YouLookFab Forum » Topic: Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?

YouLookFab Forum » Topic: Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing? https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Mon, 06 Apr 2026 19:29:51 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 <![CDATA[Search]]> q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php anne on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1194156 Fri, 14 Mar 2014 02:20:26 +0000 anne 1194156@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I just wanted to also say that I really admire you Celia, for writing at all, let alone in a language that isn't your mother tongue. And is the same true of you Angie? Was dutch your first language? Also I agree with Rachylou on this "A lot is being lost from English, I do feel, because people don't have the words and thus the ideas" I haven't seen True Grit but some of my favourite TV series (West Wing and Gilmore Girls) I like partially because they are wordy. Angie, lots of people don't like Dickens so you are in good company. He isn't what I would choose for a relaxing down time, but I find that if I put the time in to get into the story, I find the effort worthwhile. I used to find long flights (when I travelled more) to be useful in that way. Since I got my smart phone last year I have been reading books a lot less and one of my minor aims this year is to get back into sustained novel reading. Also, your "thinking in pictures" is so useful in doing the fab job you do! I really am deficient in that area. Even just on the forum, I can only take in about 1/2 dozen posts with pictures in a day. For the rest of my reading I stick to pictureless! I am acutely aware this makes me a less useful forum member, and that even after 8 years of reading your blog I am not very advanced in fashion analysis. Also for someone who doesn't like to write, you do a wonderful job communicating clearly to us and I appreciate it so much. Angie on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1193712 Thu, 13 Mar 2014 17:57:08 +0000 Angie 1193712@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Hah. I loved reading your comments.  I'm glad the writers on this forum chimed in because clearly my POV is very unprofessional and probably quite jaded. I am not a writer, don't like to write, don't really enjoy reading books, and have no appreciation of literature. It was torturous reading Charles Dickens. I am not a wordy person at all. I think in pictures and with my heart (unfortunately not enough with my head).  Celia, thank you for your kind words. It's very interesting hearing the perspectives of the professional writers and literary appreciators. A true mind opener for both me and you. xo anne on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1193141 Thu, 13 Mar 2014 07:37:47 +0000 anne 1193141@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ It certainly doesn't have to be Celia, as has been demonstrated above. But I love finding the precise word that expresses what I want to say, and sometimes that is a long word. And while I like writers of many styles, I can cope with and enjoy reading writers like Henry James and Charles Dickens who are very wordy. But I am not I'm a writer myself - so not who you who directed your question to! Laura (rhubarbgirl) on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1191907 Tue, 11 Mar 2014 22:43:36 +0000 Laura (rhubarbgirl) 1191907@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ There's probably a bit of overflow happening, celia, with your classmates - I don't know any other languages well enough to write in them, but I've talked to friends who speak English as a second (or third!) language and their mother tongue definitely influences their writing style. I have a friend originally from Russia who complains lightheartedly that English is too spare and straightforward, and that it's harder to communicate nuance in English compared to Russian. Gaylene on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1191638 Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:36:35 +0000 Gaylene 1191638@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Good writing can take many different forms depending on the situation, purpose, and audience. If the purpose of a piece of writing is to communicate a complex idea to a non-expert, it makes sense to write using clear, simple, every-day language and to use short, uncomplicated sentence structures. Some people mistakenly think this kind of writing makes them look less intelligent because it appears, on the surface, to be easy. Anyone who has had even a minimal amount of experience writing technical manuals, directions, or explanations, however, will certainly beg to differ. As Suz says, though, literature isn't always about taking the shortest, most direct, route. Playing with words, sounds, rhythms, metaphors, and all those other elements is what makes poetry out of a language and helps us articulate those emotions and thoughts which can't easily be turned into words. In the hands of a good writer, this use of language is a delight, but, in the hands of a lazy, or inexperienced writer, this kind of writing can be a nightmare. I'd suggest that the kind of pretentious writing you are reading is a clear indication that the writers aren't yet good enough to write in an advanced style; they need to go back to practicing a simpler version. Good writing takes time, effort, and practice, otherwise it turns into the very worst kind which is lazy, pretentious writing. ETA: And the above is written in my formal, academic style April on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1191471 Tue, 11 Mar 2014 11:46:41 +0000 April 1191471@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Choosing exactly the right word is far more important than using a lot of words. ironkurtin on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1191395 Tue, 11 Mar 2014 05:05:36 +0000 ironkurtin 1191395@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ No. :) Jeanie on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1191392 Tue, 11 Mar 2014 05:00:04 +0000 Jeanie 1191392@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I am just chiming in to say that I thoroughly enjoyed your off-topic topic.  I love discovering new words in the way that Suz mentions and I envy those that have a gift for writing lavishly.  It seems there is room for different styles.  Good luck in your studies.  I struggle with coming up with enough words and English is my 1st language!  