https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Thu, 07 May 2026 04:37:16 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt/page/2#post-147842 Sun, 25 Apr 2010 19:59:25 +0000 Kristine 147842@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Katie and Angie, I'm so sorry for your losses. I'm close to my mom and I dread the day she won't be here (or I won't be here). It's so important to not take your parents, and your kids, for granted! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt/page/2#post-147750 Sun, 25 Apr 2010 16:06:09 +0000 Maya 147750@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I have actually thought "Lucie 2012" in my head several times. She is a true independent. A maverick, if you will. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt/page/2#post-147745 Sun, 25 Apr 2010 16:01:54 +0000 Angie 147745@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Katie, your story resonated with me and I'm glad you posted it. My Mum was diagnosed with 4th stage liver cancer and was gone in 12 weeks (she died at 59 which is almost 10 years ago). This event changed my life. Like you, I reevaluated everything that was important to me, and think about the world differently now. Bless you for giving your family top priority. They are fortunate to receive extra special Katie attention.</p> <p>AJ and Julie, thank you for imparting your wisdom upon me. I appreciate it. </p> <p>Maya, you'll get my vote for President if Lucie is your vice. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt/page/2#post-147674 Sun, 25 Apr 2010 07:37:42 +0000 RoseandJoan 147674@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Katiepea, there is great empathy on the forum, your life will resonate with many, I'm sorry you were robbed of time with your Mum.</p> <p>AJ, I think you have hit upon a key issue of choice, many people due to the cost of living need to work, or alternatively the cost of childcare force a parent to stay at home. To have the choice to do what is right for your family in terms of raising children is something as a society which needs to be worked on.</p> <p>I had no choice but to work part time, but since the recession and Ben's enforced pay cut I am so relieved I am also earning. I would have liked the choice to work fewer hours but it is simply not an option. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt/page/2#post-147617 Sun, 25 Apr 2010 04:26:57 +0000 AJ 147617@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>When we started to have kids, I was ready to retire from the working world! I don't feel pressured to stay at home with the kids. I feel fortunate that we can get by on one income in order for me to be here with them.</p> <p>Granted, as with any job in or out of the home, there are dreary tasks to do but since we took our time to have children, I really wanted to focus on the goal that I am raising future adults...someone's future spouse, future parent, future mentor. They are not just byproducts of my marriage, they are potential blessings to someone's life.</p> <p>At the same time, I do dedicate some time to pursue passions and interests that are beyond my mothering duties and circles of friends. Being a mom is not all I am, but it is an important, albeit temporary, dedication of nurturing these young impressionable apprentices of mine. So at this time in my life, the scale must and should tilt a bit more towards raising them than into self pursuits. </p> <p>I've always been a people watcher and interested in what makes people tick and what matters in the end. The answer I always get pointed towards is relationships and making memories with the ones you love. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt/page/2#post-147591 Sun, 25 Apr 2010 00:04:24 +0000 Isabel 147591@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>For me it is that I feel guilty that my husband works really hard to support us. That is the truth and I feel that I have to at least meet a minimum standard. He doesn't get to have someone help him if work gets tough, he doesn't get to take a walk in the middle of the day..........though my days are filled with taking care of our nuclear family as well as my parents and my sister ( who is disabled ).</p> <p>At the same time, I used to do what he does now ( same job ) and he says he would rather do his job than be at home with the kids. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt/page/2#post-147564 Sat, 24 Apr 2010 22:26:41 +0000 Katiepea 147564@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>It's funny, I actually came on here this morning to delete my story as I woke up feeling that it was probably a bit too personal and 'raw' to share. This is an uplifting forum, not a forum to make people feel sad. </p> <p>However, if my story manages to be a "stop-check" for a mother with adult children who was a SAHM who now lives with regret and now feels the whole "grass is greener on the other [career] side"; maybe makes a SAHM feel a bit better that it's ok to have children/family as "your career" (an older friend in fact calls herself a "professional grandmother"! :-)); or create a moment of reflection for a working mum caught on the merry-go-round of life/career, then the post has been worthwhile, so I'll leave it there for a while. x </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt/page/2#post-147540 Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:28:06 +0000 Jenava 147540@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>LOL, Maya you are so cute! I wish you would become president some day! </p> <p>My parents ran a retail shop for the first 17 years of my life. When I was in grade school my mom went to nursing school, and then worked nights. I never really thought about how this affected me until later when I started to question my own direction in life. When I have kids I want to make sure to have enough time to guide them and help them learn about themselves. My parents were too busy and even though they loved my siblings and I very much I do feel like I ended up taking a very long road to learning to really feel confident about who I am. And, in fact, so have my siblings. