YouLookFab Forum » Topic: shifting definitions

YouLookFab Forum » Topic: shifting definitions https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Fri, 10 Apr 2026 17:53:14 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 <![CDATA[Search]]> q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php rachylou on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions/page/2#post-1025059 Mon, 09 Sep 2013 16:51:51 +0000 rachylou 1025059@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Just wanted to say, *OMG - I haven't heard the term zorries in like 30 years!" Lol. pastrygirl on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1025053 Mon, 09 Sep 2013 16:38:12 +0000 pastrygirl 1025053@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I stopped using "button down" when my husband called me on it every single time, LOL. Now I say "button-up" or "buttoned" shirt. To me, a shirt is anything you wear on your top half, which is too vague. Also to me, a blouse is flowy. Those no-iron buttoned white shirts are not blouses in my book, but I acknowledge I might be the only one to think this! Vildy on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024873 Mon, 09 Sep 2013 11:21:22 +0000 Vildy 1024873@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ A sack dress was the earliest incarnation of what became the 60's shift. There was a lot of hootin' and hollerin' ridiculing and complaining about the sack.  I recall that the shift could have darts, such as diagonal french darts but did completely ignore the waist. Nowadays, I will often see shifts that are described as sheath dresses.  Sheath dresses used to be very form-fitting woven dresses that showed off the waist but often without an actual waist seam and fisheye darts instead. Though I suppose a fitted bodice coupled with a fitted skirt, joined with a waist seam could technically be a sheath shape. deb on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024579 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 22:09:59 +0000 deb 1024579@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ And .... An A-line skirt is a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skirt" rel="nofollow">skirt</a> that is fitted at the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip" rel="nofollow">hips</a> and gradually widens towards the hem, giving the impression of the shape of a capital letter A. The term is also used to describe <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dress" rel="nofollow">dresses</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_(clothing)" rel="nofollow">coats</a> with a similar shape.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_line_skirt#cite_note-wwd-1" rel="nofollow">[1]</a> History[<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=A-line&action=edit&section=1" rel="nofollow">edit source</a> | <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=A-line&veaction=edit&section=1" rel="nofollow">editbeta</a>] The term was first used by the French <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haute_couture" rel="nofollow">couture</a> designer <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Dior" rel="nofollow">Christian Dior</a> as the label for his collection of spring 1955.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_line_skirt#cite_note-Ward_2005-2" rel="nofollow">[2]</a> The A-Line collection's feature item, then the "most wanted silhouette in Paris", was a "fingertip-length flared jacket worn over a dress with a very full, pleated skirt". <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_line_skirt#cite_note-Ward_2005-2" rel="nofollow">[2]</a> Although an A-shape, this silhouette was not identical to what is now understood to embody the A-line idea.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_line_skirt#cite_note-Ward_2005-2" rel="nofollow">[2]</a> That idea was given its definitive expression and popularized by Dior’s successor, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yves_Saint_Laurent_(designer)" rel="nofollow">Yves Saint Laurent</a>, with his "Trapeze Line" of spring 1958, which featured dresses flaring out dramatically from a fitted shoulder line.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_line_skirt#cite_note-Ward_2005-2" rel="nofollow">[2]</a> A-line clothes remained popular in the 1960s and 70s, disappeared from fashion almost completely by the early 1980s and were revived by the retro trend of the late 1990s.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_line_skirt#cite_note-Ward_2005-2" rel="nofollow">[2]</a> By that time, "A-line" was used more loosely to describe any dress wider at the hips than at the bust or waist, as well as a number of flared skirt styles.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_line_skirt#cite_note-Ward_2005-2" rel="nofollow">[2]</a> "True" A-line shapes on the pattern of Dior and Saint Laurent saw a revival in the early 2000s.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_line_skirt#cite_note-Ward_2005-2" rel="nofollow">[2]</a> deb on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024575 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 22:08:31 +0000 deb 1024575@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Ah, when all else fails, go to Wikipedia... A shirt, dress shirt, button-front, button-front shirt, or button-up shirt is a garment with a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collar_(clothing)" rel="nofollow">collar</a>, a full-length opening at the front from the collar to the hem, and sleeves with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuff" rel="nofollow">cuffs</a>. Shirts are predominantly used by men, since women usually wear <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blouse" rel="nofollow">blouses</a>. The front opening is fastened using <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buttons" rel="nofollow">buttons</a> or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirt_stud" rel="nofollow">studs</a>, and