https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Sat, 18 Apr 2026 16:17:25 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1769935 Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:08:27 +0000 Gaylene 1769935@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Actually, Catty, I read a similar study from UVIC which put the number at a whopping 1000 uses for the ceramic reusable mug.<br /> <a href="http://www.design4x.com/misc/bus183/handouts/Hocking.SpringerVerlag.Energy%20Use%20of%205%20Different%20Cups.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.design4x.com/misc/b.....20Cups.pdf</a></p> <p>But, as Angie would say, the devil is in the details. Even the author admits his analysis depends on certain conditions--a major one being his calculations on the energy used to wash and sanitize a ceramic cup over its lifetime. His calculations, though, aren't based on my throwing my single mug into my already loaded dishwasher at the end of day where its energy use is minor since I'm already doing a full load of dishes. The author's analysis also assumes the proper disposal and recycling of disposal cups. His conclusions admit that reusing instead of disposing can still be a valid choice. </p> <p>Like our clothing choices, figuring out what's best isn't easy. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1769727 Tue, 17 Jan 2017 21:04:08 +0000 LaPed 1769727@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Those are really good points, catty. I've heard the plastic bag vs canvas tote statistic before. I guess, to me, if I already have tote bags for other reasons (beach, yoga, gym, whatever), I should go ahead and repurpose those for groceries. I typically do one big grocery trip per month at a co-op about 30 minutes from my house. I don't have enough reusable tote bags to hold all the groceries when I do a big shop like that (we still buy milk and veggies weekly, but everything else we buy in bulk), so I always end up with plastic bags. It doesn't bother me, because I use them for trash bags in the car and in the bathroom, so I think their carbon footprint is smaller than adding more. Adding something new is almost never the most sustainable option. </p> <p>But "green" and "sustainable" have become marketing tools -- so it's up to consumers to figure out when green is actually green. And that's a lot of work, doing that research. I don't begrudge people who make mistakes and those who don't have the time/energy in the first place. Personally, I think lawmakers -- and the public -- need to keep up the pressure on manufacturers to devise zero-waste and carbon-neutral manufacturing processes. Consumer politics/boycotts alone aren't enough -- they need to be done in tandem with lobbying, legislation, etc. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1769711 Tue, 17 Jan 2017 20:23:49 +0000 Anonymous 1769711@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>This was a very interesting post. I agree, the issue is complicated and it's hard for a consumer interested in ethical consumption to get all the facts--so I like what she is doing to increase transparency on her end.</p> <p>For that matter, it's hard for companies themselves to monitor their supply chains when they scale up, much less the end consumer.</p> <p>One thing I think about when this topic comes up is how the art of mending clothes has been lost. Most of us don't darn our socks or patch our jeans. It's kind of a vicious cycle where clothing has become artificially cheap enough that it's more cost effective to replace rather than repair. But that creates the mentality that clothing is disposable and that it isn't worth buying a $200 blouse because as soon as it gets a stain or pull, it needs to go in the trash.</p> <p>Her talk about natural fibers also reminds me of something I read about reusable vs. disposable coffee cups. I forget the exact figure, but you apparently need to use a ceramic coffee mug 150 or so times before it beats out disposable cups. Or, you need to reuse a cotton grocery tote <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/09/to-tote-or-note-to-tote/498557/">327 times</a> before it is environmentally friendlier than using disposable plastic bags. This kind of ties into the transparency issue because it's all so counterintuitive: the thing that feels wasteful may be the right choice; the path that strikes us as certainly more eco-friendly can actually be much more harmful.</p> <p>So back to clothes, it may be that synthetics are hard on the environment but last longer to the point that they end up friendlier overall. I bought 7 pair of nylon underwear from Soma in 2013 and they still look new. Cotton would have sagged in half the time--and cotton is really hard on the environment.