A friend once said getting your point across with few words is just as much an art as using many words that flow well.   rachylou on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190640 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 17:42:58 +0000 rachylou 1190640@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ That's interesting, Celia. If you're doing stuff for class - I don't know, maybe you want to throw in as many fancy words and constructions as possible for the practice of using them. In any case, tho, I would say modern English is said to be "good" when it's pretty spartan and simple. Raymond Carver is the first person who comes to my mind as a master of the modern voice - his voice is spare but lovely. On the other hand, I just finished this syfy/fantasy book, and I was incredibly impressed with the author's ability to use straight-up, down-right Victorian SAT words so naturally and with such ease. A lot is being lost from English, I do feel, because people don't have the words and thus the ideas. You know what (fairly) recent movie I really enjoyed watching - the remake of True Grit. Every line is just a mouthful of words. But once upon a time, people had that sort of time and packed in a lot of meaning and interest. celia on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190546 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 16:12:00 +0000 celia 1190546@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Oh dear, it seems like I started the rise of the writers :) Honestly, thank you all for your comments and insights. You gave me a lot to think about. I guess my question yesterday was very tongue-in-cheek.  I am doing some english writing courses and having to assess some of my peers work I have seen , what Suz described correctly, pretentious writing getting accolades from other students. English not being my first language I was wondering if I was missing something. Portuguese is one of those flowery languages compared to English, at least contemporary English. But I do know that English is not as simple as most people think. I will continue on my quest to write properly in English and will be looking for the books some of you mentioned in this thread. Laurinda on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190458 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 14:52:20 +0000 Laurinda 1190458@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I'll defer to Strunk & White, The Elements of Style: Vigorous writing is concise. A sentence should contain no unnecessary words, a paragraph no unnecessary sentences, for the same reason that a drawing should have no unnecessary lines and a machine no unnecessary parts. This requires not that the writer make all his sentences short, or that he avoid all detail and treat his subjects only in outline, but that he make every word tell. <div>—Elementary Principles of Composition, The Elements of Style <a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elements_of_Style">The Elements of Style</a> From Wikipedia<div><div> </div></div></div> Janet on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190425 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 14:20:30 +0000 Janet 1190425@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ LOL I'm nodding along with Suz and Irene. One of my undergraduate majors was journalism, but I've always been stronger at editing someone else's words than my own. I'm much sloppier in my writing when it comes to posting online than I should be, so take my word with a grain of salt, but I am a strong believer in concise writing. Ingunn on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190417 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 14:13:24 +0000 Ingunn 1190417@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I teach kids to write their mother tongue (Norwegian), and I always tell them that their prose should be like a clear, crisp mountain river. It must be possible to grasp the purpose of the text right away, what it communicates, and to follow their reasoning without disturbances.  All that said, I'm with Suz and others. I love how text can have rhythm, flow and also that it can offer resistance sometimes, but in the right way.  For most people the clear, quick flow of a river is the best strategy. For authors of higher standards, I welcome diversity. Irene on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190394 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 13:41:48 +0000 Irene 1190394@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Depends. Are you Vladimir Nabokov? Please, never stop. You are not Vladimir Nabokov? Proceed with caution. I am into (literary) fiction, so I usually expect some complexity in what I read. That being said, I hate it when it is obvious that an author is showing off just because, unless they truly own the style. It's like Lady Gaga dressing like Lady Gaga or me dressing like Lady Gaga. I hate complex language and sentence constructions for non-literary texts though. Suz on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190146 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 03:09:06 +0000 Suz 1190146@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ It depends on the purpose and audience.  And just as there are different aesthetic preferences in fashion, so there are in art.  Minimalist or maximalist? I think I am a bit of both. I appreciate clarity and simplicity and economy of expression; equally I love the rhythms of a long periodic sentence, the surprise of learning a new (to me) word; the challenge of an intellectually demanding argument.  What I don't love, ever, is pretension.  Gigi on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190122 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 02:43:45 +0000 Gigi 1190122@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ No, it is not necessarily better to write with really lengthy sentences and big words. I think that maybe in academics, some professors who perhaps doubt their own expertise might be tempted to write in such a style, to make themselves appear very learned. But I have known many very intelligent, learned people who believe that concise is better and write accordingly. I think a lot depends on your goal in writing also. If you want to impress, you may go the wordy route. But if you want to teach, you will probably go the direct and concise route. FWIW, I have a friend who is a lawyer and works in a court. She said that many cases that get to the court stage could have been avoided if the language of contracts and laws had been better written so as to be understandable in the first place! A lot of disputes arise over what exactly the written legal text means. So yes, lawyers are some of the worst offenders! DonnaF on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190069 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 01:24:01 +0000 DonnaF 1190069@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ If the desire is to be understood, short sentences are better.  I am convinced that I did well in college because professors could grasp what I was writing in the fifteen or so minutes they wanted to spend grading the paper.  They didn't want to struggle.  I had nothing erudite to convey.  As to words/vocabulary?  Use the most precise one for the message intended, but it need not be an obscure one. Ummmm, I hate pretentious writing.  