the cuffs close with buttons or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuff_links" rel="nofollow">cuff links</a>. Shirts are normally made from woven <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloth" rel="nofollow">cloth</a>, and are often accompanied by a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacket" rel="nofollow">jacket</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necktie" rel="nofollow">tie</a>, for example with a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suit_(clothing)" rel="nofollow">suit</a> or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formalwear" rel="nofollow">formalwear</a>, but shirts are also worn more casually. In <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_English" rel="nofollow">British English</a>, dress shirt means specifically the more formal evening garment worn with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_tie" rel="nofollow">black-</a> or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_tie" rel="nofollow">white-</a> tie, also discussed <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Button_down#Formal_shirts" rel="nofollow">below</a>. Some of these formal shirts have stiff fronts and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detachable_collar" rel="nofollow">detachable collars</a> attached with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collar_stud" rel="nofollow">collar studs</a>. The term "button-down" (which refers a type of shirt which has a collar fastened down by buttons<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Button_down#cite_note-1" rel="nofollow">[1]</a>) is sometimes used in error to apply to all shirts (with or without buttoned down collars), being used as a synonym for "button-up" or "button-front". Adelfa on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024557 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 21:41:04 +0000 Adelfa 1024557@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Marley, the young fashion bloggers do it a lot. These darling young things proudly refer to their bell-shaped skirts as A-line (which they wear with button-down shirts). Drives me buggy. Marley on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024554 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 21:35:36 +0000 Marley 1024554@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ What??????  I didn't know that about A-line skirts!  How can A-line cover all off those different categories?  I just don't get that! Adelfa on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024468 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 19:57:21 +0000 Adelfa 1024468@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Also, I do not know what a sack dress is. Is it a shift dress? Anything without a waist? Adelfa on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024463 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 19:53:43 +0000 Adelfa 1024463@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Vildy, I did not know that! Fit and Flare was an entirely new term to me. Isabel, lol, I think that "capri" currently means almost exacly what "midi" currently means. Anything from the bottom of the knee to an inch above the ankle. That is a fun fact, MaryK! Suz on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024462 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 19:51:56 +0000 Suz 1024462@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ That makes sense, Vildy. That's the way I remember it from sewing class, too.  And Mary -- I have had the same feeling about "button down." My husband laughs at the new terminology. I do use the phrase now here...but "twitch," as Denise says.  I knew about tea length, too. My mother's bridesmaid wore a tea length gown.  Vildy on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024458 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 19:45:33 +0000 Vildy 1024458@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Fit and Flare is the one that is jarring to me. :D  It now seems to mean just a dress with a darted, closer fit bodice, a waistline seam and then a gathered or gored skirt. We used to call this a full-skirted dress. Fit and Flare used to mean a dress without a waistline seam that fit normally over the bust (side darts, say), and then skimmed over waist and flared out to the hem - no gathered fullness. Or the same thing but starting to flare gently from under the bust. Again, no gathers or pleated fullness. MsMary on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024366 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 17:49:43 +0000 MsMary 1024366@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Fun fact:  My son is a Marine and they call their uniform shirt a "<a href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/USMC-Uniform-blouse-shirt-medium-regular-/290942945464#vi-content" rel="nofollow">blouse</a>."  Denise, "tea length" has been around for a long time.  When I got married in 1984 my bridesmaids wore tea-length dresses.  (In hot pink chiffon!  ) Isabel on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024343 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 17:06:33 +0000 Isabel 1024343@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ This is a great post !   I am constantly confused by the word "capris".  Maybe I will never get it. LOL ! When I was growing up, "neutral"  meant black, grey, white....so on.  Now I often see expressions like, " I am using red as a neutral here. "  Though I feel that way about olive, forest green and burgundy, I have a tough time kind of understanding that whole thing.  Yet somehow, we manage to dress oureselves, Adelfa.  