https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Wed, 29 Apr 2026 17:54:14 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy/page/2#post-327885 Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:52:29 +0000 Anonymous 327885@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Even at 118 lbs and a size 7 I was a busty and hippy girl. CURVY. HOURGLASSY. Always thought I was fat, so I became anorexic for 6 years. Guess what? I was still CURVY. I hated it and couldn't escape my shape, it wasn't the shape I saw in all the magazines! Guys liked me, girls called me fat. Go figure. Face it, women have problems with other women (beginning in Jr. high) and it's sad. I'm no longer that 118 lb girl, but I'm still CURVY, even with extra LB's. Just my 2 cents. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy/page/2#post-323158 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:27:55 +0000 Jonesy 323158@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I had to jump back in with a few more points :). First off, Mr. Schuman is a *street* photographer, not strictly a fashion photographer. So it's not accurate to say that all he's used to seeing are super-skinny women. Aren't there lots of different body types walking around in NYC and the other cities he finds himself in? Second, I am appalled at his double standard. He never comments on the body types of the men he photographs, that I can recall. He seems to accept men in all of their rich diversity, even celebrates that diversity. With women, however, it's a very different story. Somehow women's bodies are for him to weigh in on, and some are "better" or more aesthetically pleasing than others. His comments are essentially about him offering a tutorial on how "unfortunately sturdy" women can best dress to minimize their lack of aesthetic perfection. Third, it's not accurate to say that all fashion bloggers are skinny, so the woman in question naturally stands out. Admittedly I am not familiar with every single fashion blogger, but I have certainly seen some diversity in terms of body size.</p> <p>He's just a sexist, patronizing man, bottom line, IMO. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy/page/2#post-323103 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:21:58 +0000 RandomThoughts (Andrea) 323103@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>She did respond saying that his comments didn't bother her at all. She did also state that her English is not very good so may not understand some of the nuances.</p> <p>For me what bothered me most was, as others pointed out, the "but". No comment needed to have been made about her size - she's gorgeous. Does she have curves? You bet! For me it was the tone that irked. And the use of the word "sturdy", which while not insulting in and of itself I found silly relative to how most women look.</p> <p>I also commented that other folks were calling her "normal" which I feel is unfair to naturally very thin women, as if they were abnormal. They're normal, just not average. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy/page/2#post-323089 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:53:16 +0000 RoseandJoan 323089@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I think I need another cup of caffeine before I tackle this post. I used to have 'skinny curves' and now I'm a slightly larger rectangle. It would take quite a lot for a comment about my size to annoy me because I accept who and what I am including the flaws. </p> <p>I personally did not feel offended by Sarts use of words but I understand there is so much underlying emotion with regards to women and their body shapes it is best to stay clear of ambiguous words. The lady in Milan is both stylish and beautiful. I would love to read what she thinks of the storm surrounding the blog post. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy/page/2#post-323083 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:31:38 +0000 sinead 323083@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I truly don't see anything offensive in his post.</p> <p>To me, he was pointing out, very specifically, that she was "bigger, curvier" than most of the other fashion bloggers. That's all. Just a simple true statement. </p> <p>How great that he featured someone other than the usual model-thin fashionista. How unfortunate he's being called out for it. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy/page/2#post-323075 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:13:30 +0000 Patty 323075@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Why is this chick such an anomoly?? I've seen tall women with curvier legs without the extreme and calf sculpting heels. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy/page/2#post-322978 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 15:27:32 +0000 Elly 322978@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Ok-- I'll chime in. I a 5'8"--- taller than the average American woman by 4-5 inches, but not tall enough to be truly "tall" in my mind because in today's world there are so many women that are between 5'10" and 6'1". Yet, I have to wear tall sizes in jeans and often in tops as well. In the community I grew up in I was one of the tallest women and the height of many of the young men. Similarly, I work in what might be defined as ethnic enclave and I'm taller than most of the women by 4-8 inches and am within a few inches in height from most the men. I have received "size-related" hostility from women that are 5'10" because I classified myself as tall. </p> <p>I am also curvy-- I have a 14" difference between my hips and waist and wear a large bra size. I have a completely normal bmi and am not chubby. I have broad shoulders and I am STURDY. In fact-- I look a lot like the lady in the Sart's photos (of course, I am not a giant-- but if we shrunk her we would look alike). I think that it is great that he chose to celebrate a perfectly healthy woman that is a different body type and size that we normally see in the industry-- which now, in my opinion also includes bloggers that are more than casual hobbyists. It is really common to see women who are 5'10-6'0" but very petite in their features or very very thin. This woman is proportional for her height! That is all there is to it. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy/page/2#post-322963 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:42:38 +0000 Isabel 322963@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Una's ( and Angie's ) observations are right on. I used to be 5'6" ( I've shrunk a little ) and was a size 2 for most of my life. Yet when I visited family in the Azores, they thought I was Amazon woman because most people in the village were very short. Then I would come back to Boston and feel fine.</p> <p>I find that the way the woman has her trench cinched makes her look curvy. Just...curvy. I didn't notice her weight or her height or her breasts...</p> <p>After Angie blogged about femininity I did a little "research" on it and it is amazing how different cultures define it so radically different. Again, back to my little village in the Azores : because I was so skinny, I was not considered feminine at all. People were always trying to feed me. Interestingly, there was a time in China, when it was considered "feminine" to have small, deformed feet. Wow ! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy/page/2#post-322955 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:27:16 +0000 lynne 322955@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>As others have said, it's the definition of the word "curvy" that is at issue. In general society and media (not here) the word has become a euphemism for fat. A phrase that marketers use that bothers me is "real women" when they are talking about plus<br /> sized women. It implies that a size 6 isn't a real woman. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy/page/2#post-322878 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 05:43:17 +0000 rosee 322878@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I agree with Alaskagirl and Maya... the "but" ("sturdy but beautiful") is very indicative of his thinking, and evidence of his patronizing attitude. I've seen lots of photos of stick-thin legs on the Sart's blog but he never comments on them. But as others have said upthread that it's not the "normal" of his environment, so at least he's expanding his worldview a little.</p> <p>I get called "curvy" a lot lately (usually by well-meaning people) and I find it annoying as all-heck. I'm not curvy right now -- I'm 60 pounds heavier than I used to be, definitely overweight -- and I think my body is more of a blob now than ever before. I am a pretty happy person but I'm not happy about the change in my body (health issues and medications), and I find calling me curvy now condescending. I considered myself curvy before when I had a waist and shape. I used to get called "petite" sometimes before -- but not US "petite" (I'm 5'6") since I have a small frame. That's when I learned the difference between North American and European definitions of the word. It's funny how positive words (in my opinion) such as "curvy", "petite" and "sturdy" can have such negative emotional connotations for some. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy/page/2#post-322872 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 05:24:46 +0000 Aziraphale 322872@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Wow, this is a hot topic. So many carefully thought out and well-phrased comments. I agree with a lot of them. I'll add mine: the same word can have more than one meaning. Why does "curvy" have to mean one thing or the other? You just need context to understand it. When you call a girl curvy, and she looks like that one does, you understand it to be a synonym for "shapely," as in Bridget Bardot. You can also use it as a euphemism for fat. What IS too bad is that the word "fat" has become such a pejorative word that it needs euphemisms at all. I've got an absolutely beautiful friend who could certainly also be described as fat (only you never would because it's such an insult!). Fat girls can be beautiful too, and not necessarily IN SPITE of being fat; sometimes it's part of their appeal. </p> <p>I'm not sure that I explained myself very well here. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if being fat was more acceptable, then the word "fat" would not be insult, and "curvy" would not need to have a double meaning. It's too bad people get so hung up on relative fatness and thinness. