https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Sat, 18 Apr 2026 02:23:03 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style/page/2#post-1881875 Tue, 23 Jan 2018 16:38:55 +0000 K.M. 1881875@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Coming to this thread late... but still a very interesting topic, as I've been smitten with this season's sculptural and oversized sweaters and extra widelegged pants (somewhat related to the article though the author never touches on it).</p> <p>My first reaction to the article was similar to this point made by <b>approprio</b>: <i>"Call me old-fashioned but when we talk about unconventional styling I look back fondly on the heyday of Martin Margiela and Comme de Garçons, none of which had anything to do with good or evil but had everything to do with beauty and disruption."</i></p> <p>In that we have already seen similar trends before! I thought also of Issey Miyake, and how those clothes were interesting almost as artworks, in their spatial/structural/sculptural explorations of form, fabric, etc. But we just have to look at movies and TV shows from the 80s to see a kind of "prairie girl" look (big long skirts, scrunched up voluminous socks and chunky shoes, oversized floppy sweaters...) that was part of the everyday across a variety of age and income ranges. Definitely not only a high-fashion statement.</p> <p>So to sum up, my thought on the NYT piece is: newspaper writers are in the business of writing "new" and "original" stories (I was once a newspaper writer...) and sometimes this means reinventing the wheel, or at least making others believe you've reinvented the wheel, or perhaps having such a short memory/short historical knowledge that you come to believe it too. </p> <p>At the same time, as an academic, I also appreciate that historical trends ebb and flow but are never exactly the same; neither in form nor in function. So yes, maybe there are new aesthetic or socio-cultural aspects that are unique about our moment, but at the same time it's not the huge thing the article makes it out to be.</p> <p>And I've been pining for some flowy, big-sleeved, turtlenecked, sculpturally folded thick sweaters for a while... It's simply more fun to have such choices, as opposed to how it felt in the late 90s and 2000s, when everything was body-con all the time (this, coming from someone who likes the look and feel of body-con). </p> </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style/page/2#post-1861418 Fri, 17 Nov 2017 21:40:46 +0000 Jenni NZ 1861418@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Actually, it's because of my strict religious upbringing ( Presbyterian Protestant, NZ version rooted in Church of Scotland with associated thriftiness and Protestant work ethic as well) that my first association with the word modest is in the covering up, hiding your body, not "tempting" the male gender sense. But my second association with it is in the sense Sal and L'Abeille refer to, as in not ostentatious or flaunting either one's wealth or one's achievements. And that fits both with my upbringing and with NZ culture.<br /> I agree with those who wear those clothes if they want to wear them and not for some other perceived reason by the writer of the article. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style/page/2#post-1861415 Fri, 17 Nov 2017 21:26:54 +0000 Jenni NZ 1861415@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Funny! Old-fashioned wouldn't be a word I'd use in relation to you Approprio! Your knowledge of design, cutting edge etc etc is right up there in my book! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style/page/2#post-1861397 Fri, 17 Nov 2017 19:49:57 +0000 approprio 1861397@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p><b>LaPed, l'Abielle:</b>&nbsp;that's a very interesting point, thanks! I'd missed any explicit link in the article between ethical fashion and virtue-signalling, but now that you mention it, absolutely it makes sense. </p> <p>The Kinfolk aesthetic is fine for people who like that sort of thing, but as a gesture towards sustainability it's about as effective as papal indulgences or carbon offsets for the 4WD. It&nbsp;makes the wearer feel good about herself (as it should) but it doesn't change much of anything else. It's far too niche.</p> <p>The basic problem, which we're all facing, is aligning who we need to be on the outside with who we'd like to be on the inside. Few women would want to look like a sex object all the time, but mistaking the opposite for conservative ideals of female virtue opens a whole other can of worms. That kind of messaging has nothing to do with it for most of us. We're just wearing what we want to wear and going about our business as best we can.