LOL  JulieJohn on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024326 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 16:31:49 +0000 JulieJohn 1024326@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I never knew that about button-downs, MaryK! What a trip! So I've been using it incorrectly all these years. I wonder if Bob Newhart knows. (he probably does, he's very smart) ;) donnat on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024245 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 14:43:42 +0000 donnat 1024245@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Great topic, it is like a trip down memory lane. Button Down, thongs, blazer, dirndle skirt, I guess it is the evolution of language. Adelfa on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024227 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 13:47:32 +0000 Adelfa 1024227@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Gaylene, such a great list! I guess when women wore skirts more, there was a lot more variety! And yes, midis were ugly! I remember sewing myself a chartreuse Qiana midi wrap skirt which I loved. This was in 1974 so maybe I was more used to the length by then. I remember a club I was in had a dress code of no shorter than 4" above the knee! And we considered this dowdy! MaryK Rae, Lantana, I hate that use of "button-down" too! In fact the first time I heard that, my DD said it, and I thought she was making it up and I corrected her. None too nicely! I say "shirt" to myself (really "shirt-shirt") and am trying to say "button-up" to others. Denise, it seems like the term "tea length" has been in use quite recnetly. And yes, language evolves, but I guess I don't always like the direction it evolves in! When it evolves in the direction of confusion I like to register a protest! Not to mention boycott. CocoLion on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024115 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 06:08:04 +0000 CocoLion 1024115@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Languages are constantly evolving so it's no surprise meanings change.  MaryK, I too grew up thinking a button down was a type of collar but it does appear there are more meanings now.  I now regularly refer to them as button down shirts, although at first I flinched a bit.  I have also heard these shirts referred as "button up shirts."  Maybe that is better?  Or maybe "shirt" alone is enough.  I recall thinking anything that looked like a man's shirt was a shirt, so what we call a button down now.  A blouse, on the other hand, had feminine styling.  It might have a Peter Pan collar, the buttons could even be in the back, or made out of "pearls."  That would be a blouse, whereas a shirt might be part of my school uniform.  Or taking this even further, was there a time when only men wore shirts and women only wore blouses?  Perhaps in the 1950s, before women wore so many menswear inspired clothes. Now I'm really going on a tangent, but my hotel in SF has THE most antiquated cleaning slip.  First, jeans aren't even on the list!  And there are no tee shirts under the women's column, only the men's side.  But there's a box for negligees (who wears them any more?).  I think I will have to take a picture for the forum next time I'm there.  It makes me laugh every time I put stuff in the bag -- but they is the best cleaners I know of.  I actually save my cleaning and bring it to the hotel in SF to have it done. Off on another tangent -- has anyone else heard of a longer midi being referred to as "tea length?"  Some of the fuller, longer skirts in my midi thread would seem to be that. Lantana on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024114 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 06:01:56 +0000 Lantana 1024114@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I'm with Mary K, to me a "button down" means a shirt with a collar that buttons down. Otherwise it's a shirt. Or a blouse. rae on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024108 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 05:34:15 +0000 rae 1024108@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Huh. I had also thought that the definitions you and Mary put forth were still correct... guess I have no faith in people to use English correctly, lol. But still... if you use a blanket term like that, then how will you differentiate an A-line from a flare from an accordion? Or a button-down collar from regular? o_0 MsMary on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024096 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 04:50:01 +0000 MsMary 1024096@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Yes, I remember that very well!  So funny!! And while we're complaining about terminology, I always twitch when I hear people talking about "button-down shirt" when they mean "a shirt that buttons down the front."  Back in the day, a button-down shirt was a shirt, generally a men's or boys' shirt, that had a button-down collar, like in the photos.  I still can't bring myself to use the term for anything else.  If I'm referring to a shirt that buttons down the front, my impulse is to call it a, well, shirt.  ;)  If I feel the need to mention buttons, I'll call it a button-front shirt. Gaylene on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024085 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 04:23:22 +0000 Gaylene 1024085@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ OK, Suz, just to expand our skirt terminology in the interests of keeping things more precise here is what my sixties sewing guide lists under "full skirts": A-line skirts, bias skirts, gored skirts (4,6,7, and 8), gathered skirts, knife-pleated skirts, crystal-pleated skirts, trumpet skirts, umbrella skirts, box-pleated skirts (fixed and open), semi- and full-circular skirts, yoked skirts, tiered skirts, ruffle-edged skirts, culottes, kilts, wraparound skirts, buttoned-front skirts, inverted pleat skirts, godet skirts Whew! Hard to think that the term A-line now has to cover all that territory. And does anyone else remember how controversial the "midi" skirt was in the early 70s? People refused to shop at stores displaying the skirts, others wore buttons "Ban the Midi", editorials were written in support of the mini, and some of us even marched in the streets wearing our mini skirts to protest against the fashion industry trying to force us into wearing skirts that reminded us of our mothers. always trying on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024072 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 03:54:50 +0000 always trying 1024072@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Gee, I'm old, but glad I am not the only one who remembers the terms like dirndels, gore skirts, flip flops called zorries and thongs, chenel jackets, etc.  