</p> <p>I try to buy secondhand as much as possible to get around a lot of these issues, but I also know my individual choices aren't going to make a dent in this problem--it has to happen through regulation. </p> <p> </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1768883 Sun, 15 Jan 2017 00:44:54 +0000 Sal 1768883@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I also thought she made some excellent points, jeans certainly were $150 here in the 1990s for Levis 501s - I had one pair. &nbsp;And my boat shoes that I adored cost me $200 in 1992, and ankle boots $280. &nbsp;Athletic shoes have been over $200 except on sale since 1990.... &nbsp;</p> <p>I don't see the very cheap prices here that &nbsp;are available overseas but only today our main newspaper was comparing online prices with NZ retailers - of course online international retailers were substantially cheaper. &nbsp;As a result the shopping options near me are declining, in some areas rather rapidly. &nbsp;This is the case in many parts of the world.</p> <p>I am not planning to sew my own clothes, and I do not plan to thrift all my clothes...But I can control what comes in, and choose wisely to avoid waste, and choose wisely to support local retailers and manufacturers, and ethical producers internationally.</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1768871 Sat, 14 Jan 2017 23:22:26 +0000 Deborah 1768871@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thanks so much for linking to this. I'm a fan of the brand and this young designer. Having recently taken a more ethical stance on my own fashion purchasing, I found this very interesting. I feel it all comes down to the priorities of the individual consumer. My mindset has changed dramatically in the past 5 years, and I would rather have less but better. I know it sounds cliched but I do mean it and my wardrobe has slowly come to reflect that. I also thought her profit margins were very modest. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1768865 Sat, 14 Jan 2017 22:16:19 +0000 Janet 1768865@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Interesting article, and I do appreciate the breakdown of cost and pricing. And I certainly appreciate the craftsmanship and quality that goes into these not-so-mass-produced items. After all, I'm an artist too - I want people to support the real thing instead of buying cheap mass-produced prints on crappy paper. But I also appreciate that people with less expendable income want to hang things on their walls too. And so it goes.</p> <p>Maybe I was shopping in the wrong places, but I sure wasn't dropping $100 on jeans in the 90s. I do have some issues with that thread in her essay. But the larger point is one worth thinking about. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1768857 Sat, 14 Jan 2017 21:39:39 +0000 Lyn D. 1768857@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Gaylene is spot on as always!<br /> Loved the article and responses there and here.<br /> I may not want to wear certain things for many years, but hopefully the quality is good enough that it can be sold or past on for someone else to enjoy. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1768841 Sat, 14 Jan 2017 20:25:05 +0000 Gaylene 1768841@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Chiming back in again because, while I agree the issue of ethical consumerism is multifaceted and complicated and returning to a time where everything was self-made or bought locally just isn't practical for most people, it still seems to me understanding the huge role price plays in ethical consumption often gets lost in these discussions. </p> <p>Simply put, there is no way to ethically retail a $5 T-shirt, and every time I purchase a $5 T-shirt, I am responsible for making a decision which feeds into series of dubious actions and consequences. Walking away from a $5 T-shirt, though, doesn't mean I stop buying T-shirts or start sewing my own T-shirts.</p> <p>On a personal level, what it does require is I start thinking about buying my T-shirts from a company which prices its products in a way which considers my budgetary needs as well as the needs of those who make and market my T-shirt. It also means accepting the reality I will have fewer T-shirts in my closet--one $30 T-shirt instead of half a dozen $5 T-shirts. Spending $30 on a single T-shirt takes a much bigger bite out of my fixed-income budget so I'm going to need to be much pickier about its purchase, care, and culling. </p> <p>Getting consumers to accept the actual cost of producing a garment in an ethical way, though, is going to be an uphill battle. I wish Liz Pape success, but I think her points will fall on deaf ears. A $200 shirt is a hard sell to consumers who prefer the "variety" of having ten $20 shirts--even if six of those shirts end up in the re-cycle bag after six months. As someone on the forum once remarked "I don't WANT to wear the same shirt for five years!" </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1768782 Sat, 14 Jan 2017 15:16:54 +0000 Suz 1768782@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>It is a really interesting article -- thank you, <b>LaPed</b>. I agree with <b>Rachy </b>and you and others that it's a very complicated situation and individuals "opting" out aren't the answer. (Though like <b>Ummlila</b>, I happily support two local farmers and several local small grocers, etc. and consider it one small step.)