https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/link-to-a-nice-post-by-clinton-kelly-of-what-not-to-wear Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Sat, 04 Apr 2026 18:09:40 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/link-to-a-nice-post-by-clinton-kelly-of-what-not-to-wear#post-1226261 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 05:29:01 +0000 rabbit 1226261@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>You are all right, you are still a player in the game even if you don't know about the Matrix. &nbsp;</p> <p>On rereading after taking some medicine for a fever, I realized my head is a little fuzzy and that CK is advocating empowering women by teaching them how to play the game to their benefit <b>when they consciously chose to.</b> <b>&nbsp;Echo </b>you are right that there's nothing real about reality TV.</p> <p>I guess for me it's the 'shame' step that some of these shows (not specifically speaking to WNTW) add in to the mix to boost drama that makes me sad.</p> <p>I think it's possible to be interested in fashion and personal presentation&nbsp;while still questioning how it is packaged&nbsp;sometimes&nbsp;and what some of the inadvertent messages are saying. &nbsp; &nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/link-to-a-nice-post-by-clinton-kelly-of-what-not-to-wear#post-1226131 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 01:52:15 +0000 rachylou 1226131@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I say, 'location, location, location.' My town and its neighbors restrict big stores. If I stay in town, I have to go to a sock shop to get socks. It has a kind of flattening effect on messaging thru dress. In the City - and ok it's one big run-on metroplex - ignore that for argument's sake - clothing as message is the overwhelming rule. So much is available, you're always making choices, and the reasons you choose one thing over another are not about basics. In some ways you have to work hard to schlep it. Why would you do that, if not to say something? I don't know how a person opts out of the game, to be honest. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/link-to-a-nice-post-by-clinton-kelly-of-what-not-to-wear#post-1226102 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 01:28:26 +0000 Caro in Oz 1226102@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Agreeing with Janet &amp; Echo.</p> <p>I love the quote below too </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/link-to-a-nice-post-by-clinton-kelly-of-what-not-to-wear#post-1226097 Fri, 18 Apr 2014 01:15:30 +0000 Echo 1226097@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Except a person needs to give their permission to put themselves on the telly. You can secretly video and ambush as many people as you like, and if they refuse, you cannot air it. If they refuse your makeover, you need to find another subject. If they refuse to allow you into their homes to go through their closet, too bad, you lose.</p> <p>So the people on these shows CHOOSE this. They aren't poor, helpless victims. "Reality shows" aren't real - not even the fashion shows.&nbsp;</p> <p>And I agree completely that each day we get dressed we choose how we want the world to view us. Choosing to opt out is valid, but that carries consequences in how others respond to us just like every other choice does. We can rail against "society's expectations" as much as we like, but the fact is that we all (to some extent) buy into the values of the society we live in. And even if we don't, it doesn't matter; the judging will occur anyway. So most of us choose to "play the game" in some way.</p> <p>And like Janet pointed out, the members of this board (myself included) should be the very last people to begrudge the standards of society. We are reading and participating in a STYLE forum - that's about as opted IN as it gets! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/link-to-a-nice-post-by-clinton-kelly-of-what-not-to-wear#post-1225942 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 22:34:19 +0000 cciele 1225942@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I don't care, I'm going to keep wearing my Miramar sweatpants ;)</p> <p>But seriously, I agree with the point about being judged by appearance. And goes deeper than the clothes, right? Gender, race, weight -- all come into play, consciously or subconsciously. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/link-to-a-nice-post-by-clinton-kelly-of-what-not-to-wear#post-1225925 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 22:11:00 +0000 Lyn D. 1225925@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Interesting thread.<br />I can see that this judging on first impressions can be valid, especially when you are looking for a life-partner.