Booties and shooties are new terms.  Very few sites have special category to search shooties separately, and you find them under booties, and under pumps.  Correct me if I am wrong, but a few years back weren't tights like opaque panty hose, but some came without feet, and leggings were opaque panty hose, but thicker and always without feet, AND never worn without a tunic length top that was down to at least mini skirt length.  Terms are needed for new things like jeggins (or whatever those are called) but sure wish there weren't those generic terms for so many things. lyn* on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024071 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 03:53:22 +0000 lyn* 1024071@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I thought a blazer was navy and buttons too! :3 Adelfa on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024067 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 03:48:31 +0000 Adelfa 1024067@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Echo, that's bad, when other people's definitions differ from your own--lol! Deb, so true! I always thought "knee length" meant any length from the top to the bottom of the knee, but no more! Julie, I'll get used to the "midi" shift if I have to, but the "A-line" thing really bugs me! Suz, I didn't know that the word "blazer" was shifting!  What is the world coming to? JulieJohn on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024052 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 03:19:00 +0000 JulieJohn 1024052@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Yep, the different meanings, or lack of meaning, for "a-line" drives me crazy when trying to shop with keywords. Flip-flops were also called "zorries" when I was a kid, at least in Southern California. And they only came in the cheap foam varieties and were only sold in drugstores. :D "Leggings" in the '80s, as I recall, were sometimes very loose fitting and drapey. I had a pair of pastel pink loose leggings and a luscious cable-knit long sweater that hit below my fanny. The sweater was all swirling shades of pastels and reminded me of Disneyland's "Fantasia" ice cream. Echo on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024043 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 02:49:13 +0000 Echo 1024043@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I agree about midi skirts. When I was growing up that meant mid calf, and they were everywhere. Flattering or not, that's what everyone wore. Thongs have always been underwear to me, while flip-flops go on the feet. Yesterday's post about two-piece dresses was an oxymoron to me. I have very strict categories in my head about what constitutes skinny pants, leggings, footless tights, tights and hose, but apparently other people's definitions sometimes differ from my own. Suz on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1024020 Sun, 08 Sep 2013 02:02:17 +0000 Suz 1024020@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Laughing here!  I remember when midis were mid-calf, too! But even back then, I recall that petites were advised to fudge a midi by going just below the knee for proportions.  I also sewed an A-Line skirt and I have never got used to the idea that an A-Line is anything but what you describe, Jody. There are different names for other flared skirts -- dirndles. gathered skirts, gored skirts, circle skirts, etc. As a writer I am particular about terminology and it so it bothers me when we neglect perfectly good words in favour of a general term that is not even accurate.  Thongs -- yup. I still think of what are now called flip-flops.  Booties went on babies' feet exclusively. My mother finds the new usage so funny that she has coined a new word herself. Boot - TEEE, she calls mine.  Blazer. In my mind, a blazer is ... well... a tailored navy blue topper with gold buttons! Or something awfully similar. It makes me laugh to see kimonos fall under the "blazer" category at Zara. Or denim jackets. Or even Chanel style jackets.   deb on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1023942 Sat, 07 Sep 2013 23:54:42 +0000 deb 1023942@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I have also been confused with the term midi. Just below the knee does not look 'midi' to me at all. Oh, and thongs go on your feet. Flip-flops, what??? Adelfa on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1023928 Sat, 07 Sep 2013 23:38:05 +0000 Adelfa 1023928@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Caro, I grew up calling them thongs too, as an American in Colombia. In ninth grade in LA we said flip-flops, but by that we meant those japanese ones with a straw sole and thick velvety straps. Caro in Oz on "shifting definitions" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/shifting-definitions#post-1023914 Sat, 07 Sep 2013 23:11:37 +0000 Caro in Oz 1023914@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I had to make an a-line skirt in sewing too :) The one that threw me was "thong" . In Australia thongs were things you put on your feet to go to the beach i.e. flip-flops.