&nbsp;</p> <p>When it comes to clothing, there are different types of item in my closet:&nbsp;</p> <p>The items that (whatever their provenance) I tend to wear until they are worn out past further repair -- for me, those are:&nbsp;</p> <p>(Some) jeans. (My favourites.)&nbsp;<br />(Some) footwear.&nbsp;<br />(Some) knits.&nbsp;<br />Underwear.&nbsp;<br />PJs<br />Workout gear.&nbsp;<br />(Some) tops -- usually summer tops, which get a lot more frequent laundering.&nbsp;</p> <p>Then there are items that I wear quite a lot, but not enough to wear out before I tire of them. These I give to friends, family, or charity.&nbsp;</p> <p>Up until now I've been doing a count of items bought each year and items donated, or otherwise edited out. This year, I'm going to add the reasons -- i.e. was it truly worn out or was it just boring me? And within the worn out category -- did it wear out quickly, or did it last?&nbsp; </p> <p>The trouble is, I'm not sure what I'll do with that info. I am already aware that some of the longest lasting items in my closet come from the same companies that sold me some of the self-destructing items.&nbsp;</p> <p>Also, while I can aim to buy more locally designed stuff -- frankly, how do I know I won't get tired of it just as fast as anything else, or faster?&nbsp;</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1768763 Sat, 14 Jan 2017 13:12:08 +0000 Janet 1768763@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I haven't read the article yet, but the discussion alone is interesting. So many good points, and as Rachy says, fashion is just the tip of the iceberg. </p> <p>Barbara Diane's comments remind me of a conversation I had with my interior designer boss almost a decade ago. We were talking about how, by and large, new homes had maxed out in size,and the trend of the McMansion and huge house was dying. The children of parents who lived in these big houses with high ceilings and massive walk-ins were going to be choosing smaller, simpler, easier and less expensive to care for homes, when it was their time to buy a house.</p> <p>It all makes me wonder if a sea change is on the horizon. Times are increasingly uncertain. So many people are scaling back, being more thoughtful about consumption, and are realizing that more stuff means more time dealing with their stuff. </p> <p>All food for thought, and things that are in the back of my mind when I think of spending money on something else to put in a closet these days.</p> <p>Ok, now I'll go read the article! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1768761 Sat, 14 Jan 2017 12:58:34 +0000 LaPed 1768761@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>For me, the really illuminating aspect of this piece is her willingness to talk about the actual costs of materials and labor. We've been running into this while we shop for home furnishings, too. If you want to, you can furnish your home really cheaply with stuff that's made mostly out of fiberboard and polyurethane foam, and your home will *look* nice, but those materials degrade quickly, have a large carbon footprint, and possibly a negative impact on interior air quality. If you want furniture made out of traditional materials -- wood, wool, etc -- the same way we might look for clothing made of high quality natural fibers, the cost shoots up, and it's directly related to materials. If I wanted to build my own bed or sofa using wood, wool, hemp, latex, buckwheat hulls, whatever, it would be more expensive than buying from a green furniture company, because I'm not connected to the supply chain and I can't scale up. This was an eye-opener for me. I keep chickens and bake my own bread, and (especially if you factor in labor) there is NO WAY for me to produce my own food as cheaply as I can buy it at the grocery store. It's literally a labor of love. &nbsp;</p> <p>There are a lot of glib people out there who encourage opting out, who say, "Well, if you don't like the way the factories do it, then make your own ____." Clothes, toys, furniture, food, etc. I definitely fall into that trap, because I'm an idealist and a perfectionist, and sometimes I just get so fed up with the produce-buy-consume-discard cycle that I find myself looking for a way out. But "just do it