for writing this post. It makes me sad that our culture looks at what happens to bodies naturally as ugly. Pregnancy, childbirth, aging, etc. all take their toll...but isn't that what is supposed to happen? I think "real" bodies are beautiful, and the world would be a much kinder place if the focus was shifted to taking good care of your body rather than surgically altering it.</p> <p>Even when I was young and very thin, I always had a tummy pooch...a fun family trait. Strangers have asked if I was pregnant countless times. That is just no fun. I remember holding my first daughter as an infant and having people ask if I was expecting. I just wanted to say, "Seriously?! Can you not see that I'm holding a new baby?"</p> <p>I never lost all of my weight between my two girls, and I finally lost the "baby weight" for good when my youngest was five. :o)</p> <p>My dermatologist calls all of the battle scars that we carry "marks of wisdom and beauty." I tend to agree.</p> <p>Patience, you are such a wise and beautiful woman. How blessed your children are to have you as their example! :o) </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150796 Sun, 02 May 2010 12:29:20 +0000 Losermom 150796@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Patience, you speak the truth. I never had a flat tummy. And with each pregnancy (2 spaced 8 years apart) I gained more and more weight. I never believed that my tummy would bounce back at my age (47) and after my weight loss. I have a ton of huge stretch marks from my pregnancies, both of my kids were over 9 lbs. I didn't gain a lot of weight during the pregnancies, I stress/emotionally ate afterwards, but that's a story for another time. What my point is, and yes I do have one, is that your body has done amazing things! And there are going to be some battle scars--it's not going to be perfect. But those kids of yours, they are perfect little creations that came out of you. Congrats on bouncing back so quickly after pregnancy. I'm so impressed. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150786 Sun, 02 May 2010 11:39:47 +0000 Sarah 150786@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Ugh. I too have been asked this question (three times by complete strangers) and it just hurts. I haven't had kids, either.<br /> With that said, Patience I'd love to look as good as you do post-baby any day!<br /> I have the privilage of getting to see you interact with your kids, and as much as I envy your figure, I really envy your mothering. If I ever have kids, I hope I'm as good a mommy to them as you are to yours. And that is what truly matters. I know you wouldn't change your post-baby tummy for any of your babies.<br /> I also know that it's only been FOUR MONTHS since little Luke was born. It has taken me three years to lose weight. It takes time to lose it in a healthy way, and you'll be just fine.<br /> I know you didn't want sympathy, but I truly am sorry that someone was so cruel. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150784 Sun, 02 May 2010 11:36:40 +0000 Laura 150784@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Amen Patience! Thank you for recording the truth about pregnancy and early motherhood.</p> <p>It's somehow heartening to see that lots of us never did have a flat stomach, even pre-baby -- myself included. I remember being with my mom in a dressing room when I was young, and her telling me that we are not the kind of women who have flat stomachs. Ever. It's just our fate in life! </p> <p>And what you write about how long it takes to come back from a pregnancy is so true. It's a full two-year process from conception to getting back to your start weight (and lots of women never do). A full two years! And you've done it three times! </p> <p>Kudos Patience </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150782 Sun, 02 May 2010 10:41:49 +0000 An 150782@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thank-you for your post Patience and congrats on your 3 littlies. You have a fantastic attitude and I enjoy reading your posts. </p> <p>I totally hear what you are saying. I have 2 little ones, the youngest is 6 months and I am about 10kg heavier than usual. And although I know it is so unimportant in comparison to my gorgeous little boy, I find the changes in my body very frustrating and challenging at times. My body seems to stay very 'frumpy' while I'm breastfeeding (so much for breastfeeding helping lose weight!) and then gradually returns to some kind of normality after I stop (at least I'm hoping that happens again this time!). I keep reminding myself that they are little for such a short time and I think the really important thing is to just remember to enjoy all the beautiful bits of motherhood and know that the hard stuff really does just pass so quickly. </p> <p>You are gorgeous Patience! Thanks for being real!! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150780 Sun, 02 May 2010 10:18:16 +0000 Katiepea 150780@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Oh Patience, my little heart did a flip-flop when I read your post and my eyes misted over just a tad. I really understand *exactly* what you are saying and couldn't agree more with everything you have said. </p> <p>When my baby three was less than six months old (I'd had 3 bubs in just on four years - so I was basically alternating between being a cow (feeding) or pregnant for fouryears in a row) I was asked about three times in a matter of weeks when my next bub was due. Hello? Didn't I look like I already had my hands full with a newborn, a two year old and just turned four year old?! It was made even worse because I have three beautiful boys and people just could not seem to accept that I was not "desperate" for a girl. Arrrrrgggghhhhh!</p> <p>I can remember that at the point you are at now, I'd lament about my poor tummy - it shaped up ok after baby 1 and 2, but baby 3 somehow sadly, "wrecked me" forever, or so it felt at the time. My poor hubby would see my crest-fallen face as I looked in a mirror and struggled with the concept of viewing myself as being a vibrant, sexy woman, who just happened to be a mother of three. He'd try to reassure me, but hey - it wasn't looking pretty (or so it seemed to me at the time).</p> <p>Patience, my point of writing the above statement is to reassure you that there are lots of us mummy's out there who have felt exactly how you feel RIGHT now. I would like to say, however that whilst yes, I absolutely agree that our bodies do change forever after a baby and yes, it did take a LOT longer for my body to "bounce back" (somewhat) after baby three (is it a mid 30's thing?!), it, however slowly has - even with wrecked ab muscles, stretchmarks, extra skin yada-yada-yada. I can even look in a mirror now, even with my lumps and bumps and extra skinny, saggy bits (and I don't mean skinny as in slim) I can say, "yep - looking good for me!" Have faith - you'll get there! </p> <p>Now, go give your gorgeous baby a cuddle for me and give your tummy a gentle, loving rub to thank it for helping to produce such beautiful children! x </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150778 Sun, 02 May 2010 10:14:05 +0000 rute 150778@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thank you Patiente! </p> <p>I was speaking with my sister on the other day about that, no one advises a new mom honestly, they just say.. oh having kids it's the most wonderful thing!</p> <p>No one advises how difficult is to facing a changed body, a new born always crying and those awful comments two days after having the baby .. "oh.. you are so fat"..</p> <p>Sometimes we even thing there is someting wrong with us.. our baby is always crying, we had no sleep and are so tired we just want to go away..</p> <p>No one tells us this is normal, our body is different, even after longs moths trying to recover the old weight, the body will never be the same, just different and that's not a bad thing, we must accept, loved it!</p> <p>You have accomplished so much! 3 kids WOW! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150738 Sun, 02 May 2010 06:43:31 +0000 RoseandJoan 150738@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Bravo Patience,</p> <p>there are very unrealistic expectations of what a woman should look like after having a baby, I believe in America 'New Mommy Makeovers' are available where a tummy tuck, breast lift and liposuction are carried out before the body has even begun the healing process.</p> <p>I may be mistaken but I'm sure I read that it takes seven years for a body to recover from carrying and delivering a baby</p> <p>My story is rather curious, after several miscarriage I did not want to place my pregnancy with Teah under any strain. I stopped exercising and would rest at any available opportunity, by my 12 week check I had gained 24 pounds and I did not weigh myself again until Teah was 9 months old. By that time I had lost all but the last 12 pounds and had gone from a pant size UK 16 to a UK 12.</p> <p>With Emmy I was very active, Teah was just crawling so I was constantly playing on the floor, pushing the pram or generally being a busy Mum whilst working part time. A week after the birth I was back to the same weight as my twelve week check. I wore my size 12 jean into the hospital and remain the same size.</p> <p>My body now is not the same as before my pregnancies. I have much wider ribs and hips, my bust is lower resulting in a bony chest and yes after a big meal or the smallest amount of bloating my stomach quickly resumes the shape of being four months pregnant. </p> <p>But I honestly believe considering nutrition above all else is the only way to go whilst nursing! Stomach muscles require time to regain there strength and the pelvis is one of the last parts of the body to realign. Please do not be hard on yourself you looked beautiful before, during and after your pregnancy and fools will always be fools. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150734 Sun, 02 May 2010 05:54:48 +0000 stringy 150734@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Aw, some people just don't have any manners. I don't have kids and I still get asked if I'm pregnant because I've got a little pot belly. </p> <p>Even if someone *was* pregnant, there's a bunch of good reasons they might not want to tell yet, or talk to random people about it. </p> <p>My general rule is to never initiate conversations about someone else's breeding status. If they want to talk about it, they can start the ball rolling and I will join in enthusiastically That way I avoid mistakes or being inappropriate. </p> <p>Patience, I'm glad you've got the courage of your convictions. I hope these people can learn from you! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150724 Sun, 02 May 2010 05:05:39 +0000 Anonymous 150724@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thankyou for the post Patience. I believe you'll be back looking like pre baby soon and people will be astonished that you have 3 children. You have many blessings and I can tell that you love that more than a flat pre baby tunny. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150723 Sun, 02 May 2010 04:53:06 +0000 Christie 150723@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Hey Patience, </p> <p>I'm logging in out of a 3 month-lurkdom just to reply to your post. I am pregnant with #4, and have been asked that dreaded question by acquaintances ... 18 months after my #2, and 3 years after my #3. (Yes, I remember exactly who asked me too!) I don't naturally have a flat stomach and after babies, its not ever really going to be again. The funny thing is that only one person has asked me if I'm pregnant right now, and I'm 19 weeks! </p> <p>Its normal. But it is embarrassing to respond to at the time. Ugh. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150708 Sun, 02 May 2010 03:49:55 +0000 cciele 150708@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Amen, Patience. Very eloquently put.</p> <p>Sorry to hear about your experience at the mall. To tell you the truth, I look at your recent photos and can't believe you're only 4 months post-pregnancy! You look awesome, girl! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150688 Sun, 02 May 2010 03:18:29 +0000 marianna 150688@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>This is a great post and I've really enjoyed reading all the comments. You're beautiful, Patience. Your figure is enviable! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150685 Sun, 02 May 2010 03:15:24 +0000 Debbie 150685@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Patience I'm so sorry this happened to you. I have also had three children and do not have a flat stomach and never will. As I get older I notice it more and wish I had a flatter stomach but I also am very proud to have given birth and it is a very small price to pay.<br /> You are beautiful inside and out! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150683 Sun, 02 May 2010 03:10:21 +0000 taylor 150683@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Beautifully heartfelt.:)</p> <p>I am always amazed at how total strangers are so bold and rude. I actually have had babies so I completely understand the body image things you must wrap your mind around before, during and after pregnancy. Unkind words from strangers can be difficult.</p> <p>I think your goals for weight loss are realistic and you look WONDERFUL now... so be proud.</p> <p>Also my tummy is a true disaster from bringing children into the world...It really does look like a road map from stretch marks...that's what happens when you have 8 1/2 pounders...and although I would love to have a pretty tummy again, I wouldn't trade one tummy stretch mark for those babies.</p> <p>My daughter just had her second child 3 weeks ago...So your post really hit home for me.....</p> <p>You have 3 beautiful babies...Such a blessing!!!</p> <p>Goodness Khris , that is a big baby!!! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/the-truth-for-moms-and-moms-to-be#post-150679 Sun, 02 May 2010 03:05:47 +0000 chewyspaghetti 150679@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>The Truth about pregnancy will vary from mom to mom- but this is certainly a very common story. Patience I'm sorry that someone was rude to you.<br /> Mine is less common, but just as true. I never had a flat tummy- and I had stretch marks by the time I hit puberty just from growing. I gained less than 20 pounds with each of my pregnancies, and when I had the first baby I weighed less the day that I went home from the hospital than I had when I got pregnant with him (well- he weighed 10.9 pounds, and my placenta weighed 5 pounds, plus all the water weight so it's pretty simple math). With my second pregnancy, my downstairs neighbors didn't notice I was pregnant until two weeks before the baby was due.<br /> Every woman will have their own body story after birth- but it always changes you. Anthropologists can actually look at a skeleton of a woman and tell how many births she had. It's amazing!<br /> Our bodies are made to nurture and grow another human being- so let's be gentle on them for the changes that occur. </p>