</p> <p>There are ways of doing fashion, sustainable or otherwise, that aren't politicised, don't organise us into these neat little boxes, and don't have us policing women's bodies, style choices or personal freedom. Sadly, there's not much of that about right now. Call me old-fashioned but when we talk about unconventional styling I look back fondly on the heyday of Martin Margiela and Comme de Garçons, none of which had anything to do with good or evil but had everything to do with beauty and disruption.&nbsp;</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style/page/2#post-1861259 Fri, 17 Nov 2017 00:52:49 +0000 Sal 1861259@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>thanks Skylurker for update: </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style/page/2#post-1861220 Thu, 16 Nov 2017 22:13:30 +0000 L'Abeille 1861220@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thanks for setting me straight, skylurker, and I'm very pleased to hear that. I was hoping it didn't stand.<br />Now if only the Quebec situation could get sorted too. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style/page/2#post-1861194 Thu, 16 Nov 2017 20:20:29 +0000 skylurker 1861194@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Don’t have an opinion on modest dressing, but I need to say : L’Abeille, there’s no law in France against « burkinis ». A few municipalities issued bans in Summer 2016, causing a big controversy (so big it blew as far as Canada, apparently). The bans were judged illegal by the national administrative court. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style/page/2#post-1861131 Thu, 16 Nov 2017 16:41:52 +0000 LaPed 1861131@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Oh, I wish I had more time today!&nbsp;</p> <p><b>approprio </b>-- I totally get what you're saying about women in public/being visible is inherently subversive, and I agree that dressing is often a form of speech for the voiceless, etc. </p> <p>More than subversion in that sense though, what I'm really trying to talk about is the way a certain class of women are "re-purposing" modesty. </p> <p>Like <b>l'abeille</b> says: "I think that in the Bible (old and new testaments) all references to "modesty", particularly in dress, refer to the avoidance of ostentation and flaunting of wealth, as in jewels, sumptuous clothing, and elaborate hairstyles possibly achieved by slave labour. So the closest thing in our world would be the movement for ethical consumption."</p> <p>This is what struck me too (and obviously this is just one more example of the sort of appropriation that the fashion industry relies on) -- that discord between modesty in the full sense of humility/not being ostentatious, and designer clothes from The Row etc being described as "modest". What I'm trying to get at is that, in turning modesty into a couture value, one that signals not just wealth but a particular degree of, I dunno, cultural literacy, it subverts the original meaning of the word. Does that make sense?&nbsp;</p> <p>Oh, and Grechen wrote up a little blog response to this article too, which echoes a lot of the sentiments in this thread:&nbsp;<a rel="nofollow" href="http://grechenscloset.com/on-dressing-modestly/">http://grechenscloset.com/on-dressing-modestly/</a></p> <p>(I'd say she's actually part of that IG/blogoshphere class of people using modest dress to signal something other than modesty, and she does actually touch on that a bit in her post.) </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style/page/2#post-1861086 Thu, 16 Nov 2017 14:25:34 +0000 cloud9 1861086@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I’m just sad that (1). a good word like MODEST is associated with negative connotations. Also Can’t understand why modest dressing has religion undertone. Religion use the word LOVE a lot too, I don’t see the mass think it has religious undertone??? (2). I fear of wearing a scarf around my head (for being cold, or bad hair day) would be mistaken as being Muslim and be potentially a target for harassment or worse even attack. What has the world come to?</p> <p>Every individual has his/her own preference, can we just accept that. Can I just wear something I like without being judged? </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style/page/2#post-1860886 Wed, 15 Nov 2017 21:38:04 +0000 Sal 1860886@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Yes L'Abeille - I agree.&nbsp; How can Designer clothes be modest?&nbsp; It is a contradiction...they can be unstructured, covered, loose, unembellished but wearing Celine or Vetements is not "modest"?</p> <p>And I agree entirely with your comment 2b. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style/page/2#post-1860876 Wed, 15 Nov 2017 21:24:46 +0000 L'Abeille 1860876@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>This conversation has now gone in enough directions that I feel I can now toss out my (not necessarily related) thoughts without taking us further off the rails than we already are!