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt/page/2#post-147523 Sat, 24 Apr 2010 19:37:52 +0000 Maya 147523@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>What a heartbreaking story Katie *hugs*. Thank you for sharing though. It just shows how complex this issue is.</p> <p>So, a while back on BBCI, I saw a story about how different countries handle parental leave (I say parental and not maternity and you will see why). There was some kind of trade-off system where the mother would stay home with the baby for the first 6 months? Year? I don't remember. Then the father would take leave and stay home while mom went back to work. And this was paid leave, too. I think it continued this way for a certain amount of time but I don't remember what that was. This was in one of the Scandinavian countries, or maybe the Netherlands or Switzerland...I don't remember (obviously I don't remember a lot of details and can't find the article, but you get the most important part of it).</p> <p>Sooo....when I am president, I would (first of all eliminate Congress since they would just get in my way) enact a similar law. Mom and Dad trade off staying home until baby reaches 12 years old. Since I would be a fantastic president and put money to good use, no one would mind paying taxes and there would be plenty of money to pay off our debts to China, pay for parental leave, and fund a free cupcakes for all program. I'm sure all of you would vote for me. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt/page/2#post-147437 Sat, 24 Apr 2010 14:32:09 +0000 Mellllls 147437@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I'm not a MOTG although I will be someday (like 3 years or so). But I do wonder how I will handle being one when I can barely keep my life together as it is.<br /> Katiepea, you story made me cry. I'm only two years into my career but to be honest, I don't have a huge desire to "move up". I think moving up would be at the expense of time with my family and future children and I'm not sure I want that. To me, that's the balance I would strike...still having the career but still having the family...we will see.<br /> Kate, my mom was the same way as yours....and both her kids moved 8 hours away to go to school (although my sister has recently moved back). I felt the same way after we left, and in fact one of my aunts said something to that affect to me that my mom must be heartbroken that both of us moved away the first chance we got. Eventually I said something to my mom about it and she sees our independence as proof she did an amazing job with us....she has 2 incredibly successful, independent and happy daughters so she must have done something right. I think about some of my mom's friends whose kids are still around and, not to be harsh, but they aren't successful, they certainly aren't independent, and they aren't as happy all the time....so maybe she is right. It's now been six years since the last of us left for college and I can say my mom has created a life that doesn't involve around her kids. It took time but she is certainly there now.</p> <p>That was probably the longest post I've ever written. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-147431 Sat, 24 Apr 2010 13:44:54 +0000 Louise 147431@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Aw katipea what a heart wrenching story i'm filling up reading it, and definately one to make us realsie the important things in life x </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-147418 Sat, 24 Apr 2010 12:30:28 +0000 Katiepea 147418@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I think that I can say with confidence that as a young girl in the 70's, I really was in the first generation of being a "child with a (full-time) working mother" who was striving to break through the professional glass ceiling. </p> <p>Yes, my mum was the first generation of women to try to "have it all" - a professional career (fulltime), a husband and three kids. </p> <p>Mum was a very career driven woman and worked throughout my entire childhood. She was always driven to achieve, achieve, achieve and "beat" the men at their own game. She was smart, sassy and very driven. I was very proud of how beautiful and charismatic she was - how she was not afraid to go into territory that was at the time, quite foreign for women, let alone being a mother of three!</p> <p>This sounds great doesn't it?! She had it all, didn't she - children, a husband AND recognition in a "professional field".</p> <p>I guess I always grew up thinking and she always assumed that "there would be time" when I was older to develop and enjoy the mother/daughter relationship. I grew up, gained my own qualifications, married and embarked upon my own career.</p> <p>Mum was diagnosed with stage III cancer two weeks before I discovered I was pregnant with my first child. She had just turned 53. She died when my youngest was five weeks old. She didn't live to see 60. Being driven, she fought and she fought to see her grand babies born, but sometimes life just isn't fair. </p> <p>You may wonder why am I telling the world essentially some very personal information?