https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Mon, 11 May 2026 11:23:22 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment#post-39308 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:15:48 +0000 dee2do 39308@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Gee I feel so ignorant. I don't know what PPL or Battlestar Gallactica is.... But I'll find out right now. Thanks for enlightening me, too. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment#post-39288 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:40:18 +0000 marianne 39288@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>AJ, you make a very interesting point. Granted, I never was into fashion magazines, so it's possible I missed something, but it is true that a lot of information comes from your mother. Mine was always a PPL guardian. She enforced the same rule as Shiny mentioned with men's pants - that they should break in front while you're standing. In the 90s it was hard for me to find pants that were long enough, and I did compromise a few times, and she pointed it out. She is also very good about caring for clothes. However, she was no help with other things, like colors or flattering styles. For example, I was always attracted to high collars and it took me a long time to figure out that I don't have enough neck length for that. She would always say it look fine. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment#post-39274 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:40:58 +0000 tarzy 39274@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Shiny - I have the opposite problem. I have large feet in proportion to my height (8 1/2 shoe, 5"4") so my feet always stick way out, no matter what style pants I wear. This even happens with heels. This frustrates me, because my feet always look so huge and shoes don't look quite as cute. I think it's one reason I don't love flats - they stick out like I'm wearing skis. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment#post-39272 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:31:22 +0000 shiny 39272@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Lucy, I agree it's desireable to look like you have long legs - but what about looking like you have no feet? I will have to scrounge up a celeb photo to show what I mean. It just seems off to me, and more like a fashion trend. I can't help but think that a bit of your shoe should show at the bottom of your pants. But as I said above, I'm not sure if that's merely a product of my age and when I grew up. </p> <p>I definetly *do* like my skinnies and straight legs with lots of scunch though... I left them delberately long. But, shoes always show with those, because you scrunch them. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment#post-39263 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:43:34 +0000 Lucy 39263@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I had never heard of PPL until visting this site, but I wouldn't consider it a trend, since 1. it applies to any style of pants (except ankle-length or capri, of course) regardless of the material or how dressy or casual it is and 2. is universally flattering. I will be very surprised if having long legs (or at least looking like you do) goes out of style. ( :<br /> That being said, I may eat may words in few years. . . </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment#post-39259 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:01:38 +0000 Amanda 39259@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Shiny -- you and I are clearly the same age -- I was having (mostly bad) fashion flashbacks of my own outfits growing up as I read your personal fashion history! Amanda </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment#post-39247 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:34:34 +0000 shiny 39247@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>The PPL issue is a fascinating one to me too. </p> <p>I've always known that men's dress slacks are supposed to break in the front (near the ankle) - which means they are intended to be long. I think I learned this somewhere along the line as a kid, watching my dad get his business suits tailored. </p> <p>As for women's slacks and jeans, reaching far back into my memory:</p> <p>- in grade school (70's) we wore light-wash bell bottom jeans and I seem to recall they were supposed to drag along the ground, driving my mother batty because they'd get all ratty on the ends. Until we grew a few inches, then they'd become floods and we'd want new pants but my mother would hold off, driving us girls crazy! If you wore such "floods" you'd get mercilessly teased on the playground!!!</p> <p>- in junior high (late 70s/early 80s) bell bottoms went out of fashion overnight. Everyone switched to dark wash straight legs or cordoroys in a myriad of colors (from the Gap). You wore them tucked into your cowboy boots, so having them on the short side was more convenient. </p> <p>- in high school (early 80s) bootcuts and the first designer denim (remember Jordache?) came into fashion, just as knee-high boots went *out* of fashion. But there was also the whole preppy trend, wearing basic Levi's or Gap jeans, but requiring you to cuff your jeans a few inches. Either way, you wanted to show off your argyle socks and your docksiders (with the laces artfully tied). So short pants were definetly preferable. (Also you wore a pastel button down shirt with a sweater wrapped around your neck just so.)