</p> <p>Comment 1, it is rarely referred to, but actually I think that in the Bible (old and new testaments) all references to "modesty", particularly in dress, refer to the avoidance of ostentation and flaunting of wealth, as in jewels, sumptuous clothing, and elaborate hairstyles possibly achieved by slave labour. So the closest thing in our world would be the movement for ethical consumption.</p> <p>Comment 2, it is hard for me to read these ideas without being reminded of the recent Quebec law mandating that anyone receiving public services (like buses or libraries) must have an uncovered face. It seems to be pointedly targeting Muslim women. and once again using rhetoric about "oppression" to circumscribe a woman's life even further. I am happy to read about the protests in Montreal (I think my daughter is involved) where protesters stand at bus stops with faces covered (which frankly is a pretty common thing in Canadian winters).</p> <p>Comment 2b, it is also reminiscent of the law in France against whatever they called the bikini burka or burka swimsuit. It strikes me as offensive to mandate that women bare AS MUCH of their bodies as possible in order to meet community standards. How is this not oppression? And how is it going to improve the lives of women who may already have little choice? They won't remove their clothing, they will stay home from the beach. Who wins? </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style/page/2#post-1860860 Wed, 15 Nov 2017 20:09:12 +0000 Sal 1860860@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Maybe off topic but an interesting word modest...</p> <p>Mostly here it would mean being the opposite of boastful, being humble...&nbsp; as in&nbsp;<i>"Richie McCaw is modest about his achievements as a rugby player".</i></p> <p>A house or car might also be described as modest if it is not too large or ostentatious, but very functional (and it has a spic and span air to it in my mind, clean and tidy, and not messy).&nbsp; as in "<i> The family chose to live in a modest sized home with one car"</i></p> <p>Modest clothing is clothing that is not showing off the body, nor overtly sexual, or covered.....&nbsp; yet when I google modest clothing the links point to cute, sweet, trendy shops.....</p> <p>The word to me has a moral overtone..... both in a positive way (being modest about hiding your achievements) and maybe a slightly smug way at times.&nbsp; It is about playing down what you have......maybe deliberately or maybe subconsciously.</p> <p>Or am I reading too much into it? </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style/page/2#post-1860855 Wed, 15 Nov 2017 19:50:40 +0000 Gaylene 1860855@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thumbs up to everything Approprio and Greyscale said!</p> <p>For me, the article went off the rails when it tried to equate a particular style with modesty and, even worse, religious convictions. Surprise, surprise—could it be a woman just likes the FEEL of neutral-toned, loosely fitting clothes draped on her body? Maybe dressing in longer, looser, architectural layers makes her feel happy, just like another woman could feel good wearing ruffles, bright colors, a pile of pearls, or towering heels? Wanting to feel beautiful and feminine doesn’t mean we all gravitate to Spanx and stilletos for a date night. </p> <p>What continually fascinates me, though, is why loose-fitting, neutral clothing causes North American fashion commenters to endlessly opine about religiosity, modesty, or radical feminism as being at the heart of this look. I’ve never hesitated to go topless on a European beach, walk around a woman’s locker room in the nude, or show off a pretty bra in a plunging neckline, so reading articles which equate my decision to wear Eileen Fisher and COS with a desire for “modesty” make me burst out laughing. To my mind, articles like this one reveal more about the mindset and cultural predispositions of the writer than of a woman who chooses the clothing. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style/page/2#post-1860836 Wed, 15 Nov 2017 18:49:59 +0000 Jenni NZ 1860836@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>In Morocco would you be harassed if you *didn't* wear a headscarf? And if you would, who by? </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style/page/2#post-1860796 Wed, 15 Nov 2017 16:50:39 +0000 approprio 1860796@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p><b>fashiontern</b>: I'm taking issue with the idea that using clothing subversively is the preserve of power and privilege, when in fact very often the opposite is true. </p> <p>Almost everywhere in the world, simply being a woman in public is a subversive act one way or another, hence fashion. Historically, this has been the only means of expression available to the most marginalised of people, and it makes things like the hijab vitally important as a cultural signifier. And for a woman in the public eye, the power to be seen may be the only power available to her. Princess Diana springs to mind.