<br />&nbsp;But generally we do need to look deeper than fashion to see if someone is potentially compatible on a deeper level.<br />As for friends and workmates, I think we are far more un-judgy- It is with OURSELVES that we sometimes need to back-off and accept as we are! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/link-to-a-nice-post-by-clinton-kelly-of-what-not-to-wear#post-1225916 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 21:53:20 +0000 Anonymous 1225916@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I agree with Amy Shouse that the ambush makeover&nbsp;is really demoralizing and not very cool. Who wants to be ambushed about something so personal as how you look on national TV. However ( a pretty big however), I think that her article is just as sensational and written to get a rise from people as the ambush shows are. I read Clinton Kelly's response more that we should make a very conscious choice about how we dress, to&nbsp;not be mindless about it&nbsp;or ignore the messages that clothes can send. I agree with his&nbsp;whole 'pretty' notion but think using the word 'pretty' is wrong for many of us. I really don't care about 'pretty' but I do care that I project confidence and self-assuredness. I do not see anything wrong with sweatpants or dressing for comfort as long as it really is the message you want to convey&nbsp;- go for it. I believe most people when being honest with themselves would make a different choice.&nbsp; </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/link-to-a-nice-post-by-clinton-kelly-of-what-not-to-wear#post-1225912 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 21:45:41 +0000 rabbit 1225912@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I agree <b>Janet</b>, that knowing the rules is useful and making an informed decision about how much you want to use that knowledge as a tool. I'm not disagreeing with anything you've observed. &nbsp;</p> <p>I also agree with <b>Mo</b>&nbsp;that being observant at and&nbsp;beyond the level of clothes&nbsp;can help keep us safe and I remind myself to&nbsp;never disregard a sixth sense that tells you there's something a little funny about a situation. &nbsp;</p> <p>I think also assuming someone is 'ok' based purely on their clothes and appearance&nbsp;can&nbsp;run you&nbsp;into trouble. &nbsp;I've been robbed of far more money in hindsight&nbsp;by men in nice suits&nbsp;than in army pants .&nbsp; </p> <p>I'll take your word on CK - I only have seen one episode of the show and I'm mainly just reading it as a rebuttal to the original essay he's responding to.</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/link-to-a-nice-post-by-clinton-kelly-of-what-not-to-wear#post-1225897 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 21:26:09 +0000 Mo 1225897@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>To the part about being judgy and sizing up good vs bad people. &nbsp;BF and I were just talking about this 2 days ago. &nbsp;He is quick to size people up, and I warned him not to judge. &nbsp;His point was like Clinton's - judging keeps you safe. &nbsp;For instance, the guy at the gym last week with the army style&nbsp;pants tucked into his combat boots (along with several other, shall we say, ready to battle, indicators) was a person he said, "would likely have a knife on him at any given moment." &nbsp;Pretty fair guess honestly. &nbsp;I, on the other hand, tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and have been said to wear rose colored glasses on more than one occasion. &nbsp;I have also been robbed at gunpoint, and I never saw it coming. &nbsp;So, there is a balance in there somewhere.</p> <p>Overall, I like his post. &nbsp;I was a fan of the show, and I like him.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/link-to-a-nice-post-by-clinton-kelly-of-what-not-to-wear#post-1225876 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 20:58:46 +0000 Janet 1225876@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I dunno, rabbit. I think guys might get a little more pressure than you think. I've seen some pressure on certain young men close to me who needed to think about the image they project as they grow out of their college years. I have seen people in many fields -- from creative to corporate --&nbsp;whose appearance does make a difference in how they are perceived. And that's just applying this to professional life, to say nothing of attracting (or not wanting to attract) people as far as personal relationships go.