</p> <p>- in college (mid 80s) skinny jeans (often acid washed) came into fashion - preferably ankle length with zippers at the ankle! You wouldn't want them too long, or the zipper would bunch up funny. I remember hating this fashion trend because it was nearly impossible for me to find zippered pants just the right length. </p> <p>- in my early career days (late 80s, early 90s) it was all about the regulation Nancy Reagen Red Power Suit with Ginormous shoulder pads (bigger the better), knee-length skirt, nude pantyhose, and high heels. Don't remember wearing jeans during this phase. On weekends, I'd wear a dress to go out or (shudder) neon colored sweatsuit (one with Shoulder pads!!!!!) to run errands. </p> <p>I must've had jeans or pants to wear on weekends.... just can't recall ... except one pair of high-waisted black dress pants... but I forget how long they were.... oh yes, now I do remember high-waisted, pleated slacks - that were skinny at the ankles. You wanted those ankle length. Worn with heels. And... omg... yes, I seem to recall "mom jeans" before I was a mom: light wash, high-waisted, skinny at the ankles. </p> <p>- Stay-at-home mom years from 1992 to 1997: I never wore jeans. If I was out and about, I'd wear black pants that were cut like jeans - more stretchy. Or I'd wear sweats, the kind you could buy at Wal-Mart. Or I'd wear stirrup pants!!!!! Lots and lots of stirrup pants with oversized sweaters. This was a dark, dark era... but I do have to say, those stirrup pants were quite comfy!</p> <p>- Restarting career era from 1997 to say 2001 (when I was laid off in the dot.com bust): I learned to wear dress slacks as my nod to "business casual." Length? I'd have them break at the ankle, if at all possible. This is also the period of time I gravitated towards khakis for weekend wear. I had many khakis from the Gap that were their "Ankle" length... which on me is long if I wear flat shoes, too short if I wear heels. Which I would anyway. </p> <p>- Starting-to-get-a-clue era (2002 to 2007): still wore khakis. Tried a zillion jeans, none of them very flattering. Still wore dress slacks to work. Paid no attention at all to PPL. I do recall having a pair of perfect black dress slacks (still have them) that annoyed me endlessly because they were - guess what - PPL!!! I kept meaning to get them hemmed, because, especially when wearing strappy sandals, the back of the pants would get stuck in the shoes. All the rest of my dress slacks were most definetly NOT PPL. But I thought they were. Seeing my history.... who could blame me? </p> <p>- Style makeover era (2007 to present): slow dawning that pants are *supposed* to be long! I think this did dawn on me earlier than finding YLF; it was YLF that spelled it out in writing. Before I found YLF, I had noticed that fashionable women were wearing their flared and wide leg jeans long enough to touch the ground, so no shoe showed at all. I still have to admit... part of me likes this look and considers it uber-trendy .... but part of me still thinks "what happened to her feet?" </p> <p>But yes, during my last closet rotation, I went through all my pants and tossed out any pants that were ankle length. GONE. I did keep a few slacks that are not touching the ground with heels - they are maybe 1 inch above the ground, long enough for ankle to not show, but short enough they don't get caught in the back of your heel, and don't get all dirty dragging on the ground either. </p> <p>So there you go.... personally, I think it's all a fashion thing, no more no less. I would bet money that sometime in the next 10 years, we will all be scrambling to hem our pants shorter! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment#post-39241 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 06:41:45 +0000 anne 39241@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Going back to AJ's question.</p> <p>Re PPL. Have dug around to find out opinions on this<br /> My 1970 edition of the Seventeen book of Fashion and Beauty ways to hem 1/2 inch above the floor<br /> My 1993 edition of Mary Spillane (CMB) Presenting Yourself A personal image guide for Women doesn't mention hemlength but shows examples of women's trousers not even covering the top of the back of the shoes.<br /> I read somewhere on the web recently that 1 inch above the floor was optimal.<br /> And for years I worked on the basis that you should hem to the top of the heel. Don't know where I got that idea but my Mum, who helps me hem still thought that a bit too long!</p> <p>As to the broader question, some people do just seem to pick up fashion things quickly, without having to devote much time to it. Maybe they just read the catalouges that come in the junk mail and that seems to be enough. Perhaps they have an easily dressed body type.</p> <p>I on the other hand have been reading advice on this sort of thing most of my life and still find it difficult. But I am both indecisive and an analytical type who likes to read around a subject If I am introducing solids I read up it on several different books. If I reading up on the history of a country I like to read several books from differing perspectives even when it is just leisure reading (Maybe it is a history thing AJ - my Dad always teased my Mum for being a historian when she couldn't make her mind up) </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment#post-39239 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 05:51:53 +0000 Lena 39239@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Another BSG fan here! </p> <p>Judy, I'm also excited and sad at the same time! Eeep. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment#post-39236 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 04:41:58 +0000 judy 39236@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I think the new shows of Battlestar Galactica start in like a month...mid January? We're excited...but sad it's the last one! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment#post-39231 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 04:03:17 +0000 tarzy 39231@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Battlestar Galactica! Fracking incredible show! Go Starbuck! </p> <p>Sorry - I had to geek out for a moment there! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment#post-39229 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 03:21:31 +0000 Angie 39229@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Interesting aj. I'm thrilled the perfect pant lengths penny dropped. Better late than never, right? Spread the word! You must be super busy prepping for your long stay away. Please stay in touch and keep us posted. We’d love to hear from you while you’re abroad. </p> <p>Tamara your pant length stories are music to my ears </p> <p>Ha, Lena! I loved hearing why you were distracted! (btw, I’m a HUGE Battlestar Galactica fan as well. It’s simply a brilliant show). </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment#post-39214 Sun, 14 Dec 2008 22:05:32 +0000 Amanda 39214@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Lena -- love the tangent in your comment -- I watch Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles too (I'm a sucker for rogue robots, also love Battlestar Galactica). I didn't notice that the Shirley Manson character wore trousers that weren't PPL -- I'll have to pay more attention to her wardrobe. You'd think the wardrobe stylist would catch that -- or maybe we are supposed to recognize the terminators by their fashion faux pas! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment#post-39185 Sun, 14 Dec 2008 11:46:59 +0000 Laura 39185@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>aj, you are right that a lot of what you learn about style comes from your mom. Then later it comes from your friends. My mom is very good with clothes, very creative, and so was my grandmother. She loved clothes and made all of hers. She had a huge appreciation for fabric and I learned that from her. Still, even with women in my family who were far from clueless, there were many, many areas that I have been messing up my whole life (and I'm in my 40s too!). </p> <p>The part that bums me out most about this is how much money I wasted on ill-fitting or simply unattractive clothes. Thousands and thousands of dollars over the years! Ugh! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment#post-39182 Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:47:13 +0000 yublocka 39182@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Until YLF I never realised that PPL was basically down to the ground either. I'd say at least 50% of my pants break this rule. At 176cm (5"8) I am not that tall but struggle here in Australia to find pants long enough, at least at places I've tried in the past. I've kinda given up on buying pants here. I envy the "tall length" I so commonly see in US stores online!</p> <p>A year ago it'd be more like 75% of my pants broke this rule. Luckily I got a some new pants in Vietnam earlier this year and had a little tussle with the tailors there to get them made down to the ground. They were insisting it was too long but I told them I wanted to wear pants with heels (which I don't wear at all!!) Since this was pre-YLF for me, I don't know if I was doing it subconsciously because I could tell it looked better, or simply for the novelty factor of having pants that long!!! I'm glad I did though - I love my longer pants.</p> <p>Throughout this year I've given away or sold on eBay some pants that I've realised were just way too short on me to keep wearing.</p> <p>Petite gals this is something to be thankful for. Sure I save money in hemming, but there's pants I like otherwise but just can't buy. You can take up any hem, but you can't elongate something with no extra fabric!!! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment#post-39177 Sun, 14 Dec 2008 06:01:18 +0000 Lena 39177@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Before YLF I always struggled with length of tops for skirts and pants. Sometimes I would instinctively know that I needed shorter tops for skirts. And NOW I know why I felt uncomfortable and weird in pants and short sweaters. This was my AHA moment. </p> <p>Speaking of PPL, I'm beginning to develop an eye twitch for too short pants in movies, on TV and in magazines. For example, there is a character on Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles (played by Shirley Manson from Garbage). She's a terminator disguised as a high powered CEO and in her first episode she wore slacks that were definitely too short for her high heels. I kept getting distracted and couldn't take her seriously at all Now that I think about it, I can probably make up a back story how she is a robot from the future, so this is her very bad attempt at blending in? Hee. </p> <p>(I'm sorry for deviating off topic, AJ) </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment#post-39174 Sun, 14 Dec 2008 05:23:33 +0000 Sihaya 39174@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>What a great 'aha' - definitely explains part of my earlier cluelessness too. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment#post-39150 Sat, 13 Dec 2008 23:02:44 +0000 Anonymous 39150@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Very interesting aj. That is enlightening for sure.<br /> My mom always told me my pants were too big but I didn't listen to her. I just wanted to be comfortable. All I can say is thank goodness for stretch in jeans so I don't have to wear my pants too big anymore. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/moment-of-enlightenment#post-39141 Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:52:38 +0000 Amanda 39141@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Hi everyone -- I haven't been posting much lately but I've been reading. I finished up my comprehensive exams in November, took two weeks off to visit family in Florida and am now rushing around getting ready to leave the country right after new year's. Whew!</p> <p>But I had a "moment of enlightenment" last week that I had to post. After finding YLF, I've wondered how it is that some people know these fashion things -- like PPL and skirt vs. pants top lengths and more -- and I made it all the way into my 40s without knowing them. Was I not paying attention? Did I not read Seventeen magazine enough as a teenager? Are people just more intuitively fashionable than me? </p> <p>In the PPL department, I figured that I just got used to pants that were too short because I grew fast as a teenager and have long legs as an adult and it was difficult to find longer lengths. But last week my mom, who is visiting me, looked at my PPL jeans and said "you need to hem your jeans, those are too long, they almost touch the ground in the back." I explained that they were the proper length for pants and thought "aha, that explains a lot!" </p>