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy/page/2#post-322871 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 05:23:53 +0000 Aida 322871@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Petite being used for height and not frame needs to be more widespread if it's going to always be used as such for clothing proportions. This past weekend I told my mother-in-law to get a pair of petite jeans at LOFT and she insisted that she wasn't petite; she's 4'10" MAYBE but bigger, and even though she said she believed me that it had to do with height and not weight I've a feeling she's skeptical </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy/page/2#post-322779 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 02:04:34 +0000 Marley 322779@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I haven't read all of the comments here, but I can tell its a hot topic. I am not offended by the way he describes the woman. He is basically saying that in comparison to the other bloggers in the media that she is bigger and curvier - that's all. And I'm sure she is. I don't read anything more into it than that. And to be honest with you - when I look at those 2 pics, the first thing I notice is her shapely, curvy legs and how large the shoes are that she is wearing - and I think, "wow, she is a big girl!" And, I don't mean anything negative about that - it just seems like a fact to me. </p> <p>Also, to Una's point about his phrase "sturdy,but beautiful" legs - I can't speak to what he was trying to say there, but I do know that her legs look sturdy to me - strong and powerful - as well as beautiful. But some people may interpret sturdy as meaning stout or husky - so . . . . Ok, I just lost my train of thought! :-)</p> <p>As to the word "petite" - that gets me going more than the word "curvy." I am often referred to as being petite - and I'm not - I almost 5'5" - but I'm thin, so people sometimes describe me as petite. </p> <p>You know, its all relative to your own body image - I'm on the thin side, but think of myself as being "average." So, anyone who is bigger than me, I usually think of them as being "big." But, I don't think of that as a bad thing.</p> <p>Ok - I think I should shut-up. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy/page/2#post-322775 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 01:58:55 +0000 Maya 322775@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>What Angie says is true.</p> <p>When I was in France, I was always "très, très petite." I didn't get it at first. I am short but not THAT short. Then I understood that it was because I am so small boned in addition to being short.</p> <p>My mom, though shorter than me, would not be described this way, because she is much larger than me.</p> <p>In the US I am still petite, because of my height.</p> <p>I am not bothered by "sturdy" as the descriptor. It's the "but" that implies "despite" and therefore implies that this would ordinarily be a negative thing. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy/page/2#post-322773 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 01:53:41 +0000 Angie 322773@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Good point Una! In the US, petite means short. In Europe, petite means dainty and small framed. It gets very confusing. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy/page/2#post-322772 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 01:53:37 +0000 Steph 322772@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>AG, interesting question about petite, because I wonder this as well. A lot of people will call me petite, and I always want to correct them by saying "no, I'm just short." I'm not small-boned and I don't have delicate limbs, my frame is not tiny. But I am quite short. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy/page/2#post-322761 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 01:42:33 +0000 catgirl 322761@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Maya, I totally agree with you on your definition of curvy.</p> <p>I do think the description of her legs as "sturdy BUT beautiful" was ill-phrased. Why not just "sturdy, beautiful legs"? Or just "beautiful legs"? Or even just "legs"? After all, his photos should speak for themselves to an extent.</p> <p>On a related note, is the word "petite" similarly ambiguous? Does it refer merely to height or to all-over proportions? I think it has come to mean height and inseam rather than bones and flesh, but I could be wrong. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy/page/2#post-322737 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 00:58:45 +0000 Maya 322737@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>From personal experience, I am putting an end to the myth that size and curves are in any way related. I am curvier than most women I know of any size, and I am 110 pounds and a size 2. Not exactly "rubenesque."