</p> <p>It is because I have learnt the very, very hard way from first hand experience as a little child of a career driven mother that yes, career success is all very well and good. I absolutely agree that achieving career goals is a wonderful achievement! Indeed, I am very proud of all that my mum achieved with her career goals in a predominantly male dominated field. </p> <p>However, this experience taught me, very cruelly, that if you decide to have children, you can't go banking on the fact that they (or YOU!) will be there later, when you are older and "ready to retire" to have the lovely, nurturing relationship where you have "time" to spend together.</p> <p>As mum learnt the hard way, and unfortunately I have experienced first hand as the daughter of a mother who "broke the glass ceiling", sometimes career success can come at a price. She felt great guilt and she regretted many of the decisions she made to put career over family. She realised that she had missed out on a whole range of precious "mum/daughter experiences" for the sake of impressing "someone important" or getting the next promotion, award or pay-rise. </p> <p>It wasn't worth it when it came down to it. Sad, huh?</p> <p>Understandably, this experience changed me and my perspective of motherhood vs career.</p> <p>Yes, I'd really like to achieve goals career wise and make an impact on the world for that matter. However, when I am on my death bed I can tell you that I sure as hell will not care whether I impressed a prime-minister or an influential reporter or anyone in power with my "brains or achievements" as much as I will care whether my family - my children and my husband loved me and know that I really adored them as their caring mother and wife. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-147416 Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:48:37 +0000 RoseandJoan 147416@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Maya, my Dad's main regret was the hours overtime he had to work to support the family at the expense of time with the kids. I imagine your Dad would probably say the same. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-147347 Sat, 24 Apr 2010 03:22:00 +0000 Maya 147347@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Dawn, I haven't forgotten the plans for a worldwide YLF convention...:) </p> <p>As a kid, I had a very typical "ideal" upbringing. My mom stayed home with me until I was 13, and my dad was at work every day until 6. The result of this is that my mom's career was stifled. It makes me sad to see her at this age, struggling to make ends meet, bored with her job, and frustrated at her inability to realize her dreams. It makes me feel guilty. I know it shouldn't. I know it was her choice and she doesn't regret it...but at the same time, after years of her life revolving around us, she has no idea what to do with herself, much like Kate's situation. </p> <p>OTOH, I wish I had more time with my dad as a kid. We used to fight a lot when I was a teen because I often felt like he didn't care or was too preoccupied with other things to spare any time for me. He was frequently on business trips and therefore there would be large spans of time when he wasn't home at all or was too jetlagged/tired to be bothered with me.</p> <p>All in all, based on my experience, I think theses shifting dynamics are for the better. In an ideal world, it wouldn't happen as a result of a recession, but there has to be SOME upside to this right? </p> <p>Men and women are more alike than different, and seem to crave the same things in life. The closer we come to achieving a balance, the happier I think we will all be. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-147330 Sat, 24 Apr 2010 02:41:31 +0000 Alecia 147330@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>This is a timely post, Julie. Thank you!</p> <p>I have been contemplating this quite a bit as we expect our first baby. And I think my hubby has, too. We are smack in the middle of the evolution of the social norms of women's/men's roles and it is a challenge for both of us at times. (I.e., I have the more stable job, he's going to be doing the bulk of the childcare, etc.) But your reminder is very well taken. I have gotten infinitely better at giving myself a break. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-147265 Fri, 23 Apr 2010 22:53:00 +0000 Dawn 147265@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Maya just summarised my opinions on this issue. I think too many women (mums as well as every other woman) have way too much pressure to be perfect placed on them by themselves, other people and the media to be perfect all the time. Maya, you are eloquent and intelligent as always, and I would love to meet you sometime! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-147228 Fri, 23 Apr 2010 21:03:55 +0000 Angie 147228@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I have no wisdom to add, but I do want to say that Julie rocks so count me in as another who wants to be her good mate. Big hug! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-147167 Fri, 23 Apr 2010 19:11:26 +0000 RoseandJoan 147167@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I have to admit I find the term maternal somewhat limiting, I think we all have a nurturing insinct but may fulfill that instinct in many ways. Maya, you fulfil your need to nurture through looking after your darling kitty :0)</p> <p>I am also very lucky, Ben does a great deal around the home, looks after the girls when his shifts allows, by definition he does both a share of the productive and reproductive chores. It works for us and I consider myself to be lucky. I guess we have to try and base all of our decisions on what is best for our families. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-147128 Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:21:43 +0000 Kate 147128@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Maya, I completely agree with you that most of this is a result of social constructs and not the way things "naturally" are. However I want to add that I think this social construct is slowly falling apart for some men as well. While women don't have an equal place in the workforce (our jobs are lower status, involve more emotionally draining work, and pay less), there are an increasing number of families where the wife makes more than the husband, and this can create problems for him (and the marriage). As women find that they can not only raise children but support themselves and their children at the same time, the father's place in the family structure can be challenged. Both the husband and wife may question what he's adding to the family, and if he's not pulling his weight in productive or reproductive labor this can create huge strains. While many couples survive this, it often involve rejecting social norms of a man's role and a woman's role in the house.</p> <p>I completely agree that our society is set up in a way where women are criticized pretty much no matter what they do, and men generally come out on top. But with the financial crisis there are now more women employed than men, and this can create problems for husbands and fathers. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-147113 Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:43:10 +0000 agrace 147113@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Great thought provoking post. This is a good reminder. I could go on and on about this topic. I may be back later and do just that As usual, I'm enjoying reading all of your thoughts. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-147110 Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:34:15 +0000 Maya 147110@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I'll preface this by saying I currently do not, never did have, and never will have any maternal instinct whatsoever. Nada. The thought of ever even giving birth let alone raising kids is, frankly, one of my worst nightmares. The only time I become a mother is around my sweet kitty cat. I'm stating this on no uncertain terms up front so there is some background information here.</p> <p>I have to disagree as well that this is all nature rather than nurture. Our society and culture is structured in a way that puts enormous pressure on women and mothers in general. Men have pressure too, though it is of a different kind and perhaps less so. Women get chastised for working, for staying home, for having kids, for not having kids, for taking time off of work, for not taking time off of work. They get crucified for using formula over breastmilk. They get judged when they are sexually repressed, and judged when they are sexually promiscuous.</p> <p>Many women probably wouldn't feel so guilty if we didn't have all those losers and pundits on television telling them precisely why and how they are all failures. Do you see this happening with men? Not really. That is the reason they don't have the same complex that women do. Men and women simply do not have the same kind of history regarding work/life balance.</p> <p>This is a losing battle because there IS no ideal situation. Just do what you can and enjoy your life. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-147104 Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:08:40 +0000 marianne 147104@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thanks for starting this thread, Julie. I constantly feel guilty for not doing more - spending more time with kids, doing more housework, doing more at my job. It's a huge source of stress for me. It's very hard for me to give myself credit for doing things, so thanks for reminding me about that.<br /> Overall I agree with Rute. I don't think it's the old-fashioned mindset. For example, my husband does a lot of housework, but I always feel like I have to do more of my share. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-147055 Fri, 23 Apr 2010 13:28:48 +0000 Louise 147055@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Remember girls your house being too clean can be bad for your kids health too x </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-147054 Fri, 23 Apr 2010 13:26:07 +0000 Patience 147054@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Julie, let's be best friends. I was just asking myself yesterday morning why I feel guilty so often these days when I'm not the kind of person who usually does (like Khris). I think it comes down to what we tell ourselves. I feel guilty because unconsciously or consciously I'm telling myself that I'm not doing the most for my children. I just try to remind myself that the truth is that I am an awesome mother. I think that it is just so deeply ingrained in our culture that things should look a certain way-- no matter what that way is-- that when they don't we tell ourselves the wrong things.</p> <p>As for cleaning-- it actually doesn't bother me for other people that much. When things are a mess, it bothers *me*. I've realized that the danger is when we are able to score a home run with cleaning or mothering or "getting it all done." The satisfaction and thrill (yes you know it's a thrill) of doing it all makes it that much more rough when we can't get it all done. Of course, this is not going to make me stop shooting for the stars so to speak. For me the key is to keep the self talk positive and remember that it's okay when everything crashes and burns.</p> <p>I've used all my computer time today on this post. hee hee. But I couldn't stay away. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-147019 Fri, 23 Apr 2010 08:51:29 +0000 Tansie 147019@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>You've really hit a nerve here Julie!! I have a very traditional family set up - husband does the productive work and I do the reproductive work. (Thanks for the terminology Kate) This is for no particular reason except that it has worked out that way and it seems to work for us. Our kids are little, we have no family nearby, we move often and my husband works long hours and is regularly away. I give the stability to my childrens' world. But I feel so much guilt about not (currently) earning any money. One of the reasons I love YLF is because I experience fashion vicariously through you! I spend money on my kids, my husband, our flat with no problems whatsoever, but feel awful if I spend a few euros on a pair of red shoes (which I love by the way!!) for myself. This is completely self-generated - my husband has never questioned me about what I spend. So yes, it seems many women feel they ought to do everything. Chewyspaghetti, I honestly admire you! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-147002 Fri, 23 Apr 2010 07:13:57 +0000 Katiepea 147002@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>This is a really fascinating post. Kate's post rings so true to me and I can really appreciate her mum's position and sense of uncertainty. I also love Theresa's quote - so very true and so me.</p> <p> Sometimes I have intense feelings of mother guilt and other times, like right now, I feel quite a strong sense of entitlement that I have as many rights as anybody else in this family to devote time and energy to myself and to leave the dirty dishes for my husband to do EVEN if I have been home all day (on here, surfing the net &lt;giggle&gt;).</p> <p>Although I know I'm younger than your mum Kate, I am friends with quite a lot of older women (50's - 60's) and I have come to the conclusion that there is a huge proportion of women out there who are still all trying to work out "what we want to do when we grow up". I still haven't and I have finally come to the conclusion that that is absolutely fine!</p> <p>In fact, having a slightly off-centre view of the world, I have decided to plan to work that side of my life out when I'm eighty. Until then, I'm just planning on having fun and trying many different things - maybe something will click, maybe not - but at least it is interesting! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-146991 Fri, 23 Apr 2010 06:15:43 +0000 RoseandJoan 146991@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Wow, the responses to this thread have been so touching, Kate I really hope your Mum is able to rebuild a life around her wants. That's a great quote Theresa and very Truthful.</p> <p>I guess the guilt does come hand in hand with ensuring we are productive but I have accepted that I do have more tasks than hours in the day. I have to prioritise, some tasks are non negotiable whereas others can wait. I'm trying to learn to leave guilt at the door. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-146984 Fri, 23 Apr 2010 04:23:12 +0000 Lena 146984@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Nod, nod. Ladies, I agree. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-146967 Fri, 23 Apr 2010 03:26:13 +0000 Michelle 146967@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Jules, you rule. Full stop.<br /> And these words are wise even for those of us without children... I know I sometimes expect myself to keep my apartment/prepare meals/organize my life with Martha Stewart-like zeal, but sometimes it just won't h appen. Thank you for reminding us that it's ok! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/ot-motg-guilt#post-146964 Fri, 23 Apr 2010 03:09:50 +0000 Kate 146964@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I'm not a mom, but I am a sociology grad student, and in academia this nurturing phenomenon is well documented along with the guilt and feelings of inadequacy that have been brought up in this thread. In a traditional family setting, the man does the productive labor (aka makes the money) while the woman does the reproductive labor: the nurturing, cooking, cleaning, and all the daily tasks that keep the family going. As more women enter the workforce, they often end up doing productive labor AND most of the reproductive labor, which means they're working double time. Not to mention reproductive labor entails emotional labor, which is usually more draining than the typical productive job.</p> <p>It's also really interesting to me how there's so much guilt for both working moms and stay at home moms, regardless of if their role is a choice or necessity. Working moms can feel inadequate for not spending as much time with their kids and families, and falling behind in their reproductive labor responsibilities. Stay at home moms can feel guilt for their lack of productive labor, and also feel particularly guilty if they neglect some of their reproductive labor tasks. It can become this awful catch 22 where women can't "win" at motherhood, and their is no easy answer. I would love to hear what any of you think about this sociological perspective!</p> <p>My own mom quit her job after I was born and has devoted her life to raising her three kids. Now that my sister (the youngest) is a junior in high school, my mom is really struggling to figure out how to create a life around herself again after 23 years of building a life around her kids. I am SO thankful for all of the opportunities my mom gave us, but it's also painful for me to see how little of her life now is based on herself. Most of her community, close friends, activities, and interests are based around her children, and now that two of us are living across the country from her we've taken away a huge part of her life.</p> <p>I realize this post sounds like a bit like a downer, but I truly mean for it to be somewhat inspirational. Feelings of guilt are a hard to escape for most moms, and being a part of YLF is a small step towards maintaining or creating a life that isn't just centered around children. </p>