yourself" -- that's a ridiculous proposition. On the whole (in the US at least) we're working more hours than ever and not seeing an increase in the pay we bring home. The vast majority of Americans aren't in a position to even ponder the idea of making their own clothes, or buying $200 shirts from Elizabeth Suzann; ethics aside, it's just not materially possible. And even if it was possible, it wouldn't be a solution. As Rachylou says, the ball of wax is so much bigger than that. So it's going to take community solutions, real organized actions that are bigger than individuals in their homes. The alternative has to be capable of the same scale and reach as the current system, or it won't work. So, one middle-class American making her own clothes as a hobby -- not too scary for the garment industry or for global capitalism. A group of factory workers, in say Cambodia, deciding to make clothes for their families and neighbors, and refusing to export? That might be more of a problem.&nbsp;</p> <p>I see the conversation about transparency, sustainability, and conscious consumption to be a really good starting-off point for talking about ways to live better, globally, in a more macro sense. Like, "What if we ALL had less stuff and got to work fewer hours? What if we were ALL able to jump off the hamster wheel?" Because right now, just being able to talk about opting out or dabbling in doing it differently is a privilege.&nbsp; </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1768752 Sat, 14 Jan 2017 11:41:31 +0000 Ledonna N. 1768752@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Boy was this a long read. I enjoyed reading it and the dialogue. I find it interesting as far as a comsumer reading about the thoughts of a supplyer. </p> <p>I come from a middle class background. My mother both made my clothing and we shopped thrift. </p> <p>To this day I still shop thrift. About 14 years ago I made a conscious decision to shop with local merchants and designers. </p> <p>I did this for many of ther reasons stated in the article.</p> <p>I dont want to be a consumer but, i want to be in style and fashionable. I love recycling clothing. Times are a changing. I now see high-end vehicles in the parking lots of thrifts and prices have gone up and up. There is always a vargin to be had. </p> <p>Im now a quality instead of quanity type of person. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1768733 Sat, 14 Jan 2017 09:11:21 +0000 rachylou 1768733@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>My mum bought me a chicken key chain because it will be the year of the rooster. What, may I ask, am I to do with a chicken keychain? But someone is feeding their family off this keychain. I think that's a whole big ball of wax. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1768699 Sat, 14 Jan 2017 03:50:38 +0000 Barbara Diane 1768699@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>If we judge the quantity of what we purchase by the size of closets of homes from various decades (at least in the U.S.), we can see the change in the idea of how many items of clothing we need.</p> <p>I also wonder if in times past people's size was more stable, also leading to less items of clothing.</p> <p>I think the acquisition and storage of all kinds of items has also increased. When I was a kid everyone parked in their garage; now, in the same neighborhood, cars are often parked in the driveway or on the street.&nbsp;</p> <p> </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1768681 Sat, 14 Jan 2017 01:35:18 +0000 Gaylene 1768681@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>It's hard to argue with those who profess their aim is to provide people with things they need at a price they can afford. Or the argument that the the availability of inexpensive clothing is a god-send for many struggling families. But those arguments would be a lot stronger if they weren't made in an atmosphere where lower prices are regularly used to promote and justify overconsumption at ALL income levels. As long as consumers think it is possible to make and sell clothing at ridiculously low prices, there isn't much chance companies will see ethics as much more than a PR exercise. </p> <p>I think the author of the article hits the target when she says cheap clothing makes overconsumption possible for the majority of the population. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1768649 Fri, 13 Jan 2017 23:58:33 +0000 UmmLila (Lisa) 1768649@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I'm agreeing with Rachy here on the complexity of the big picture. Because of the global economy, we are almost always distanced from the people who produce the things we buy. Farmers' markets and local food coops are a happy exception. I'm happy to get my milk from the Manning Hill Farm that I've driven by hundreds of times, even if it costs a bit more. I don't know anyone who is making clothing that I like in New Hampshire. I tend to avoid Walmart as full of tacky folk who might run me over with their full shopping carts of stuff made in China, yet I've come to know several high level people at that company who feel very strongly about their mission of providing people with things they need and can afford and buy at a store not far from their home. And I also want to support local boutiques (even if they sell cheap products made by underpaid workers abroad) that have to keep lowering their prices to keep up with the cheapie stuff at Walmart and Target. A conundrum to be sure. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1768642 Fri, 13 Jan 2017 23:33:59 +0000 gradfashionista 1768642@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>The pricing of the jeans made me think of prices in Canada. I was really surprised when I first came to the US and saw how cheaper (with a terrible exchange rate) Gap jeans were.&nbsp; </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1768616 Fri, 13 Jan 2017 22:30:59 +0000 cindysmith 1768616@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Great reminder of my 'resolution' to buy thoughtfully and buy better. To stop participating in the horrible treatment of overseas garment workers. To avoid synthetic fabrics (they're so freaking unbearable here in the south anyway). To buy pieces I know I'll love for years.</p> <p>Thank you for sharing this! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1768582 Fri, 13 Jan 2017 20:02:33 +0000 rachylou 1768582@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Interesting article. I wonder how old the author is. Because I don't think people went to the mall and dropped $100 for jeans as par for the course in the 90s. And I don't know the quality was as schlocky as it is now. That said, it is completely true we used to spend more as a percentage of our labor on clothes than we do now. And the work conditions were just as bad, globally. I will say that I think it is a mistake to focus on clothing. Or money. Or any one aspect at a time. We have a systemic problem. The whole of the economic means of production and consumption and distribution not only of goods but of buying power. The ideal is a life of luxury but no one wants to pay anyone anything for just breathing. We don't need most people to do anything. And the people we do need, who can do, we don't want to pay them anything either because they're making necessities. Everyone should have a coat and a loaf of bread. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1768579 Fri, 13 Jan 2017 20:00:17 +0000 Isabel 1768579@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Great article, LP. &nbsp;This is something that I struggle with a lot. I so often feel that there is no alternative to this dilemma.&nbsp;</p> <p>Gaylene, YES ! &nbsp;It isn't just that we wouldn't toss it away so non chalantly but that we would be BETTER at buying, I think. &nbsp;I remember reading something about 20 years ago in Simple Isn't Easy that I often think of...to paraphrase : decades ago, before retail, when women had to have their clothes made or they made their own clothes, they would think long and hard before cutting into that bolt of fabric.&nbsp;</p> <p>I think that we take a lot for granted. I , ashamedly, have found myself saying to my daughter, " You can always buy another one...". &nbsp;That is a terrible lesson to teach her because it encourages bad choices that she doesn't have to live with.</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1768575 Fri, 13 Jan 2017 19:49:34 +0000 Gaylene 1768575@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thanks so much for sharing this article. </p> <p>It reinforces my thinking that equating thriftiness with bargain hunting and "scoring" the lowest price from a retailer has undermined the true meaning of the concept. Closet culls, "holding" areas, and trundling off bags to thrift and consignment shops shouldn't make me feel good. I suspect I'd do a lot less tossing away if I had paid $275 for that blouse and $350 for that pair of pants I was so willing to remove from my closet. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-transparency-ethics-pricing-etc#post-1768553 Fri, 13 Jan 2017 18:32:02 +0000 LaPed 1768553@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Liz Pape, founder of Elizabeth Suzann, has a very thought-provoking blog post up:</p> <p><a rel="nofollow" href="https://elizabethsuzann.com/blogs/stories/money-talk">https://elizabethsuzann.com/bl.....money-talk</a></p> <p>I'll try to come back and comment more later, but mostly I just appreciated being able to read a very grounded discussion of ethical consumption from a producer's perspective.&nbsp; </p>