</p> <p>Nevertheless, part of me does cringe a little when described that way, because I can no longer tell if it's being used as a euphemism for overweight, or when it is used to mean what it really is: a generous difference between bust-waist-hips (or just bust and waist, or just waist and hips). A person can have curvy legs too--as this woman seems to have. I agree with Aida, and others, that larger women do not own the term and shouldn't get so rile up when smaller women use it. And vice versa. If you're curvy, you're curvy. It doesn't matter what size you are. I was curvy when I was a size 0. In fact, I was even curvier on the bottom than I am now, because I had a more sizable difference between my hips and waist.</p> <p>That said, I did not find what he wrote offensive. It doesn't seem like he was calling her fat at all. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy#post-322725 Tue, 29 Mar 2011 00:29:41 +0000 catgirl 322725@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I knew you all would run with this topic! I could discuss it forever, analytical deconstructionist that I am, but you've all said everything and more... </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy#post-322708 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:29:18 +0000 Angie 322708@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>High five, Aida.</p> <p>Beth, WELL SAID. I love your succinct and hit the nail on the head point of view :)</p> <p>Steph, you are riled up for sure, and I do understand your passion. </p> <p>Mary, thanks for chiming back in. That's interesting, I never read Sart's commentariat because I just look at the pretty pictures. </p> <p>Queen Mum Kim, amen. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy#post-322701 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:18:45 +0000 Aida 322701@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I usually stay away from these conversations, but I wanted to say that I hate the use of the word "curvy" being used SOLELY to indicate when someone is heavier than an "ideal" weight/size. I'm petite, small, and absolutely curvy. But if I were to say this, I get incredulous and even vile looks/comments along the lines of "you most certainly are NOT" as if I'M being disrespectful. WTF? Angie, I'm with you: I'm generally very literal about these things.</p> <p>Also Rae, I want to see someone with hyperbolic curves now! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy#post-322657 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:23:13 +0000 Queen Mum 322657@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I'm just happy that here at YLF we are all beautiful... curves, lines, or angles </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy#post-322654 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:21:33 +0000 Beth 322654@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I'm not sure he's really making his case here. In one sentence he says curvy is a shape and not a size and in the next paragraph he's referencing self-described curvy girls and mentioning size. </p> <p>Overall, I think Thimbelina's post resonates the most with me. We all have our own taxonomy that reflects our experiences and filters. It doesn't help that the word curvy has no commonly accepted definition (how could it?), so that when one person's usage conflicts with another's concept, drama ensues.</p> <p>I'm enjoying the debate as to what curvy means, but I'm not sure I understand those who find the term offensive. It is whatever you think it is in comparison to your personal "normal." And the definition of that is a whole 'nother conversation. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy#post-322639 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:06:31 +0000 MsMary 322639@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Angie, several people on the comments thread over there linked to that blog, and the name is the same. I often find Sart's photos bear only a passing resemblance to what his subjects look like elsewhere. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy#post-322622 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:39:57 +0000 Julia 322622@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I've got some sturdy legs and I don't find it derogatory. I can only buy wide-calf boots. From a fashion industry point of view, I'm definitely curvy and larger sized. I agree with Thimblelina that he has that fashion industry perspective. It's a different environment and I'm not really insulted by being called curvy (should I be?) in regards to it. I'm no size 0. I liked seeing someone in skin-tight pants who may not have been the typical fashion model size. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy#post-322612 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:06:38 +0000 Steph 322612@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>This is irritating to me. First off, I absolutely hate that the word "curvy" has become a euphemism for overweight/rotund/fat/etc. I am most definitely curvy, with a big chest, small waist, and round butt, but I also wear a size four and am not overweight. Not all overweight people are curvy--I am sure there are overweight rectangles out there. It's just not accurate for anyone--not for small women with curves, not for large women without curves. It doesn't do anyone any good. </p> <p>As for the Sartorialist himself, I didn't love that he first described her as a "bigger, curvier girl," but I guess he wasn't actually incorrect. He used those terms in comparison to other fashion bloggers he sees, and those women probably are smaller and straighter than she is. But, of course, the fact that curvy has become a euphemism for overweight immediately sets of warning bells for a lot of people. What annoys me far more is the explanation he added. Maybe I'm being unfair, but I believe that the underlying context in his explanation is that he believes this woman is fat, and that bothers me, because she really, really isn't. But maybe I'm being unfair to him and he's truly just wondering why he can't use the word curvy to describe a woman who has curves. It does kind of surprise me, however, that someone who is so steeped in the fashion world is so clueless that these are somewhat loaded terms.