In some cultures, an ornate style (of fiction at least) is expected so I will tolerate it there. celia on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190066 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 01:17:59 +0000 celia 1190066@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Thank you all for your words of wisdom. I do agree that for some audiences you need some sort of jargon and I do understand that sometimes to explain abstract concepts you need to qualify them with terms that are in themselves complex. I do not have a particular 'poison eye' for a certain type of writing. For example a portuguese writer that was a recipient of a Nobel Prize, Jose Saramago is tedious for me to read. However, I do recognize the mastery of his writing . The long sentences, the never ending periods, the complicated words in themselves set the rhythm to the story, situate us in a cultural context and epoch. He is marvellous, I'm just not into him. Laura (rhubarbgirl) on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190044 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 00:44:12 +0000 Laura (rhubarbgirl) 1190044@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I think it depends on what you're trying to accomplish, and who your desired audience is. Academic audiences, or MaryK's judge friend, often prize labored prose because they think it makes the writer sound smarter. I disagree, but I do agree that different audiences and different purposes call for different styles of writing. Sometimes conciseness and clarity are most important; sometimes a more ornate style communicates an aesthetic sense more by implication than by directness. Echo on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190036 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 00:34:19 +0000 Echo 1190036@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I agree that there is room for both. No one appreciates a writer intentionally making things difficult to follow, but at times the subject matter necessitates the use of "jargon" that laypeople don't always know off the top of their heads. On the other hand, there have been popular novels written at about the 4th or 5th grade reading level, and I feel some of those are ridiculously simple and at times I feel like I am reading the random musings in the notebook of a middle school child.  Good writing is good writing, though, and there are many different styles that appeal to many different readers. And sometimes a really great plot can overcome the verbosity or simplicity of the author.  Nebraskim on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190032 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 00:32:34 +0000 Nebraskim 1190032@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Although there is no one truthful answer, usually clear, simple writing is superior to dense, pretentious prose. I work in academe (university PR) and we struggle with faculty who veer toward big wordiness because 1) they think their peers expect it, and 2) they fear looking dumb. I always try to write with precision and clarity. Those who counsel you otherwise are wrong. Concentrate on good grammar, proper spelling, clarity of purpose. FWIW, although I am not a fan of Stephen King's genre of horror, I find him to be an outstanding and thoughtful writer. His semi autobiographical book called, I think, On Writing, is well worth the read by any serious writer. rabbit on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190030 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 00:28:58 +0000 rabbit 1190030@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ It's been my experience that clear concise writing is valued pretty much everywhere (except sometimes in academia - which can be very frustrating). There are fiction writers whose writing style is known for incorporating obscure words, like the Gormenghast series.  But they are writing in specific genres and it's part of how they do world-building. celia on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190022 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 00:23:47 +0000 celia 1190022@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ MaryK, I have worked with lawyers and, in my opinion, they are the worst offenders. Sometimes I would point out some basic subject verb agreement but they had been saying it for so long, mixed with other big words, that everything remained the same. Mo on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190021 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 00:23:25 +0000 Mo 1190021@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I think there's room for both.  John Updike vs Stephen King if you will. celia on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190016 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 00:21:23 +0000 celia 1190016@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Angie, you are an excellent communicator, that is one of the things that makes YLF a success. You made me realize that the way we communicate our ideas is intrinsically related to the way we are. MsMary on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190015 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 00:20:48 +0000 MsMary 1190015@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ No, absolutely not. I am reminded, though, of the job I had some  years ago as research attorney (read "ghostwriter") for a very distinguished justice on our state Court of Appeal.  I was always sprinkling commas into the opinions quite liberally, in the interest of readability.  And he was always taking them out, in the interest of following some grammar rule or other.   When I explained that I thought my commas made the opinions easier to understand, he replied, "I know.  They do.  But I figure if we work this hard to write the opinions, the readers can jolly well work hard to read them!"  LOL celia on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190006 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 00:15:07 +0000 celia 1190006@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Thanks for your answer Liz. It is not that I want to be right , it's more that I was starting to doubt myself about this. I love to read and I would love to write better, but I was wondering what 'better' might really be. Angie on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1190002 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 00:13:02 +0000 Angie 1190002@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I do NOT appreciate verbosity, erudite writing and complex sentence structure at all. I switch off completely. And do not read text like that. Ever. Anywhere.  Sentences must be short, crisp and simple in order to hold my attention irrespective of the topic.  Liz on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1189995 Mon, 10 Mar 2014 00:07:14 +0000 Liz 1189995@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Goodness, no! It's far harder to write well, clearly, short, and simply than to write with a lot of complex and erudite fluff. The writer who can make simple words sing ... ah. That's rare.  celia on "Question for the writers: Does good writing has to be difficult writing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/question-for-the-writers-does-good-writing-has-to-be-difficult-writing#post-1189986 Sun, 09 Mar 2014 23:59:03 +0000 celia 1189986@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I am sorry for this so off topic subject but I have been steaming on this subject for the past 20 years and have to ask someone. I am asking you about english but the same goes for portuguese.  Do you think that a well written text has to be full of erudite words and very complicated sentence construction? I do appreciate a well written work, that gives enough action and elements to the scenes or subject it describes, but sometimes as a reader, I feel like the writer is just showing off how much vocabulary he/she has. The equivalent of flexing your muscle just to show off. Sorry again for the rant but I would like your opinion. Thank you.