https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Sat, 18 Apr 2026 04:21:09 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/4#post-1637823 Fri, 01 Apr 2016 12:08:29 +0000 approprio 1637823@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I honestly thought we'd exhausted this topic, but no, more ideas keep on coming!&nbsp;</p> <p><b>JAileen, Deb</b>, thanks for the sports shots. I've noticed similar trends in soccer. (I kind of like the tiny shorts, they make me feel nostalgic). It's a really interesting observation, particularly considering the way that translates to urban sportswear.</p> <p>I'm intrigued by menswear=loose/long vs womenswear=short/tight, alongside the American feminist narrative around showing one's body. I did a quick and completely unscientific study of styles on lookbook.nu, and there does appear to be a trend among users on the West Coast towards more revealing and bodycon styles, which you're less likely to see in Europe.</p> <p>Another thing: we were talking here in IRL about the idea that looser clothing might suggest that a woman had "let herself go" as it were, which goes against current ideas about body positivity and empowerment. This is also part of my own internal narrative, maybe a reason for my feeling a little sheepish about posting these looks here. They feel to me quite relaxed and effortless, but to another eye that might translate as just plain lazy.&nbsp; </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/4#post-1637786 Fri, 01 Apr 2016 10:50:34 +0000 lyn67 1637786@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thanx Appropro, I see now !:-). </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/4#post-1637619 Fri, 01 Apr 2016 01:48:10 +0000 DonnaF 1637619@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>approprio; I just wanted to say I LOVE your style and WIWs -- so very interesting, unique, and YOU.&nbsp; I don't do and have never done bodycon, but I s'pose I can say the same thing about oversized and loose.&nbsp; Well, I'm too clumsy to favor that look.&nbsp; But I must say that at this stage of my life, age (almost) 63 with gray hair, if I wore something hectically oversized I would probably end up looking like a hobo.&nbsp; If I were 30 or 40 years younger, hugely oversized would probably appeal to me as a political statement if I wanted to be dramatic.&nbsp; Now, I prefer fun over dramatic. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/4#post-1637508 Thu, 31 Mar 2016 21:10:21 +0000 Jules 1637508@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Yes rachylou, you are right that there are now more expectations on (young?) men around removing body hair, a sad development IMHO. And women are totally capable of body shaming men. But I was thinking more about bathing suits and bikini lines, specifically - that the default design for women's suits often reveals hair considered to be private/obscene, whereas whatever hair men's trunks reveal is considered basically acceptable, if unattractive to some. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/4#post-1637499 Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:30:28 +0000 rachylou 1637499@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>One other thought: was driving today through the city's downtown and had a look at all the fashions. There really is a difference between oversized and just big. I think it shows up in rumpling. There are folds, there is crinkled fabric, and then there are wrinkles and crumples. But I can see easily how one might try to go for oversized and just get big pulling things off your standard rack... </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/4#post-1637489 Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:17:07 +0000 rachylou 1637489@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Ok, so I prefer the new basketball shorts to the old ones, lol, but I don't want to see them on the street, lolol. Those tiny tiny little shorts make me laugh. I feel like they fun-house mirror people.</p> <p>Also: Jules, I was struck by your comment about no one expecting men to remove body hair (I think I read this, could be my imagination). Struck because in my metro area, men ARE expected to do so. Men are featured in ads for hair removal products and everyone feels free to complain about hairy guys and how gross that is. People turn down dates if a guy has chest hair. There is so little hair on anybody, it's like everybody is pre-adolescent. It's striking. But this is an area that pushes hard to make the point about goose and gander. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/4#post-1637466 Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:01:41 +0000 Elizabeth P 1637466@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Another very late to the thread person here.&nbsp; I also have nothing intelligent to add in terms of style, designers etc but I did want to say how much I've enjoyed the conversation here, VERY thought provoking.&nbsp; And most importantly, how much I love seeing your posts, and outfits.&nbsp; I love your style.&nbsp; And interestingly enough, the thought of how "flattering" your clothes may be to your body, never crossed my mind.&nbsp; I see style, art, a look, that seems to totally work.&nbsp; It flatters, without the&nbsp; dimensions/proportions etc of your actual BODY being relevant.&nbsp; Which is not always the case, and certainly not how I put together MY outfits.</p> <p> </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/4#post-1637457 Thu, 31 Mar 2016 17:19:02 +0000 JAileen 1637457@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Deb, I love her dress. I would wear it today. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/4#post-1637456 Thu, 31 Mar 2016 17:05:26 +0000 deb 1637456@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>JAileen, here is another basketball photo from the 70's. Notice the woman in the background and her dress style vs. the mens uniforms? </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/4#post-1637449 Thu, 31 Mar 2016 16:31:08 +0000 Aida 1637449@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Perhaps in some degree because exposing more skin is now associated as a more feminine look? </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/4#post-1637426 Thu, 31 Mar 2016 15:42:01 +0000 JAileen 1637426@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I happened upon this thread, and Jules' comments about men's clothing, VPL, etc. It reminded me of an article in the SF Chronicle I saw yesterday about the Warriors' uniforms. What I noticed most was how the uniforms have gotten bigger and longer, the opposite of the trend in women's clothes. Also, notice they're actually playing in Converse shoes in the old picture! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/3#post-1637415 Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:50:29 +0000 Jules 1637415@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>And I am also now understanding normcore a bit better, I think... these clothes are less body con and less gendered. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/3#post-1637409 Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:42:27 +0000 Jules 1637409@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>My own rant just helped me realize something... "flattery" and "fitting in" are part and parcel, for me. I am not a strong enough personality to want to stand out much in my appearance. I have other issues (being in a male dominated profession, social anxieties) that make me feel enough "apart" already, I think. And when I see someone who has truly rejected flattery fundamentals, let's say an older, larger woman who does not wear a bra, to me that does stand out in a way that *I* really don't want to.<br />btw, I love your looks approprio. Nor do I relate to the "why do you want to hide your pretty figure"-type comments that have been under discussion lately. But I personally need to fit in <i>just enough</i> and some degree of conventional "flattery" seems to be a part of it. Interesting.</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/3#post-1637401 Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:23:12 +0000 approprio 1637401@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p><b>Jules</b>: thank you! I too find it problematic that these standards are upheld, and that baring our flesh is seen as the liberal, progressive thing to do when nobody holds men to up to such scrutiny. And frankly,&nbsp;I think it would make everybody happier if men were required to take more care of their appearance!</p> <p><b>lyn67</b>: this is what I'm talking about when I say menswear should be more like womenswear and vice versa.</p> <p></p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/3#post-1637398 Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:18:13 +0000 Jules 1637398@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Bear with me as this may be somewhat tangential and I'm not feeling very articulate these days....<br /> In my mid twenties (so 2000ish) I noticed with some resentment that so many pants now contained stretch. Today I get that there is demand for this "flattering" (to some) development in fabrics but really, whatever happened to denim and other thick 100% cotton fabrics, and looser cuts, that skim over rather than clinging to? Why is there even a need for women to worry about "VPL" - I don't think this was a thing for generations past? Men are not wearing clothing that shows their underwear line!<br /> Similarly, in a bathing suit, I'd be personally just as happy in board shorts (and some kind of top) as a women's suit of any type. It is about personal body issues to some degree - my shape has never matched most bathing suit cuts - but nobody is expecting men to shave the body hair to be socially acceptable in their standard bathing costume. So why are women expected to bare so much that hair removal is "required"?<br /> It's interesting to me that while I believe women's clothes have overall trended more bare and bodycon during my lifetime, men's clothes have possibly gotten bigger and looser. Men and boys only wear board shorts for swimming, not skimpier bottoms. Men don't wear short shorts even for exercise. Most women seem to agree they "don't want to see that" when it comes to men. Well, I don't want to show it either.<br /> But it's very difficult to reject the current standards and still have a flattering, current look. I'm not looking to stand out from the crowd and attract a lot of attention to myself/the way I am dressed. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/3#post-1637392 Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:04:54 +0000 approprio 1637392@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p><b>lisap</b>, I've been asking myself some similar questions. Why do I always want to look so resolutely individual? Might people find my style confusing or intimidating? Is it regressive to want to wear big clothes?&nbsp;</p> <p>I've had in mind a comment you made in another thread though...