</p> <p>It also bothers me that by pointing out her size he has effectively "othered" someone who is much more the norm than the women he usually photographs. He is saying that the women he normally shows us are "normal" and this woman is outside of the norm, and I think that annoys people, because it's just not the case that she is outside the norm. It's like he's saying "look at me! I photographed a fat woman and I still think she's attractive! It's a good thing she wore those wide heels to downplay her hugeness and make her seem more like the attractive people I normally show you. See? I'm inclusive!" Irritating. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy#post-322610 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:06:12 +0000 Arya 322610@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Oh, what great comments! I don't follow Sart, just click over when someone here (Una, usually!) refers to a post. This one, though! What a great photo, and what a beautiful pair of shoes! </p> <p>In all seriousness, though, here is the comment I left on his blog:</p> <p>"This is such a great thing to talk about, although the likelihood that we will all agree on a description is slim...</p> <p>What I want to say, is that I am a "curvy" woman (i.e. muscular with an hourglass body shape) who is slim and petite (at only 5'2"). It used to be that curvy was used to describe women who had noticeable hip-to-waist ratios, breasts and/or were muscular and therefore curvaceous. Remember when Cindy Crawford was "the curvy model" because she had breasts and wasn't straight up and down?</p> <p>Now, it seems that the word curvy has been appropriated by overweight people. Granted, such a body may have many more curves than mine. I wonder, though, where that leaves me? If fat is the new curvy, and skinny is still skinny, how do we describe a slim-yet-shapely woman?</p> <p>I think that describing this woman as curvy is appropriate. Her legs are gorgeously curvaceous. As you pointed out, she is also "big", in that she is tall.</p> <p>Perhaps if we didn't feel compelled to use euphemisms to describe body compositions, we could call a spade a spade and be done with it."</p> <p>So, I agree with all of the points you all have already made. Why doesn't he usually comment on a subject's body shape/size? Why is curvy used to describe "plus-sized" women? When there is an actual need to describe a body's shape, what words are we to use?</p> <p>I don't like to get into the height/weight descriptors, either, because the numbers don't give an accurate picture. I was just talking with my husband about this today, and will use myself as an example: I am a long-time yoga practitioner and teacher, a dancer, an athlete. I lift weights, people! At 5'2", I weigh about 137 in the winter. In the summer, probably around 130-ish. That sounds heavy for a short gal, but I wear a size 4 or 6, which is not a big size. My weight doesn't mean anything, really, in the scheme of my health or even my relative size. I am small, but...densely packed. I am "curvy", and I like it! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy#post-322607 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:03:22 +0000 Angie 322607@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Bless you, Rae. I love your comment.</p> <p>Janet, you're right. Size 0's can totally be curvy. And descriptive commentary about a person's size is best left out of the conversation. </p> <p>Mary, is that really the same gal? </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy#post-322590 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 20:38:57 +0000 rae 322590@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>This is why I prefer talking about more specific body shapes, as is done here on YLF. "Curvy"... It's such an imprecise word. I want to ask, "What kind of curves? Convex? Concave? Hyperbolic??" There are so many possible meanings that it seems silly to get upset over anyone being called curvy. I also take no offense to the use of "sturdy," since women are also termed "waif-like" with regularity. Although if people insist on being offended, I think that using more shape-descriptive terms like apple, pear, etc. is the solution. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/on-sart-today-a-debate-over-the-word-curvy#post-322589 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 20:36:40 +0000 MsMary 322589@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Here's her blog: <a href="http://nyheter24.se/modette/angelicablick" rel="nofollow">http://nyheter24.se/modette/angelicablick</a></p> <p>I don't see anything but a very slim young lady! </p>