https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-world-politics-sort-of-clothing-related Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Fri, 08 May 2026 09:08:51 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-world-politics-sort-of-clothing-related#post-115947 Sat, 09 Jan 2010 20:39:27 +0000 RoseandJoan 115947@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I just find it odd, in a fast paced time of change, people are looking to define their cultures by their recent past. Britain has such a rich cultural heritage, having been invaded and occupied so many times in it's history, that to define what it is to be English, or French or American based on it's recent past appears crude.</p> <p>I am very aware of how lucky I am do be born into loving family in a developed country, would I be so keen to hold onto my tradtions if I were born into poverty, starvation or civil war.</p> <p>I guess my unease of this propsed legislation stems from my hatred of bullying, I hate to think of anyone or group being bullied. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-world-politics-sort-of-clothing-related#post-115915 Sat, 09 Jan 2010 17:26:43 +0000 Maya 115915@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Interesting. I'm inclined to say that if you're in favor of "Western Enlightenment" values, then you should value policies that support them. This policy does not.</p> <p>This isn't a discussion about "rights" really. Nations have the right to pass whatever legislation they want, whether it is stoning adulterers or banning garments. But whatever they pass, they have to take the heat that comes with it. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-world-politics-sort-of-clothing-related#post-115720 Fri, 08 Jan 2010 23:39:26 +0000 Mojo Riley 115720@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I have a lot of thoughts on this subject but I'll keep it very brief. At one time I think I would have defended the far left, ultra-liberal, "we can all just be one big happy family" line of reasoning. At one time I would have gotten behind the notion that we in the West need to defend all manner of behavior not in keeping with our own cultural heritage because, hey, aren't we all just so advanced and tolerant- but to say I've changed my mind would be an understatement. </p> <p>I will say that I agree with Louise. </p> <p>The French have every right to determine for themselves what is and what is not "French." Just as the Iranians (and every other culture) have a right to determine what is and what is not representative of Iranian values. This legislative measure did not come out of nowhere. The "nationalistic fervor" that has seized much of Europe has not come out of nowhere. </p> <p>I am not a cultural relativist. I do not believe that all values or cultural traditions are worthy of respect. I respect their right to HOLD different values, but I am under no moral imperative to respect the values themselves. I realize that is an incendiary statement, but I will stand behind it. I am quite fond of Western, Enlightenment values, and have no desire to live under any other philosophical paradigm, and I believe that the French are WELL within their rights in regards to this issue. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-world-politics-sort-of-clothing-related#post-115673 Fri, 08 Jan 2010 22:15:28 +0000 shana 115673@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Ditto on what Maya says. There's alot of trouble brewing all over Europe - not just France. As much as I love visiting &amp; vacationing, this is why I could never live there permanently (though my husband always hopes I'll change my mind). I know that we have issues here too but we are, after all, an immigrant country so there is not the same sense of nationalistic fervor that is present in many countries in Europe. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-world-politics-sort-of-clothing-related#post-115661 Fri, 08 Jan 2010 22:01:45 +0000 Angie 115661@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I have many opposing thoughts on this topic - my pendulum swings! I think that everyone makes an excellent point. At the end of the day, I guess that legislation is bewildering on so many levels. </p> <p>I really enjoyed reading the comments - especially Medusa's take on France. Having lived there too - I REALLY GET IT.</p> <p>Thanks, Julie. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-world-politics-sort-of-clothing-related#post-115571 Fri, 08 Jan 2010 14:54:56 +0000 RoseandJoan 115571@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thanks ladies, I am still rather bewildered this legislation is being contemplated. Your clear thoughts have been helpful. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-world-politics-sort-of-clothing-related#post-115521 Fri, 08 Jan 2010 04:52:25 +0000 Vani 115521@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Aah, I came here to echo the same thoughts as Maya's. She is always so eloquent :-)</p> <p>How can you call yourself a developing country if you adopt the mind set of the so called third world/ developing nations? </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-world-politics-sort-of-clothing-related#post-115506 Fri, 08 Jan 2010 04:11:10 +0000 Maya 115506@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>This is institutionalized racism under the guise of safety and security. Discrimination against Muslims is rampant here and abroad since 9/11. Currently piece of legislation is being re-introduced that would make racial profiling legal in order to target young Muslim men and most people are in favor of it.</p> <p>The argument that we would have to dress according to (for example) Iran's dress code if we visited would be valid, except that we claim to hold ourselves to a different and higher standard than Iran. We (both Britain and the US) value freedom and choice above all else. Iran does not. If Iran imposes these restrictions, it might not be ok, but it isn't hypocritical--it is entirely consistent with the rest of their policies and principles. If we do, we are hypocrites, because it goes against our principles. We can't truly say that we value freedom unless we are prepared to hear and see some things we may not necessarily like. I personally don't like the burqa. I find it offensive as a woman. But I also find sleazy crotch-scraping dresses (when worn alone) offensive, yet there is no discussion of banning those. Who are we to talk about degrading clothing? We have an abundance of it at the other extreme end of the spectrum. There was a great Daily Show episode regarding that comparison..but I digress...</p> <p>I believe the pro-ban argument is that weapons and bombs can be (and have been) hidden underneath burqas. IMO, the only way to make this legislation fair is to ban ALL religious garments and symbols. Still not my preference, but at least it doesn't target one group. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-world-politics-sort-of-clothing-related#post-115347 Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:41:40 +0000 Sihaya 115347@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I wouldn't want the government to tell me what to wear or how to wear it as long as it doesn't impinge on someone else's safety/rights. Period. </p> <p>I grew up in a place where many women wore burkas. I think it's perfectly fine for a woman to choose what to wear. I think the issue is that in many of these cases, I knew several of these women (especially the younger ones) would not wear one had it not been for the societal pressures and pressures from the men (fathers, husbands, brothers) and older women (moms, mothers in law). They really didn't have a choice but to wear it if they wanted to be part of that society and not ostracized and remain spinsters for the rest of their lives. Again, I'm not saying a govt should come in and "rescue" these women. I just want to raise the point that for many of these women, while it might be by choice - the margin of choice is rather slim. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-world-politics-sort-of-clothing-related#post-115333 Thu, 07 Jan 2010 20:52:09 +0000 Louise 115333@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>In a muslim country i would have to observe their cultural values covering my arms, head etc should they not be expected to abide by the values of the countries they are in? Food for thought x</p> <p>Edit- that possibly sounds a bit racist, it wasn't meant to be. I couldn't be bothered what anyone wears, just looking at it from another perspective </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-world-politics-sort-of-clothing-related#post-115332 Thu, 07 Jan 2010 20:50:16 +0000 medusa 115332@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I've thought about this a bit because it was debated a lot even when I lived in France 9 years ago.</p> <p>First, it just strikes me as SO French. My personal experience was that France is a very homogeneous country in that people there believe it's appropriate to decide (through lots of open debate) what it really means to be French. Once it's been decided, it's acceptable to expect everyone in the country to follow that definition of French-ness. In the US there is much more of a tradition of regional variations and local control, and those differences are celebrated. For example, there is a national school curriculum in France and that would definitely not fly in the US.</p> <p>Second, I think that anti-veil/burka clothing legislation is racist. There are nuns who wear full habits - their faces aren't covered, but much more of their body is covered by a habit than by if they wore a traditional veil. I can't imagine anyone trying to outlaw the clothing of white European nuns.</p> <p>Third, I think that wearing a burka or being in a society where many women wear one would be incredibly interesting. I've wanted to try it for a long time. It's a bit like a school uniform, in that it takes away all of your choice and therefore also your worry about what to wear. There are some women who find it liberating to be in public but also hidden in their appearance. I can see the appeal of this, especially in societies where women are considered at fault if they experience sexual assault. Being hidden, and therefore less exposed to the male gaze, would have its benefits. I don't think it's appropriate to tell those women that their choices are invalid or illegal.</p> <p>Fourth, I think that any legislation of what people wear is wrong. Probably this reflects my American tendency to shout FREEDOM! but I do think people should have autonomy over their bodies, including how they dress. Dress codes for school or work are different because people who dislike them can (theoretically) choose other schools or workplaces. But legislation? I just think it's too much.</p> <p>Fifth, I think that treating anyone badly because of what s/he wears is wrong. All people deserve respectful treatment, whether it's a man in an expensive suit, a woman in a burka, or someone wearing a burlap sack or a giant duck suit. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-world-politics-sort-of-clothing-related#post-115330 Thu, 07 Jan 2010 20:47:18 +0000 marianna 115330@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I think it is absolutely ridiculous to fine a woman for wearing a burka and to compare it to a walking coffin is absurd. A woman should be able to wear whatever she wants to wear without facing repercussions. I don't see a burka as a garment that oppresses women as some women choose to dress this way. It's all about freedom of choice in the end - a woman should have the choice/ability to do/wear whatever she wants. It becomes an issue when the woman is forced to do something unwillingly. Men's wardrobe choices and liberties are never attacked -- why are women's rights constantly under attack? </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-world-politics-sort-of-clothing-related#post-115326 Thu, 07 Jan 2010 20:40:46 +0000 chewyspaghetti 115326@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Well, I am torn on the measure. If there is an eye covering, as this article describes- then it could be a safety issue. I certainly don't want a woman driving with a veil over her eyes. The article also says that this particular type of veiling is not prescribed by religion and that they are still free to wear a full covering without the eye veil.<br /> Clothing is already resitricted in many ways, though- uniforms, dress codes, etc. I remember going into a club once where they didn't allow hats. Policies of "No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service" are for public health. I worked at Disneyland in the wardrobe dept, and on Grad Nights we would require a certain dress coe. If the students came innapropriately attired, they would have to wear our clothing instead. Civil liberties are all well and good until they impinge upon someone else's civil liberties. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-world-politics-sort-of-clothing-related#post-115324 Thu, 07 Jan 2010 20:31:14 +0000 RoseandJoan 115324@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I was literally floored by this article today and thought I would share it<br /> <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/6946579/Women-who-wear-burkas-in-France-face-700-fine.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....-fine.html</a><br /> Such a huge debate, but leaving religion aside is a Burka not just a piece of fabric? What if the government deemed some of your clothing inappropriate and fined you? Is this against your civil liberties?</p> <p>In the UK hoodies, people who wear hooded garments have been ostracized, is this fair? Is this right?</p> <p>Yet people will argue that your clothing choices are inconsequential and it is vain to consider your appearance. </p> <p>Are you left a little uneasy by this? </p>