</p> <p>"I do think you are bang on with the theory of aesthetic preferences being influenced and even determined by what you already know to be flattering . I absolutely operate that way. I don't think there's anything wrong with that unless one's goal is to constantly reinvent, investigate and create. I'm not interested in always trying every new thing that crosses my path - who has the time?"</p> <p>I do like to&nbsp;reinvent, investigate and create as you put it, and hey, big clothes happen to look good on me, so it makes sense that I've acquired a capsule of oversized clothes that suit me and feel relevant. I must say though, that I'm also swayed by fashion, the desire to look conventionally attractive and the need to fit in. So I don't think I've ever fully committed to the silhouette.&nbsp;</p> <p>But I tell you what, I'm liking it right now. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/3#post-1637389 Thu, 31 Mar 2016 13:38:38 +0000 Anonymous 1637389@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Not that this thread needs any more input to keep it going, but I just wanted to come back to say I have read almost every word posted here and even thought about it yesterday while mindlessly driving (not a good thing ) somewhere. &nbsp;I was wondering what my own motivations were for dressing as I do, and why I wasn't drawn to a more voluminous, artistic, avant garde, etc style. &nbsp;Am I succumbing to pressures I feel from some unidentified source? Am I being unimaginative and just following the herd? &nbsp;And who do we/I really dress for? Ourselves? &nbsp;Other women? &nbsp;Men? &nbsp;etc. &nbsp;The conversation could carry on for ever. &nbsp;Talk about insightful.</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/3#post-1637382 Thu, 31 Mar 2016 13:14:47 +0000 approprio 1637382@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p><b>lyn67:&nbsp;</b>my thoughts on menswear/womenswear?&nbsp;that's a whole new thread right there! </p> <p>Put simply, it's not about loosing the gender distinction, more about how two very different ways of thinking about dress could learn so much from each other and be improved in the process. But I'll leave that for another time. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/3#post-1637376 Thu, 31 Mar 2016 13:00:12 +0000 lyn67 1637376@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>What &nbsp;a fascinating thread, indeed, will have to fight me over all these wise comments, too:-).</p> <p>I surely &nbsp;couldn't add more than all of these, and I love lagen/oversized looks on &nbsp;you and others (and find it very individual, artsy and generally fashion forward) but there are 2 reasons which make me &nbsp;stay away from this style for my own persona:</p> <p>1. I don't have <b>the body, the right posture, and the lifestyle</b>&nbsp;for doing it right...:-(.</p> <p>2. You say it so well well "&nbsp;there’s a blurring of the boundaries that brings a lot more androgynous styles into play, <b>particularly among younger people" &nbsp;</b>but I am closer to 50&nbsp;and I would be afraid to be considered a fashion/or anti-ageing victim.<b><br /></b><br />Than, I was also wondering about your statement in one of your answers here:<br />" I’ve long thought <b>menswear should be more like womenswear and vice versa...</b>".&nbsp;</p> <p>Can I &nbsp;ask what started you on these intriguing thoughts? Just curious:-)).</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/3#post-1637204 Wed, 30 Mar 2016 21:39:48 +0000 deb 1637204@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I really need to thank you again for this thread. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/3#post-1637201 Wed, 30 Mar 2016 21:37:38 +0000 Aida 1637201@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Very much enjoyed reading this thread! I wrestle with oversized versus not all the time. Nodding along to many of the thoughts here, and echoing the sentiment of enjoying your creative outfits Approprio.&nbsp; You do volume, oversized, and architecture <i>really well</i>, and always intelligently. </p> </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/3#post-1637181 Wed, 30 Mar 2016 20:32:47 +0000 approprio 1637181@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p><b>Una</b>: thanks for the links. I've never had much truck with pretty myself, but I'm alright with her naughty cousins cute, kitsch and kawaii.</p> <p><b>annagybe</b>: you're right, gender roles are very conflicted in Japan. I have the impression people use fashion as an outlet for some of the tension and frustration that creates.&nbsp;</p> <p><b>Janet, skylurker</b>: I think a lot of people won't have the time or patience to read the whole thread, and that would be a pity because there's a lot of good stuff here. I'll post something tomorrow if there are no objections.</p> <p><b>Roxana</b>: thanks! You have a lovely style yourself </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/3#post-1637158 Wed, 30 Mar 2016 19:15:24 +0000 Anonymous 1637158@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>If we never look past the cover of a book how we really know what is inside. &nbsp;We all have our own unique style so celebrate it, life is too short to worry about what everyone else think's is cool or dope ect. &nbsp;You be cool.</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/3#post-1637142 Wed, 30 Mar 2016 18:23:18 +0000 Roxanna 1637142@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Can I just say that I have been loving this thread and following it all the way through; just felt a bit out of my depth in terms of fashion theory and historical knowledge so I didn't comment. I will say, though approprio, that I *love* your style and it is one of my inspirations and aspirations (my other is the very traditional Audrey Hepburn/french girl look, and yet another is returning to my Indian girl roots - I am a cornucopia of opposing ideas )<br />&nbsp;I &nbsp;absolutely do not feel that you should dress to show off certain body features or fit a conventional description of 'flattering' if that is not your thing, and you are all the more interesting for it. It takes time, skill, resources and expertise to step outside the box the way you have, and I love seeing that. Keep it coming! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/3#post-1637081 Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:14:12 +0000 skylurker 1637081@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Very interesting piece about masks. I wonder if clothes don't work mostly in the opposite way : encouraging to conform to social norms instead of encouraging to violate social norms.<br /> Also linked to the "enclothed cognition" Angie mentioned in her Monday post, or "clothing making the man" as Rachylou said.<br /> Though I admit I don't really believe in the magic of clothes, except for specific instances when you embody an institution (magistrate wig, police uniform...). Well, maybe you have to believe in it for the magic to work - for clothes to lift your spirits or improve your self-esteem. I've not felt that effect personally.</p> <p>As for the digest, if you need it to marshall your thoughts, sure, but I don't think it's necessary, the whole thread is interesting. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/3#post-1637073 Wed, 30 Mar 2016 15:35:30 +0000 annagybe 1637073@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I can't find the designer vision blurb. But there's a new tiny fashion line out of Portland, Oregon. Basically from memory it was something about clothes that were the antithesis of sexy &amp; meant to make the body shape obscured. I however did not get a modesty vibe. </p> <p><a href="http://www.francesmay.com/collections/vendors?q=Howard" rel="nofollow">http://www.francesmay.com/coll.....s?q=Howard</a></p> <p>I think it takes a supreme amount of confidence to wear such clothes.<br /> And yes like other said there is some things specific to America that makes these looks difficult for many.<br /> Jewelry designer Wendy Brandes, who lives in New York. once bemoaned getting a makeover in LA that was the LA asthetic, Kardashian like. Smokey eyes, nude lips, lots of bronzer, etc. she preferred bright lipstick and more simple eye makeup. Kinda funny to think of regional differences.<br /> Japan is small, and more homogeneous In my opinion. So perhaps different dressing is a way to distinguish yourself, see also harajuki. This may be changing, but until recently I understood that women in Japan stopped working after getting married. A few years ago there was a piece on Decora style in Japan, the women featured were single. One was in her thirties, &amp; lived with her parents. The corporate look is very uniform, see salarymen. Admittedly this is pure speculation on my part.<br /> For me personally I do get some flack for wearing "unflattering clothes". </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/3#post-1637051 Wed, 30 Mar 2016 14:42:48 +0000 catgirl 1637051@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Yes, compilation of posts would be wonderful.&nbsp; Thank you for all the insight and&nbsp;food for thought here!</p> <p>I am so tired from an overnight flight followed by a 6AM work shift that I'm just going to link to two of my prior threads which I believe tie into this discussion as well:</p> <p><a href="http://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/lagenlook-flattery-and-social-obligations-as-women" rel="nofollow">http://youlookfab.com/welookfa.....s-as-women</a></p> <p><a href="http://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/do-you-aim-for-pretty" rel="nofollow">http://youlookfab.com/welookfa.....for-pretty</a></p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/3#post-1637047 Wed, 30 Mar 2016 14:31:35 +0000 Janet 1637047@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I like that idea very much. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/3#post-1637045 Wed, 30 Mar 2016 14:28:12 +0000 approprio 1637045@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Wow! This discussion has been so instructive and given me a lot to think about. I can honestly say I've learned a lot here and I'm still pondering over the implications.&nbsp;</p> <p>For my own benefit, I went back over the thread and compiled a summary of some of the most interesting comments, mainly so I could preserve <b>shevia's</b> bon mot for posterity. The whole thread is so full of insight, wisdom and opinion that I ended up with quite a long document.&nbsp;</p> <p>It's worth reading in its entirety of course, but I was wondering if there would be an appetite for a tl;dr digest of this as a separate post, a celebration of the collective wisdom of YLF for anyone who may have missed it.&nbsp;</p> <p>What do you think?</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/praise-and-blame-for-the-oversized-for-gaylene/page/3#post-1636963 Wed, 30 Mar 2016 05:27:19 +0000 rachylou 1636963@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>What a good essay on masks! Thanks for the tip off, approprio! The thought of one's whole personality being a particular assemblage of masks is something to give pause...! But more to the point, interesting about the idea of short cuts for signaling and the idea of permissions granted through masks. Clothing as a mask - not in the sense of hiding - but in these other ways and clothing making the man, so to speak... Lots to chew on. </p>