</p> <p>To put it another way, I'm off to Morocco next week and I'll be packing a few headscarves. Maybe this is appropriation, or maybe it's respectful to the culture I'm visiting. I could be contributing to my own oppression here but actually I just want to wear a headscarf and not be harassed.&nbsp; </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style#post-1860759 Wed, 15 Nov 2017 13:41:10 +0000 RobinF 1860759@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>What a great discussion! Personally I am torn about the whole concept of "modest dressing". Too often the term is used as a reprimand to women who someone feels is dressing in a way that is too tempting to men. And that goes along with the comments above that men should learn to control themselves (and feels a bit like blaming the victim - but I guess that is another subject). I tend to dress quite modestly myself but that doesn't mean I don't want to look good or stylish. I was always annoyed by the show "What not to Wear" and their assumption that women should always want to look sexy. And I have found it interesting that this season of "Project Runway" has a designer who designs "modest" clothes but I often forget it because they aren't really that much different.&nbsp;</p> <p>That being said, I feel like these designer looks are just part of making something different than what we have been seeing. Maybe it will catch on, maybe not. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style#post-1860755 Wed, 15 Nov 2017 13:14:35 +0000 Stagiaire Fash 1860755@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Approprio, I think you are agreeing with La Ped’s points. For example, you correctly point to the higher portions of elected officials who are women in places where a headscarf is frequently worn; LP said that the US is just starting to wrap its head around the fact that wearing one may be a personal choice, not a sign of oppression.<br /> There are, of course, connections between personal power and national-level power relations, but they are not synonymous. Reappropriating a type of style in a subversive way is different from wearing it traditionally, and exercises a different type of power than standing for election does. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style#post-1860736 Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:18:01 +0000 approprio 1860736@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p><i></i><i></i><i>The author barely acknowledges the degree of cultural capital required to subvert modesty -- because that's really the interesting part here, how women are choosing to re-adopt rules that were previously deemed oppressive.&nbsp;<b>But for the most part women who have that choice are women with a lot of power and privilege of their own</b></i></p> <i><br /> </i> <p><i></i>No disrespect, <b>LaPed</b>. I appreciate your thoughtful commentary but I'm not sure I agree with this observation.</p> <p>It's true that modest dressing as fashion can be a symbol of privilege, but that's only insofar as it's (a) fashion, which is elitist by definition and (b) native wear for women of the creative classes.&nbsp;However, as <b>Deborah</b> points out, for many it can simply be a question of personal preference. We like it, it suits us and it's easy to wear.&nbsp;</p> <p>The implications are that modest dressing only empowers privileged women, or that white Western women are by definition more relatively powerful than women of other cultures, and it's just not true. If you believe this is the case, try comparing our statistics for women elected to the highest office, or women studying STEM, with those of Africa or central Asia.&nbsp;The bottom line is that some women are emancipated and others aren't, but dressing modestly isn't necessarily a reliable indicator one way or the other. </p> <p>The headscarf is a good example of this. The assumption among many Western women, not only in the US, but here in Europe too, is that it's a symbol of female oppression. Some feminists would say the same about high heels and foundation garments. All can be symbols of oppression, but they can be emancipating too. It depends on the context.</p> <p>When free to do so, a woman chooses to put on a headscarf or high heels for all kinds of reasons, and only some of them are about religion or patriarchy. Maybe she does it to feel confident, maybe she does it to earn some respect. Maybe she wants to protect her hair or maybe she needs that extra couple of inches to look her male colleagues in the eye. Maybe she's required to wear either for professional reasons.</p> <p>I should also point out that I've been down the body-con/figure flattering route and while it can be fun, there's that small matter of unwanted attention. As <b>shevia</b> says, they should learn to control themselves or wear blindfolds.