</p> <p>I think we're all playing the game in one way or another, otherwise we wouldn't be reading a style forum. :-)&nbsp;</p> <p>I have not read the essay he responded to yet. I will do that later when I have more time. I am a fan of Clinton though. I agree with his points. Like they've said on the show, the truth is that people are judging all the time, and it's not fair but it's human. Making conscious choices and being aware of what our appearance says to other people is a valuable skill set in life, IMHO. Everyone is free to heed or ignore&nbsp;societal rules, but in knowing the rules, we are able to break them more knowledgeably and intentionally. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/link-to-a-nice-post-by-clinton-kelly-of-what-not-to-wear#post-1225838 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 19:59:51 +0000 rabbit 1225838@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Hmm.. I read both his essay and the 'Don't Make Me Over' essay he is responding to:&nbsp;<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.damemagazine.com/2014/04/15/dont-make-me-over">http://www.damemagazine.com/20.....ke-me-over</a></p> <p>I tend to agree more with the 'don't make me over' essay. &nbsp; I think in part he is making valid points and saying that he doesn't support the 'ambush' style makeover. &nbsp; But in my mind, yes people will judge you, and yes it's worth matching your goals to your effectiveness in realizing them (of course), but ultimately, there are more important things than physical appearance. &nbsp;</p> <p>He says,&nbsp;"I appreciate how tough to be a woman, the conflicting and undermining messages of societal pressures dictating how you should look; your brain interpreting this as saying, you&nbsp;aren't&nbsp;living up to your potential; and&nbsp;your body cleaving to your favorite pair of sweatpants like a life raft." </p> <p>That's a lot of projecting on his part&nbsp;for me. &nbsp; I don't usually connect&nbsp;'not living up to your potential' with looks. &nbsp;Physical health and strength is a part of it for me&nbsp;maybe, but isn't it more what you do with your life? &nbsp;</p> <p>If you are&nbsp;a guy and friends and family sit you down in an intervention it's about choosing a career&nbsp;not a haircut. ;)</p> <p>"So, the game is on. You have the choice to play it on your own terms, on society’s terms, or to opt out all together." &nbsp;</p> <p>WNTW helped women who wanted to play on society's terms, fair enough and props to them. &nbsp;But I think for myself&nbsp;I'd rather play it on my terms or opt out for&nbsp;awhile and focus on&nbsp;other games. :D</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/link-to-a-nice-post-by-clinton-kelly-of-what-not-to-wear#post-1225837 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 19:57:06 +0000 K. Period. 1225837@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>"[S]weatpants are sartorial mac &amp; cheese." &nbsp;Oh how I love Clinton Kelly! &nbsp;</p> <p>I think Clinton has a great perspective on why people dress poorly and the very human insecurities and motivations behind their choices. &nbsp;I've learned a lot about people by trying to understand why they are dressing in a certain way. &nbsp;I'm pretty sure that Stacy and Clinton are behind my realization that some people&nbsp;use unapproachable clothing as a barrier. &nbsp;Clinton and Stacy are awesome.&nbsp;</p> <p>Thanks for sharing this, Ummlila!&nbsp; </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/link-to-a-nice-post-by-clinton-kelly-of-what-not-to-wear#post-1225818 Thu, 17 Apr 2014 19:40:52 +0000 UmmLila (Lisa) 1225818@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>A relevant message to be sure and one that I can see the YLFers are all about:<br />"<span>Based on a stranger’s appearance, we know almost immediately whether we want to get closer to him or her or farther away. You’re judging people all day without realizing it: Is that a good guy or a bad guy? Would I ever in a million years consider dating that person? So, the game is on. You have the choice to play it on your own terms, on society’s terms, or to opt out all together. In my experience, many sweatpants-addicted women have decided not to play the game because they’re scared shitless of it.&nbsp;WNTW,&nbsp;at its core, taught women how to control the game, to control their non-verbal messaging, their image. <b>Each of us should ask ourselves,&nbsp;Is the message I’m sending to the rest of the world in line with who I am as a human being? P</b>eople will judge you based on your appearance. You can use that to your advantage or you can sit on the sidelines hoping that highly evolved strangers will take kindly to you. - See more at: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://damemagazine.com/2014/04/17/dont-hate-clinton-kelly-because-youre-beautiful#sthash.45PM7bmU.dpuf">http://damemagazine.com/2014/0.....45PM7bmU.d</a>"</span> </p>