&nbsp;</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style#post-1860735 Wed, 15 Nov 2017 09:55:22 +0000 rachylou 1860735@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>You know, Deborah, you just made me think that sometimes people are afraid of their own conventionality... maybe people like fashion commentators who are surrounded by the adventurous... </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style#post-1860675 Wed, 15 Nov 2017 02:02:48 +0000 Jenni NZ 1860675@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thanks LaP that if you feel there could be something particularly American about this then you may not be too offended by my "Only in America" head-shaking comment! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style#post-1860671 Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:34:29 +0000 Deborah 1860671@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>While it is a very interesting article, I wonder why it's not ok to just dress as you choose without all the analysis.&nbsp; &nbsp;As some of you will know, I am rather fond of non conventionally attractive outfits so quite a bit of what I saw in the article I find very appealing.&nbsp; I am a huge fan of the Olsen girls :)&nbsp; &nbsp;The 'world' seems to struggle with anything that doesn't fit the conventionally attractive box.</p> <p>I like Sal's comment about wearing what is authentic to us, I think that has a lot to do with our choices especially as we become confident in ourselves.&nbsp; Body con looks are not 'me', oversized shapeless number on the other hand.... </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style#post-1860661 Wed, 15 Nov 2017 00:15:32 +0000 Anonymous 1860661@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>This has been a fascinating discussion. &nbsp;Thank you for posting. &nbsp; </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style#post-1860625 Tue, 14 Nov 2017 21:49:08 +0000 LaPed 1860625@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Okay, I have to run (this week is shaping up to be ridiculous), but:</p> <p>*It does seem to me that there might be something particularly American about this. We're pretty tangled up in our Puritan roots.&nbsp;</p> <p>*I agree that religion is only one piece of the modesty puzzle (and I don't think modesty is necessarily the right word, but can't find a better one right now), and is overemphasized in this article. But, look, US liberals are just figuring out that it's possible for a woman to wear a hijab by choice, not because she's been coerced. So, our cultural literacy has a ways to go, and maybe re-examining our assumptions about people's cultural and religious practices is actually necessary.</p> <p>*The author barely acknowledges the degree of cultural capital required to subvert modesty -- because that's really the interesting part here, how women are choosing to re-adopt rules that were previously deemed oppressive. But for the most part women who have that choice are women with a lot of power and privilege of their own.</p> <p>*I think the covered-up phenomenon has a reach that extends beyond the prairie dress examples. Think full-length trousers instead of cropped, crewneck tops instead of open necklines, full skirts replacing pencils. It's been a pretty body-con century so far, and I do appreciate that this is part of the natural pendulum swing of the fashion market. But fashion ebb and flow is always informed by other sociopolitical currents...</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style#post-1860496 Tue, 14 Nov 2017 03:55:59 +0000 Jaime 1860496@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I live among Orthodox Jews that dress "modestly" including a number of women in my family gained since marriage, so I come to these sorts of articles with a lot of baggage. There are worlds where the goal seems to be how to dress as "attractively" as possible while still adhering to the rules. There are others that feel that these rules are freeing for some of the reasons suggested in the article. I don't want to even get into that here. </p> <p>But since I am in the middle of rereading Dietland (novel not diet book- highly recommended) I will bring up a subplot where some feminist terrorists suggest that men who cannot stop objectifying women wear blindfolds. Or worse. As much as I try to understand nuanced arguments on this topic, that has always been my gut reaction to modesty rules.</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style#post-1860445 Tue, 14 Nov 2017 00:09:54 +0000 Anonymous 1860445@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>When I was a teen, our church pastor came and told me that my sundress was arousing the boys, and he asked me not to wear it anymore. It was a sundress, made by my mom, that was below knee length and had wide shoulder straps and a matching bolero jacket that I always wore with it. The whole thing was ridiculous,</p> <p>I prefer to dress modestly, but I’m not going to cover my body from head to toe. Boys and men need to be held accountable for their actions. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style#post-1860433 Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:30:01 +0000 rachylou 1860433@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>...I will note that I have found most people during my life time hate it when you button the top button of your shirt. I’m thinking of our Bernard here on the forum... I believe the people around him IRL are always telling him to wear his collars open... </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style#post-1860427 Mon, 13 Nov 2017 22:51:48 +0000 binkle 1860427@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>A little too navel-gazey for me, admittedly I couldn't make it thru the whole article.</p> <p> My initial reaction was, it's all just trickle down from astronomically expensive The Row. Those two gals have been dressing this way for many years.</p> <p>WWD called it "plain Jane" back in the 80's, refering to Eskandar, Eileen Fisher, and others of that era who featured voluminous shapes. (and see Boy George videos).</p> <p>Plus westen brands now are tapping into the Muslim market (and Orthodox Jew). The Modist (imagine modest Net-a-Porter) or Mimu Maxi.</p> <p>Fashion is a constant pendulum, with. the highest end hitting extremes every 20-30 years or so. The rest of us make do around the middle.</p> <p>And some of us just don't like the comments our boobs and butts cause. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style#post-1860414 Mon, 13 Nov 2017 21:46:17 +0000 Gmae 1860414@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>We have a ton of these type of <a rel="nofollow" href="https://modestmollyboutique.com">modest / sexy boutiques</a>&nbsp;popping up where I live. Here are a few I've noticed :<br />Sexy Modest<br />Junie Blake<br />Mika Rose&nbsp;</p> <p>I honestly think dressing modestly is a good thing as it typically helps women to avoid self-objectification. This allows them to worry less about their uncovered body and more about&nbsp;our awareness towards our happiness, progress, and livelihood.</p> <p> </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style#post-1860411 Mon, 13 Nov 2017 21:35:03 +0000 MsMaven 1860411@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Fashion term's observation: "This is very different from modesty, <i>which puts the burden on the object to not arouse the viewer."</i></p> <p> This is the crux of the problem with the word modest for me: from the time I was a teenager this message has been drummed into young women: it's your fault if he gets aroused. Even a bare shoulder or arm is too much for some guys.&nbsp;</p> <p>The same message drummed into guys. It's her responsibility to keep YOU in line.</p> <p>The emphasis on modesty and covering up has gotten much worse in my old home town culture. I hate to see the women in my family who still there dressed in ugly, baggy clothes. Yet I am still careful about what I wear when I visit. I do have this problem about feeling the cold . . .&nbsp;</p> <p>On the other hand, I think a beautiful dress is much more interesting than a bony rib cage. Can't wait for that fashion to pass as far as award shows.&nbsp;</p> <p>All the stories of past sexual assaults have gotten to me today.&nbsp; </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/nyt-piece-on-the-rise-of-modest-style#post-1860398 Mon, 13 Nov 2017 20:48:49 +0000 Sal 1860398@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p><i>&nbsp;I want the option to be perceived non-sexually in the way that men are, even if our culture makes that impossible.</i></p> <p>Thanks Greyscale for your succinct summing up of my feelings too - especially strong when I was working part time jobs, travelling, and starting my career.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>I have mixed reactions to the article:</p> <p>1) Fashion designers change their looks regularly - here are two sets of designs by Celine (I think from 15/16 collections but I might have that wrong).&nbsp; One set is much more body con than the other.&nbsp; So I am delighted that designers are offering more modest, unstructured, interesting looks but I wonder if this is just the swings and roundabouts of fashion rather than a statement on society?<br />2) Some people choose to dress in loose covered looks despite any trends - because it is authentic to them.<br />3) I am pleased for women in religious communities that there is increased choice of fashion that meets their criteria.&nbsp; Covering your shoulders and knees and hair can be done in all sorts of ways, traditional and modern.</p> <p>Where I am conflicted is my own relationship with the "sacred feminine" and being proud of my body - curves, bulges, muscles and all.&nbsp; I don't think I have an answer though. </p>